Surinder Singh Parent: Living both in Ireland & UK

[raja.brit]

Dear Noajthan / Experienced Members,

Many thanks for your time and assistance in advance.

I (British) , finally obtained my mom's 5years Article 10 Residence Card (4EUFAM) in Irland and we have been living close to 1 year now.

I was thinking if I should apply for UK 5yrs Residence Card for my mother before Brexit without jeopardising my Irish Residency? But not sure if this is possible.

But my concern about moving to UK to secure mom's UK RC is that I will fail the 'Centre of Life' test as my wife still works and lives in the UK.

So I was wondering if the following would work? :

1. Quit my job in Ireland but take up a course for a year in an Irish college and also comprehensive health insurance to continue exercising EU Treat Right through Self- Sufficiency. My wife who works and lives in UK would support me.

2. Travel to the UK with my mother and straight away apply for UK Residence Card (taking into account mom can be absent for max 6 months in Ireland as per the EU Treaty Rights)

3. I will try to find a job in the UK while awaiting biometrics and after 4 months, requests our passports back and move back to Ireland (taking into account one can travel to Republic of Ireland, Isle of Man and Channel Islands during the processing of the application ) while awaiting a decision on mom's UK Residence Card.

4. Worst case, if my mother's UK RC is refused, my mom and I can atleast continue to live in Ireland without jeopardising our Irish Residency.

I look forward to hearing your thoughts.

Thanks and Best regards,
Raja

[Noetic]

Since your centre of life moving is the whole point of Surinder Singh I wouldn't think you'd get away with lying about living in two places.

Why not try getting everyone settled in Ireland as if they naturalise there they will automatically be allowed to live and work in the UK regardless of the EU.

[noajthan]

Dear Noajthan / Experienced Members,
...

1. Quit my job in Ireland but take up a course for a year in an Irish college and also comprehensive health insurance to continue exercising EU Treat Right through Self- Sufficiency. My wife who works and lives in UK would support me.

2. Travel to the UK with my mother and straight away apply for UK Residence Card (taking into account mom can be absent for max 6 months in Ireland as per the EU Treaty Rights)

3. I will try to find a job in the UK while awaiting biometrics and after 4 months, requests our passports back and move back to Ireland (taking into account one can travel to Republic of Ireland, Isle of Man and Channel Islands during the processing of the application ) while awaiting a decision on mom's UK Residence Card.

4. Worst case, if my mother's UK RC is refused, my mom and I can atleast continue to live in Ireland without jeopardising our Irish Residency.

I look forward to hearing your thoughts.

Thanks and Best regards,
Raja

1) UK does not recognise self-sufficient qualified persons under SS route.

With wife in UK you still fail centre of life test (as you probably do now).

2-4) Lot of messing about.

Simply apply for FP for mom from Eire.
If mom is granted FP then use it to enter UK.

Mom applies for optional RC in UK (its not a visa and is not mandatory).
Mom lives her life in UK with you all.

If you fail with FP application from Eire well hey ho, at least you are already in Eire.
Try again OR call wife over and live your life in Eire.

[Obie]

A Self-Sufficient returning National,may have a claim under EU law.

[noajthan]

A Self-Sufficient returning National,may have a claim under EU law.

Indeed - and well noted.
Its UK that plays hard ball with its local flavour of SS.

[raja.brit]

Dear Noetic, Noajthan and Obie,

Many thanks for your reply and time. Appreciate it muchly.

Dear Noajthan,

I would love to be able to apply for mom's UK EEA Family Permit, but is she eligible to apply?

Remember Hamza from this forum who moved his whole family COL was recently denied EEA FP for his parents for the following reason:

" According to EEA regulations 2006 clause 9 2(b) parents of British nationals are not applicable to get family permit."

The following was the thread:

http://www.immigrationboards.com/eea-ro ... l#p1392155

Please advise and I will be more than glad to apply.


Thanks and best regards,
Raja

[noajthan]

Dear Noetic, Noajthan and Obie,

Many thanks for your reply and time. Appreciate it muchly.

Dear Noajthan,

I would love to be able to apply for mom's UK EEA Family Permit, but is she eligible to apply?

...

Please advise and I will be more than glad to apply.

Thanks and best regards,
Raja

Ofcourse parents may apply for FP. They are family.
https://www.gov.uk/family-permit/surinder-singh
You just have to pass the somewhat controversial col and, under UK regime (uncompliant with EU law as it is), self-sufficiency does not make the cut.
But workers/selfemployed sponsors do.

Don't use unrepresentative cases as your model.
One flawed case proves nothing or, as my old aunty used to say, one chicken does not make a chicken nugget.

[raja.brit]

Ofcourse parents may apply for FP. They are family.
https://www.gov.uk/family-permit/surinder-singh
You just have to pass the somewhat controversial col and, under UK regime (uncompliant with EU law as it is), self-sufficiency does not make the cut.
But workers/selfemployed sponsors do.

Don't use unrepresentative cases as your model.
One flawed case proves nothing or, as my old aunty used to say, one chicken does not make a chicken nugget.

Oh grear. Thanks Noajthan. You are a super star!

I have a lot of docs for COL. Obviously UKVI will play hardball on my wife's status. Nevertheless, I am going to give it a go.

Im currently full time employed.

Appreciate your time and assistance.

I will keep you posted.

Thanks and best regards,
Manny

[noajthan]

Oh grear. Thanks Noajthan. You are a super star!

I have a lot of docs for COL. Obviously UKVI will play hardball on my wife's status. Nevertheless, I am going to give it a go.

Im currently full time employed.

Appreciate your time and assistance.

I will keep you posted.

Thanks and best regards,
Manny

No guarantees mind, you may have shot yourself in foot with wife remaining in UK.

And as you found with another member's case, HO doesn't take prisoners regardless of law.

Good luck.

[raja.brit]

No guarantees mind, you may have shot yourself in foot with wife remaining in UK.

And as you found with another member's case, HO doesn't take prisoners regardless of law.

Good luck.

Thanks Noajthan.

My wife will be staying with me for couple of months in Ireland from this December as she will be moving jobs.

I am planning to include her in my tenancy agreement and open a bank account possibly. I will apply when she is here and do you think it will make the case strong then?

Also is it true that we don't have to fill all the sections for Surinder Singh EEA FP applications?

Any recommendations would be appreciated. I will also search if I can find any thread.

Many thanks!

[noajthan]

Thanks Noajthan.

My wife will be staying with me for couple of months in Ireland from this December as she will be moving jobs.

I am planning to include her in my tenancy agreement and open a bank account possibly. I will apply when she is here and do you think it will make the case strong then?

Also is it true that we don't have to fill all the sections for Surinder Singh EEA FP applications?

...

In the context of UK col test your SS time in Ireland will start when wife joins you in-country.

Some sections of FP online form may not apply to SS applicants.

[Casa]

Have you continued to maintain a home in the UK during your time in Eire?

[raja.brit]

Have you continued to maintain a home in the UK during your time in Eire?

Thanks Noajthan and Casa for your response.

Casa,

Well not exactly. I rent a flat under my name and mom's name in Ireland and my wife rents a flat in her name in the UK

I visit her every 2 months. So nothing is registered in my name in the UK except for UK Bank Accounts which are in joint names.

And I don't have any joint accounts for me n wife in Ireland either.

[Casa]

Does you wife pay the outgoings for the UK flat from your joint bank account? Do you deposit funds into this joint account?

[raja.brit]

Does you wife pay the outgoings for the UK flat from your joint bank account? Do you deposit funds into this joint account?

Dear Casa,

Yes but its a bit tricky.

I have UK savings account and UK credit cards jointly with my wife. I use both UK debit and UK credits cards when I go to the UK. My wife usually pays her rent / UK bills from my UK savings joint accounts.

I also have Ireland saving account jointly with my mother and Ireland credit card. Yes, I do transfer funds from my Ireland joint account to UK joint account to pay my UK Credit Cards.

I hope its not too complicated

Many thanks!

[Casa]

In which case the HO may take the view that you have continued to maintain a home in the UK. This may affect your COL claim.

[raja.brit]

In which case the HO may take the view that you have continued to maintain a home in the UK. This may affect your COL claim.

I see your point. Appreciate your thoughts Casa.

Many thanks!

[noajthan]

In which case the HO may take the view that you have continued to maintain a home in the UK. This may affect your COL claim.

I see your point. Appreciate your thoughts Casa.

Many thanks!

Case may be made stronger when wife joins you (give up UK pad).
Then the SS adventure begins.

Nothing like dealing with HO on immigration matters to make you feel alive and 'living on the edge'.

[raja.brit]

In which case the HO may take the view that you have continued to maintain a home in the UK. This may affect your COL claim.

I see your point. Appreciate your thoughts Casa.

Many thanks!

Case may be made stronger when wife joins you (give up UK pad).
Then the SS adventure begins.

Nothing like dealing with HO on immigration matters to make you feel alive and 'living on the edge'.

Absolutely Noajthan.

You had mentioned earlier 'Some sections of FP online form may not apply to SS applicants', .. Would you kindly direct me the place where I can access information about the sections I need to avoid please?

Many thanks again!

[noajthan]

Absolutely Noajthan.

You had mentioned earlier 'Some sections of FP online form may not apply to SS applicants', .. Would you kindly direct the place where I can access information about the sections I need to avoid please?

Many thanks again!

I don't have clearance to access online form and not aware of such guidance;
can only suggest practice on paper version.
Its not exactly the same questions but can give an idea of what to expect.

[raja.brit]

Absolutely Noajthan.

You had mentioned earlier 'Some sections of FP online form may not apply to SS applicants', .. Would you kindly direct the place where I can access information about the sections I need to avoid please?

Many thanks again!

I don't have clearance to access online form and not aware of such guidance;
can only suggest practice on paper version.
Its not exactly the same questions but can give an idea of what to expect.

Thank you again and appreciate your input Noajthan. Cheers!