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Application and AR Refused, Please Help!

Only for UK Tier 1 (Entrepreneur) points system. This route is now closed to new applicants.

Moderators: Casa, John, ChetanOjha, archigabe, CR001, push, JAJ, ca.funke, Amber, zimba, vinny, Obie, EUsmileWEallsmile, batleykhan, meself2, geriatrix

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karan13
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Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2016 12:44 pm

Application and AR Refused, Please Help!

Post by karan13 » Fri Nov 11, 2016 1:44 pm

Hi guys,

i will be grateful for any assistance.

I have applied twice for T1 Entrepreneur visa. The first time i applied i was misled by my solicitor and was led to believe that the process is as simple as a few documents and an interview. This application was refused.

I then reapplied with the help of another solicitor who prepared a business plan for my business idea of doing Artificial Jewellery in the UK through a Retail shop, online and trade shows to attract wholesalers.
The 200k funding was being given to me from my childhood friend in the UK.

In this application i submitted the following documents.

- Application Forms for me and 3 dependents
- Personal Bank Statemets from me and my wife showing £100k
- Business bank statements showing £10k
- Business Card, Invoice and suppliers invoice
- Marriage certificate
- Birth certificates for my children
- Letter from the 3rd party's bank confirming £200k was available for me, specifically mentioned my passport no. and my name.
- third Party's Bank statement of account which contained the £200k.
- Declaration signed by Third Party in India infront of a legal solicitor (Flew to india especially for this)
- 2 Year Tax Returns.
- House Valuation - Valued at £160k
- Shop Valuation - Valued at £110k
- Letter from third party on his company's letter headed paper stating our relation and that he would provide me the funds upon arrival in the UK.
- Solicitors witness statement to say that the declaration was signed infront of him.
- Police verification certificate printed from online.

After all this i attended an interview where the translator lacked basic english knowledge and as a result the questions the ECO asked and my answers dont match or make any sense. I wouldve answered the ECO at the time, directly but the mic wasn't near her so i couldnt hear her. I told her this.

I have spent alot of money into this and time and after all this i recieved another rejection letter stating for the 2nd time that they dont believe the third party will give the funds and cannot afford to give the funds. As the third party was in my line of business 6 years ago and since moved to another line due to his inexpericence, they used this to say why would the third party invest in you when he knows this line is not profitable?

(Refusal Letter Attached)

After a long chat with my solicitor we applied for AR on the basis that the fund were being gifted to me. The third party can afford this as he has over assets worth over £2m ( we sent bank statements to show £800k in his account, including the £200k put aside for me.) We argued that the big brands mentioned cannot be considered competitors as they dont sell indian artficial jewellery. The police verification certificate was the original as they are emailed electronically and i just printed and submitted however i am happy to get this stamped by my local police station.

After all this, AR Refused. I dont understand what to do. So any help would be appreciated.

So far i feel nothing but cheated. Please help guys. my daughter will be 18 in Jan, so i dont have much time if i have to reapply.

Image
Image

Response after AR.
You applied for entry clearance to the United Kingdom under Tier 1 Entrepreneur. Your application failed to meet the qualifying criteria and was refused. Your request for an Administrative Review was received by us on 17/10/2016.

Appendix AR of the Immigration Rules defines a case working error in relation to an eligible decision at Paragraph AR2.11 (a) – (e). As the decision to refuse you entry clearance falls under Paragraph 245DB (f)(iii), (h)(ii) and (h)(iii), 245EB(b) and 245DB(b),(f) of the Immigration Rules (that the decision maker needs to be satisfied of your genuine intensions , that you have access to £200000) the applicable paragraph for me to consider in this review is AR2.11 (d) “Where the original decision maker otherwise applied the Immigration Rules incorrectly”.

In reviewing your application I have considered your application, the transcript of your interview on 26th September 2016 and your grounds for review. I have also considered your application for review in light of the Immigration Rules and published guidance related to assessing applications made under Tier 1 of the Points Based System.

I am satisfied that in your case no case working error as defined by Appendix AR of the Immigration Rules has occurred. You were given ample opportunity at interview to satisfy the decision making ECO of your genuine intentions and opportunity to properly establish your access to the £200000 in a third parties account.

The application was also refused under paragraph 3202A - the point is that if you provide a copy ( ie not original) certificate , the copy requires validiating to show it is a true copy of the original.

Whilst you may disagree with the decision I can see nothing in your grounds for review that establishes the decision reached by the Entry Clearance Officer was in fact incorrect or evidentially flawed.


The decision to refuse entry clearance is maintained at review.

nasiaziz
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Re: Application and AR Refused, Please Help!

Post by nasiaziz » Fri Nov 11, 2016 1:49 pm

did u apply from uk or outside uk and was it initial visa or extention?
also if u applied out side uk i am sure they giv right of apeal so did they giv it to you.
thanks

karan13
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Re: Application and AR Refused, Please Help!

Post by karan13 » Fri Nov 11, 2016 2:00 pm

nasiaziz wrote:did u apply from uk or outside uk and was it initial visa or extention?
also if u applied out side uk i am sure they giv right of apeal so did they giv it to you.
thanks
Hi thanks for helping, I applied from india using a UK based solicitor. This is for the intial visa. I wasnt given a right to appeal only Administrive review. With an option for Judicial Review now but i am worried this will take more time and money and still result in a refusal.

noajthan
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Re: Application and AR Refused, Please Help!

Post by noajthan » Fri Nov 11, 2016 2:02 pm

Most unfortunate as you have evidently been let down by your advisors and possibly the interpreter (although you could have been more forceful there) but AR cannot address that.
Your daughter is not a factor that UKVI will be concerned with.
JR will prove very expensive.
All that is gold does not glitter; Not all those who wander are lost. E&OE.

seasky
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Re: Application and AR Refused, Please Help!

Post by seasky » Fri Nov 11, 2016 11:59 pm

Remember T1E is rather subjective, there is the real entrepreneurs test. Here is what caught my eye

1. you have never been to the UK. How can you seriously start any business let alone a fashion/retail one without knowing the local market well? Why not come for a few weeks for market research? Initial partnerships?

2. It's nice to have rich friends but they don't gift £200K. They might invest £200K (and would expect to do so to an entrepreneur who did market research).

To me (including the comment on your daughter) it seems your main goal is not to be a UK entrepreneur, rather you just want to move to the UK and T1E seemed like an easy route.

I am not claiming that is the case, I am claiming that is how it seems to me and also to the HO CW. And to get around it you need to make it -seem- not the case. This time much harder after two rejections.

karan13
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Re: Application and AR Refused, Please Help!

Post by karan13 » Mon Nov 14, 2016 10:20 am

seasky wrote:Remember T1E is rather subjective, there is the real entrepreneurs test. Here is what caught my eye

1. you have never been to the UK. How can you seriously start any business let alone a fashion/retail one without knowing the local market well? Why not come for a few weeks for market research? Initial partnerships?

2. It's nice to have rich friends but they don't gift £200K. They might invest £200K (and would expect to do so to an entrepreneur who did market research).

To me (including the comment on your daughter) it seems your main goal is not to be a UK entrepreneur, rather you just want to move to the UK and T1E seemed like an easy route.

I am not claiming that is the case, I am claiming that is how it seems to me and also to the HO CW. And to get around it you need to make it -seem- not the case. This time much harder after two rejections.
Appreciate the response, Taking in mind what you have stated, I just wanted to say that i mentioned to the ECO that my friend in the uk has done this business previously. He has given me a huge insight into the industry and even referred me to a client who he used to deal with previously. This customer came to visit me in india, took samples and highly appreciated my products. The customer has provided me with a letter of intent stating he was highly impressed and would be happy to work with me if i was to establish my company in the uk and that my jewellery would be in high demand. This was from a well established Artificial jewellery company.

Further to this my friend mentioned in his covering letter he is happy to assist setting my business up. I provided with particulars of 2 shops that i have seen and am interested in agreeing upon my approval.

I know it is not normal for a friend to gift £200k but this is not any normal friend. We have know each other for over 25 years and he is only gifting this to me as he feels he owes atleast this much to me and my family as my father and grandfather have helped his family alot. And anyways my friend has signed a declaration 2 times now. both 6 months apart and has kept the funds available to me for a year now. If need be, he is happy to deposit it into a court account from which only i can withdraw the funds until my visa is approved. So the fact that they dont think he will provide the funds to me i think is completly unfair. How does the 3rd party funding work then? If they are worried he wont provide me the funds. Wouldnt that be a risk from any third party funder? I would appreciate it if somebody could explain this procedure to me.

I can understand that it may seem that my goal is to just move to the UK but i am not planning to go "underground" or stay in the UK illegally, i just want to imporve the quality of my life. I am prepared to work for it and i know with the help of my friend and my 20 years of business experience i will meet the extension criteria.

I am only extremely concerned as this is my 2nd refusal and many solicitors have advised me that after the age of 18 it will be difficult to prove she is not independent and i dont want this to become a reason for a refusal later on. The sheer time all of this is taking gives me sleep-less nights. (1 Year so far...)

I am happy to apply for a standard Visitors visa and visit the UK once or twice, but does anyone think they will approve that?

Thanks once again.

seasky
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Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2011 10:01 pm
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Re: Application and AR Refused, Please Help!

Post by seasky » Mon Nov 14, 2016 10:55 am

karan13 wrote:
seasky wrote:Remember T1E is rather subjective, there is the real entrepreneurs test. Here is what caught my eye

1. you have never been to the UK. How can you seriously start any business let alone a fashion/retail one without knowing the local market well? Why not come for a few weeks for market research? Initial partnerships?

2. It's nice to have rich friends but they don't gift £200K. They might invest £200K (and would expect to do so to an entrepreneur who did market research).

To me (including the comment on your daughter) it seems your main goal is not to be a UK entrepreneur, rather you just want to move to the UK and T1E seemed like an easy route.

I am not claiming that is the case, I am claiming that is how it seems to me and also to the HO CW. And to get around it you need to make it -seem- not the case. This time much harder after two rejections.
Appreciate the response, Taking in mind what you have stated, I just wanted to say that i mentioned to the ECO that my friend in the uk has done this business previously. He has given me a huge insight into the industry and even referred me to a client who he used to deal with previously. This customer came to visit me in india, took samples and highly appreciated my products. The customer has provided me with a letter of intent stating he was highly impressed and would be happy to work with me if i was to establish my company in the uk and that my jewellery would be in high demand. This was from a well established Artificial jewellery company.

Further to this my friend mentioned in his covering letter he is happy to assist setting my business up. I provided with particulars of 2 shops that i have seen and am interested in agreeing upon my approval.

I know it is not normal for a friend to gift £200k but this is not any normal friend. We have know each other for over 25 years and he is only gifting this to me as he feels he owes atleast this much to me and my family as my father and grandfather have helped his family alot. And anyways my friend has signed a declaration 2 times now. both 6 months apart and has kept the funds available to me for a year now. If need be, he is happy to deposit it into a court account from which only i can withdraw the funds until my visa is approved. So the fact that they dont think he will provide the funds to me i think is completly unfair. How does the 3rd party funding work then? If they are worried he wont provide me the funds. Wouldnt that be a risk from any third party funder? I would appreciate it if somebody could explain this procedure to me.

I can understand that it may seem that my goal is to just move to the UK but i am not planning to go "underground" or stay in the UK illegally, i just want to imporve the quality of my life. I am prepared to work for it and i know with the help of my friend and my 20 years of business experience i will meet the extension criteria.

I am only extremely concerned as this is my 2nd refusal and many solicitors have advised me that after the age of 18 it will be difficult to prove she is not independent and i dont want this to become a reason for a refusal later on. The sheer time all of this is taking gives me sleep-less nights. (1 Year so far...)

I am happy to apply for a standard Visitors visa and visit the UK once or twice, but does anyone think they will approve that?

Thanks once again.

I am stating the obvious. You have been declined twice. So you have to do thing differently. come to the UK on short business trip and learn the marketplace so you can seriously defend a business plan. Meet more customers and suppliers. Get the £200K into your bank account now (as you say he is a special friend)

If you don't do serious changes to your application next time, really is no point.

karan13
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Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2016 12:44 pm

Re: Application and AR Refused, Please Help!

Post by karan13 » Mon Nov 14, 2016 5:27 pm

seasky wrote:
karan13 wrote:
seasky wrote:Remember T1E is rather subjective, there is the real entrepreneurs test. Here is what caught my eye

1. you have never been to the UK. How can you seriously start any business let alone a fashion/retail one without knowing the local market well? Why not come for a few weeks for market research? Initial partnerships?

2. It's nice to have rich friends but they don't gift £200K. They might invest £200K (and would expect to do so to an entrepreneur who did market research).

To me (including the comment on your daughter) it seems your main goal is not to be a UK entrepreneur, rather you just want to move to the UK and T1E seemed like an easy route.

I am not claiming that is the case, I am claiming that is how it seems to me and also to the HO CW. And to get around it you need to make it -seem- not the case. This time much harder after two rejections.
Appreciate the response, Taking in mind what you have stated, I just wanted to say that i mentioned to the ECO that my friend in the uk has done this business previously. He has given me a huge insight into the industry and even referred me to a client who he used to deal with previously. This customer came to visit me in india, took samples and highly appreciated my products. The customer has provided me with a letter of intent stating he was highly impressed and would be happy to work with me if i was to establish my company in the uk and that my jewellery would be in high demand. This was from a well established Artificial jewellery company.

Further to this my friend mentioned in his covering letter he is happy to assist setting my business up. I provided with particulars of 2 shops that i have seen and am interested in agreeing upon my approval.

I know it is not normal for a friend to gift £200k but this is not any normal friend. We have know each other for over 25 years and he is only gifting this to me as he feels he owes atleast this much to me and my family as my father and grandfather have helped his family alot. And anyways my friend has signed a declaration 2 times now. both 6 months apart and has kept the funds available to me for a year now. If need be, he is happy to deposit it into a court account from which only i can withdraw the funds until my visa is approved. So the fact that they dont think he will provide the funds to me i think is completly unfair. How does the 3rd party funding work then? If they are worried he wont provide me the funds. Wouldnt that be a risk from any third party funder? I would appreciate it if somebody could explain this procedure to me.

I can understand that it may seem that my goal is to just move to the UK but i am not planning to go "underground" or stay in the UK illegally, i just want to imporve the quality of my life. I am prepared to work for it and i know with the help of my friend and my 20 years of business experience i will meet the extension criteria.

I am only extremely concerned as this is my 2nd refusal and many solicitors have advised me that after the age of 18 it will be difficult to prove she is not independent and i dont want this to become a reason for a refusal later on. The sheer time all of this is taking gives me sleep-less nights. (1 Year so far...)

I am happy to apply for a standard Visitors visa and visit the UK once or twice, but does anyone think they will approve that?

Thanks once again.

I am stating the obvious. You have been declined twice. So you have to do thing differently. come to the UK on short business trip and learn the marketplace so you can seriously defend a business plan. Meet more customers and suppliers. Get the £200K into your bank account now (as you say he is a special friend)

If you don't do serious changes to your application next time, really is no point.


I appreciate the insight, My friend is willing to transfer the funds into my account however i am not willing to accept it into my indian account as this will result in me paying tax :cry:

I was looking at visiting the uk on a visitors visa, do you think this will be possible to obtain for just me?

Thanks

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zimba
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Re: Application and AR Refused, Please Help!

Post by zimba » Mon Nov 14, 2016 5:35 pm

Please note that tourist/short visit visas have their own requirements and rules. The rules allow you to apply for a visit visa if you want to get funding to start, take over, join or run a business in the UK.

See: https://www.gov.uk/standard-visitor-visa
Advice is given based on my personal research and experience only. Do NOT contact me via private message for immigration advice

robertholdon
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Re: Application and AR Refused, Please Help!

Post by robertholdon » Tue Nov 15, 2016 9:50 am

Hi.

Zimba and other members have addressed "Karan13" correctly.

1. It doesn't make sense when you apply your application to create a business in the UK when you've been to the UK before.
2. If you had to pay for the taxes as a result to make your application easier. Then it seems that's the best way. 3. I know that many products in the UK are being sourced from other countries. But not having any contacts or at least knowing someone here in the UK who has the same expertise. Then HO is going to be hard to accept your argument.


Also, I want to ask members. How do you quote and make yellow quotations as my quote is always just words rather than quotations like yours "yellow highlighted quote.

Thank you

karan13
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Re: Application and AR Refused, Please Help!

Post by karan13 » Wed Nov 16, 2016 1:10 pm

zimba88 wrote:Please note that tourist/short visit visas have their own requirements and rules. The rules allow you to apply for a visit visa if you want to get funding to start, take over, join or run a business in the UK.

See: https://www.gov.uk/standard-visitor-visa
I am starting to think a few trips on a Visitors visa is my only option for now, anyone have any advice or information on what to watch out for? to stop it from being refused again.

Also can i open a uk bank account on my first visit? I am waiting for HSBC to tell me.

Thanks

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zimba
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Re: Application and AR Refused, Please Help!

Post by zimba » Wed Nov 16, 2016 1:22 pm

Please follow the links provided. Read the official information on how to obtain a visit visa.
Given that you do not have a legal residency and an address in the UK, you normally will NOT be able to open a bank account. HSBC certainly demands UK residency to open a bank account from my experience.
Advice is given based on my personal research and experience only. Do NOT contact me via private message for immigration advice

karan13
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Re: Application and AR Refused, Please Help!

Post by karan13 » Fri Nov 25, 2016 8:47 pm

zimba88 wrote:Please follow the links provided. Read the official information on how to obtain a visit visa.
Given that you do not have a legal residency and an address in the UK, you normally will NOT be able to open a bank account. HSBC certainly demands UK residency to open a bank account from my experience.
Hi Zimba88,

Thanks you for your help, i have spoken to my solicitors and they have advised that after my daughter turns 18 she is no longer a dependent and will have to obtain a visa either as a student or my business partner. I am afraid that she wont qualify as my business partner as she has no experience or knowledge in business. After all my objective is to settle in the UK with my family along with setting up my company. Is a student visa the only other way? I am afraid that she may not qualify for that also.

Thanks.

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zimba
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Re: Application and AR Refused, Please Help!

Post by zimba » Fri Nov 25, 2016 9:41 pm

Yes, Children above 18 years old cannot become your dependants as they are considered adults. Student visa (Tier 4) is the only way I am afraid, which has its own rules and requirements.
Advice is given based on my personal research and experience only. Do NOT contact me via private message for immigration advice

karan13
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Re: Application and AR Refused, Please Help!

Post by karan13 » Sat Nov 26, 2016 6:24 pm

zimba88 wrote:Yes, Children above 18 years old cannot become your dependants as they are considered adults. Student visa (Tier 4) is the only way I am afraid, which has its own rules and requirements.
Hi Zimba,

Thanks for confirming, Will she be able to come with me on any other type of visa? T1 (Investor) etc. Or once shes 18 its basically over? :(

Thanks.

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zimba
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Re: Application and AR Refused, Please Help!

Post by zimba » Sun Nov 27, 2016 2:55 pm

She will be treated as a separate applicant now. So for example she can be a Tier 1E team member but NOT a dependant on ANY visa with you.
Advice is given based on my personal research and experience only. Do NOT contact me via private message for immigration advice

noajthan
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Re: Application and AR Refused, Please Help!

Post by noajthan » Sun Nov 27, 2016 3:22 pm

karan13 wrote:Will she be able to come with me on any other type of visa? T1 (Investor) etc. Or once shes 18 its basically over? :(

Thanks.
Nothing is over.
In the UK immigration system, over 18 is adult.

As a citizen of the world daughter may make her way as she sees fit.
In terms of UK daughter is almost spoiled for choice with options of:
T1
T2
T4
T5
and family/spousal.
All that is gold does not glitter; Not all those who wander are lost. E&OE.

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Casa
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Re: Application and AR Refused, Please Help!

Post by Casa » Sun Nov 27, 2016 4:24 pm

Note: T1 option would only be Tier 1 Entrepreneur as T1 General is now closed.
(Casa, not CR001)
Please don't send me PMs asking for immigration advice on posts that are on the open forum. If I haven't responded there, it's because I don't have the answer. I'm a moderator, not a legal professional.

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