Request for additional documents

[bralim]

Hello,
Myself and my wife are EU citizens. We have been residents in the UK since 30/10/2006 and obtained permanent residence recently as of 30/10/2011. We then applied for citizenship through NCS. I work while my wife is a homemaker. In order to prove residence we included a letter from my employer confirming employment as they requested and letters from GP and dentists stating the appointments we attended. We also included a letter from our son nursery which he attended in 2015-16 stating the we took him to school ourselves every day. For my wife we also included a few hospital appointment letters as well as the birth certificate of our son indicating he was born here from her.
Today we received a letter from the HO asking for additional documents to prove residence for both myself and my wife as the ones we had sent were not sufficient. The letter indicated the evidence that an EU national whose qualifying period is the same as the period exercising treaty rights should produce. That is evidence about employment (P60s, etc) or self sufficiency (including health insurance) etc. However, we have already qualified for permanent residence hence we do not need to satisfy those requirements anymore. I can provide additional documentation for myself (P60, P11D, pension, NI contributions etc) but I am not sure what else I can provide to prove residence for my wife. Be mindful that for almost every month there are at least a couple of proofs, appointments.
Sorry for the long post.
Any ideas on what else we could provide them?
Thank you all in advance for at least taking the time to read this.
Ciao

[alterhase58]

This should be posted in the "British Citizenship" forum.
Naturalisation comes under UK rules not EEA rules. Perhaps it would help if you copy out the full wording from the letter (minus personal details), lay out the timeline clearly and list out the documents you actually submitted.

[noajthan]

Hello,
Myself and my wife are EU citizens. We have been residents in the UK since 30/10/2006 and obtained permanent residence recently as of 30/10/2011. We then applied for citizenship through NCS. I work while my wife is a homemaker. In order to prove residence we included a letter from my employer confirming employment as they requested and letters from GP and dentists stating the appointments we attended. We also included a letter from our son nursery which he attended in 2015-16 stating the we took him to school ourselves every day. For my wife we also included a few hospital appointment letters as well as the birth certificate of our son indicating he was born here from her.
Today we received a letter from the HO asking for additional documents to prove residence for both myself and my wife as the ones we had sent were not sufficient. The letter indicated the evidence that an EU national whose qualifying period is the same as the period exercising treaty rights should produce. That is evidence about employment (P60s, etc) or self sufficiency (including health insurance) etc. However, we have already qualified for permanent residence hence we do not need to satisfy those requirements anymore. I can provide additional documentation for myself (P60, P11D, pension, NI contributions etc) but I am not sure what else I can provide to prove residence for my wife. Be mindful that for almost every month there are at least a couple of proofs, appointments.
Sorry for the long post.
Any ideas on what else we could provide them?
Thank you all in advance for at least taking the time to read this.
Ciao

You need to read the guidance on AN form and in the AN Guide and Booklet - all on Gov UK website.

Applying for citizenship is done under completely different legislation and with completely different requirements.
You are not simply 'reapplying for confirmation of PR'.

Don't take this for granted just because you have PR already and do make sure you can prove your residence in UK.
Including proving being physically present in UK 5 years before date of application.

Absence rules for naturalisation are different from those for confirming PR.
Get any of it wrong and you will most likely be refused.

Its worth applying via NCS too.

The guidance is comprehensive and clear - suggest start there.

[bralim]

Thank you alterhase I will repost in the British Citizenship forum taking your comments on board.
Noajthan: I have read both guidance and book, and indeed I have provided a letter from my employer confirming dates of employment. We used NCS and they suggested this evidence and were happy with it. I agree that using NCS helps.
I am ready to prove physical presence in the UK, however the annex I received indicated documents to produce for EU nationals whose qualifying period (the last 5 years) coincides with the period when they are exercising treaty rights (the first 5 years). As you correctly point out what needs to be proven is the exercise of treaty rights first and the physical presence later, very different things IMO.

[noajthan]

This post is now in correct forum.

[bralim]

Looks like the post moved Indeed, thank you.
The letter says: ... Before we can proceed further please send all of the following original documents to this office by 5/12/16.
- mr bralim and Mrs bralim alternative evidence of residence to fully cover the period 9/2011 to 9/2016. As the documents you have provided are insufficient.
Then points to a annex "alternative evidence of residence for a eu national" that starts with: "if you are a national of the EU who has been in the UK in exercise of your rights to free movement during your qualifying period o of residence you should send alternative evidence ..." Examples are pretty much what is in the guidance and book.

This is where I start getting a bit confused.
We arrived in the UK on 10/2006 and have since been living here while I have been employed. We recently obtained a PR card providing evidence of residence and exercising treaty rights from 10/2006 to 10/2011 and indeed the PR card for each of us eventhough issued on 7/2016 has a PR start date of 10/2011 as verified by the NCS. Hence I think we should only need to verify physical presence inthe qualifying period not exercise of treaty rights (e.g., self sufficiency does not need to be accompanied by health insurance).

So, what did we provide in the AN as proof of residence?
Mr bralim (employed)
- letter from employer confirming employment in the Uk
- letter from the GP confirming registration on 1/2007 and list of appointments in the qualifying period (9/2011-9/2016) about 1-2 per year
- letter from dentist confirming appointments (1-2 per year)

Mrs bralim (homemaker)
- letter from GP confirming registration since 1/2007 and appointments (4-6 per year)
- letter from dentist (2-3 per year)
- letter from nursery stating she took our son to nursery in the period 9/2015-7/2016
- son birth certificate (4/2012) as he was born in London from Mrs bralim
- misc hospital appointments

In the end for Mrs bralim we have 1-4 appointments per month for 6-8 months each year. 1-2 months we are out of the country on vacation (still within 90 days per year and less then 450 for the last 5 years) and hence there are 2-4 months per year with no evidence.

So, this is what we are planning on submitting:
Mr bralim
- P60 for each year besides the last two (I was employed but on unpaid leave so there is no P60)
- P11D for each year
- pension statement for each year that shows employer contributions

Mrs bralim
- child benefit award (submitted already) along with bank statements showing it has been deposited since 5/2014.
- ask for letter from local library listing books she checked out and dates
- ask for letter from child centres where she has taken some courses (short free borough courses) certifying that she has taken those
- ask for letter from gym (where she pays when she goes) stating when the dates she has been there.

We are also thinking of asking our real estate agent to write a letter stating we have been renting and living in this flat since 7/2012 and that we generally live here and ask her for repairs when things break. Similar kind of letter perhaps to the porters of the building we live in, stating that they have seen us living in this flat and generally here when not on vacation.

All the items for Mrs. Bralim are uncertain (not sure we are going to get and also in time) and seem so much weaker than the evidence we have submitted already. The list of alternative documents in the annex they sent us seems useless for us as she was not exercising treaty rights in the last 5 years as a homemaker.

Incidentally, they also asked to provide the original FPN and/or her driving licence counterpart for an FPN for speeding (92 on 70 mph) that Mrs bralim received on 5/2010 and that she disclosed (fully paid in time). We do not have the original FPN anymore and have talked to the met police that suggested an FOI request that will likely take longer than the time we have to respond to the HO. We have done the FOI request anyway. Mrs bralim was driving on a EU licence and hence there is no driving licence counterpart to produce. I was thinking of explaining the circumstance and the FOI and produce a clean DBS that we just did for our son school that should help improving the good character requirement. Or else, politely say that they can just look up the ticket themselves?

We also reached out to NCS to see if there is any suggestion they can offer.

Sorry sorry sorry for the very long and detailed post (second time around that I write it, the first time something went wrong and I lost it.... Arghhhh.) . Thank you in advance for any suggestion, hints help or empathy you might offer.
Ciao

[Indianlonly]

My openion maybe wrong or right but I believe it
Ho need to know u wasn't obsence more 450 days in the 5 years specially your mrs as they couldn't find record for her in Hmrc all the decuments u mentioned about ur wife anyone can do it any time in Uk it doesn't strong evidence for risednce even ur employers letter it won't show your obsences or ur salary and in other hand they probably checked ur both ur aquired PR in thier database and its of course not after exactly 5 years from the date u arrived Bcos they account it at thier own rules so they want make sure u r Nd mrs didn't leave Uk more than years after aquired PR Nd evidence u provided not strong

Have u send ur application in September ?

[bralim]

Yes, we applied in September.
But then, how does one prove physical presence? What is strong evidence?
Lacking the stamps on the passport given we are EU citizens.