EEA Family permit, Dependency or Membership of household

[northendcanuck]

I have been reading this from the Home Office and find it confusing:

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... als_v3.pdf

I am a EU National myself and living with my Sister, her husband and two kids outside EU at the moment. I take it as because my sister are married so she will not be able to qualify for EEA FP direct family member. I would like to know if she, her husband and kids could qualify as Extended Family Member or not. They are currently living with me in my apartment. They have been living with me for about a year already but financially independent. I own the apartment.

I am confused by what I have read in Regulation 8(2) in p15 and 18 of Dependency. It said the requirements under p18 "To meet the requirements of regulation 8(2), the extended family member must have been living in a country (other than the UK) and be dependent upon the EEA national or have been a member of their household". I read it in the forum here somewhere saying that even tho my sister and her family are living with me but I have to show that they are financially depending on me prior Home Office to consider my sister application for EEA FP.

So, does it mean what they mentioned in the above Home Office Link p18 mean member of the household must be financially dependent on the EEA National? Am I getting it right?

[noajthan]

Welcome.

Yes, such a family are not your FMs; they are EFMs.

The key word in the guidance you quoted is "OR".

Dependency or membership of household outside UK
The extended family member must demonstrate they were:
dependent on the EEA national in a country other than the UK
or
a member of the EEA national’s household in a country other than the UK.

[northendcanuck]

Welcome.

Yes, such a family are not your FMs; they are EFMs.

The key word in the guidance you quoted is "OR".

Dependency or membership of household outside UK
The extended family member must demonstrate they were:
dependent on the EEA national in a country other than the UK
or
a member of the EEA national’s household in a country other than the UK.

Thank you for your reply. Ok, The FM route is not for my sister so I need to look at the EFM route. Here is where I got lost. The key word "OR". Does it mean my sister, her husband and kids are required to be financial dependent on me before they apply?

If my sister, her husband and kids are not required to be financially depending on me, how will Home Office define "Membership of my Household" or how can I demonstrate to Home Office that my sister, her husband and kids are the members of my household? If you have any information, please share with me. Thank you.

[noajthan]

Thank you for your reply. Ok, The FM route is not for my sister so I need to look at the EFM route. Here is where I got lost. The key word "OR". Does it mean my sister, her husband and kids are required to be financial dependent on me before they apply?

If my sister, her husband and kids are not required to be financially depending on me, how will Home Office define "Membership of my Household" or how can I demonstrate to Home Office that my sister, her husband and kids are the members of my household? If you have any information, please share with me. Thank you.

Yes, dependent on you before they apply - that is for their essential daily needs, so you have to prove you are keeping the whole family;
OR living in your household (house) of which you are the head of household.

So, for example, the fact that you and sis once lived together in carefree younger days in your parent's house would not count.

You would have to prove you own such a house and were the head of it and the family live (lived) there with you.
So a papertrail of appropriate documents would be required.

Get up to speed on these vital matters here:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... als_v3.pdf

The point is this is not about chain migration, its more about enabling Union citizens to exercise treaty rights across EU memberstates, at the same time strengthening family ties and without being constrained by leaving vital members of Union citizen's family/household behind.
So if this family cannot join you is it a drag factor that would cause you to give up on UK and pull you (or keep you) back to home country?
That's the kind of context and kind of tests to overcome.

[northendcanuck]

Thank you for your reply. Ok, The FM route is not for my sister so I need to look at the EFM route. Here is where I got lost. The key word "OR". Does it mean my sister, her husband and kids are required to be financial dependent on me before they apply?

If my sister, her husband and kids are not required to be financially depending on me, how will Home Office define "Membership of my Household" or how can I demonstrate to Home Office that my sister, her husband and kids are the members of my household? If you have any information, please share with me. Thank you.

Yes, dependent on you before they apply - that is for their essential daily needs, so you have to prove you are keeping the whole family;
OR living in your household (house) of which you are the head of household.

So, for example, the fact that you and sis once lived together in carefree younger days in your parent's house would not count.

You would have to prove you own such a house and were the head of it and the family live (lived) there with you.
So a papertrail of appropriate documents would be required.

Get up to speed on these vital matters here:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... als_v3.pdf

The point is this is not about chain migration, its more about enabling Union citizens to exercise treaty rights across EU memberstates, at the same time strengthening family ties and without being constrained by leaving vital members of Union citizen's family/household behind.
So if this family cannot join you is it a drag factor that would cause you to give up on UK and pull you (or keep you) back to home country?
That's the kind of context and kind of tests to overcome.

Hi. Thank you for your link. I found this in the Home Office Website:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... egulations

It was published in 2013. I know it is pretty old but I was wondering if it is still the practise of the Home Office. Under the EUN2.9, it said EFM must have financial dependency on the EEA national. Does it contradict the pdf file you have provided above?

Also, in page 15 of the pdf said the evidence for Regulation 8(2) is financial related but it didnt mention anything about evidence for member of the hosuehold so does it mean Home Office will look at financial dependency prior look at any other evidence for my sister application?

[noajthan]

Hi. Thank you for your link. I found this in the Home Office Website:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... egulations

It was published in 2013. I know it is pretty old but I was wondering if it is still the practise of the Home Office. Under the EUN2.9, it said EFM must have financial dependency on the EEA national. Does it contradict the pdf file you have provided above?

Also, in page 15 of the pdf said the evidence for Regulation 8(2) is financial related but it didnt mention anything about evidence for member of the hosuehold so does it mean Home Office will look at financial dependency prior look at any other evidence for my sister application?

No, all it means is that such guidance is not the full picture and is not the law.
It is just guidance and the map is not the territory.

HO may use such guidance and may refuse an application by applying it - but as it may not be fully compliant with EU law, (the Directive and/or with associated case law) it may be challenged by appeal and/or legal action.

The lack of reference to 'households' that you have spotted simply shows, again, that the guidance is not giving the full picture.

EU law does not assign any weighting to 'dependency' versus 'household'; its simply either-or (or both!).

[northendcanuck]

Hi,

I got another question about EEA EFP. If my nephew is under 18 and moved to UK to study a short course for 3 to 6 months and lived with me. I am EEA national. Will I be able to sponsor my nephew to get a EEA EFP to stay with me longer?

Thx.

[noajthan]

Hi,

I got another question about EEA EFP. If my nephew is under 18 and moved to UK to study a short course for 3 to 6 months and lived with me. I am EEA national. Will I be able to sponsor my nephew to get a EEA EFP to stay with me longer?

Thx.

Not sure what you mean by EFP.

It depends if nephew is able to prove he is your EFM, dependent on you.
Assuming nephew is non-EEA, how will he get to UK in first place? on what visa?
As an EFM he won't get into a college until he has acquired an EFM RC with you as sponsor.

[northendcanuck]

Hi,

I got another question about EEA EFP. If my nephew is under 18 and moved to UK to study a short course for 3 to 6 months and lived with me. I am EEA national. Will I be able to sponsor my nephew to get a EEA EFP to stay with me longer?

Thx.

Not sure what you mean by EFP.

It depends if nephew is able to prove he is your EFM, dependent on you.
Assuming nephew is non-EEA, how will he get to UK in first place? on what visa?
As an EFM he won't get into a college until he has acquired an EFM RC with you as sponsor.

Sorry, my apology. I mixed up the EEA extended family permit and the Residence Card for EEA Family member after enter UK. No, the nephew will come in with a student visa and I am planning to fund his studies and staying. I was wondering if he could apply for the Residence Card as EEA Family member once when he is in UK and stayed with me for sometime.

[noajthan]

Sorry, my apology. I mixed up the EEA extended family permit and the Residence Card for EEA Family member after enter UK. No, the nephew will come in with a student visa and I am planning to fund his studies and staying. I was wondering if he could apply for the Residence Card as EEA Family member once when he is in UK and stayed with me for sometime.

Well a nephew is not a family member he's an extended family member.
He could apply but as an EFM he will need a RC issued with you as sponsor before jumping ship from student visa.
And concerned sponsoring college would have to agree to such a move.