Family member of UK citizen SS route Ireland

[LisaP]

Hello everyone,
I am very scared today my husband received a letter stating that his application still has not been considered. It's been over 6 months. Their reason is because they need more information to demonstrate that my husband meets the conditions of regulation 9(as amended) ??? We applied in June and the new changes were in November.. does this apply to us?
Information they asking for:
Information and evidence to show that the British citizen is currently in the UK and looking for work, working or self employed, self sufficient or a student, or would have a right of permanent residence in the UK( if they were a national of another search member state) - I am a UK citizen so I have a right of permanent residence.. and we applied through the SS route .

Information and evidence to show that before returning to the UK , the British citizen resided in another email member state( the eea host country) as a worker self employed, self sufficient person or a student or acquired the right of permanent residence in the weather host country. - I was working in ireland for 10 months I provided all the payslips, contract, employment letter.


Information and evidence to show the your residence and the British citizens residence in the eaa host country was genuine .- we included rental agreementioned, gas , Internet & TV bills, pictures of us, pps number, letter confirming residence form ptrb, letter from hospital about my pregnancy.

Then they ask us questions that were already included in the application which we already answered.... so have they looked at the application at all??? Or what is going on?? Please help. Should I get a solicitor?
Thank you in advance and sorry about the long post

[noajthan]

The wording of notification for the recent EEA Regs changes seems to suggest the SS changes are to be applied retrospectively and that's what you seem to be reporting.
Suggest try to supply information as requested (with or without help of solicitor).

[LisaP]

Hello again noajthan ,
All the documents I have already provided with my application so should I resubmit them ? Or write to them stating that I have submitted everything that's been asked for?

[noajthan]

Hello again noajthan ,
All the documents I have already provided with my application so should I resubmit them ? Or write to them stating that I have submitted everything that's been asked for?

Just writing back to say you've submitted the documents before may not help as you have apparently been asked for more information.

The impact of the recent changes is not really known yet and yours seems to be one of the first cases.

There's more discussion about it all here:
http://www.immigrationboards.com/eea-ro ... 1418194are

[LisaP]

Do I have to be currently working or looking for work here in the UK? I am a full time mom ato the moment taking care of my 7 month old daughter while my American husband works full time.

[MrSlyFox]

I think the new Regulations mean that the British Citizen would need to be a qualified person just like other EEA Nationals. Although British citizens aren't subject to immigration control (Obviously) I don't think it counts as permanent residence under the regulation 9. Which appears to want the British Citizen to be a QP (Just like any other EEA National the Regulations apply to, as it states "these regulations apply to the British citizen to be treated as an EEA National under this act" or something to that affect) i.e. worker, student, etc. Also the family member has to meet the same requirements for CSI if applicable i.e. student, self-sufficient howver the British Citizen is Exempt from this for some reason (Because all EEA nationals can access the NHS it does seem strange but HO does it what it does for reasons they don't explain)

[LisaP]

So I have to get a job... isn't it a bit unfair that last minute they tell us I needed to do these things. Why is this even applicable to us if we applied way before any changes were made in may 2016. When I made the application I didn't need to work here in the UK. It seems that I would have to get a solicitor correct ? Because I am unable to work because of my baby.

[mkhan2525]

Requiring the British Citzen to be a qualified person on return to the UK is contrary to Eind case law.

One reason they could be asking for this information is to see if you would meet the income threshold to sponsor spouse on domestic route and that you didn't go to Ireland just to circumvent UK Immigration rules.

The additional information may help the caseworker to form their opnion in stage 4 of the
process to determine purpose of residence.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... -_v1_0.pdf

[MrSlyFox]

Although I hope the case of eind still applies the later case of
Judgements of O and S stated;

- "where an EEA national has satisfied the above conditions, the provisions of the free movement directive apply by analogy where that EEA national returns to their member state of nationality" page 14: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... Law-v3.pdf

Could the provision have been superseded? Meaning the British Citizen has to be a qp? Because that the only logical reason why they'd be asking for proof i'd assume.

[Obie]

Although I hope the case of eind still applies the later case of
Judgements of O and S stated;

- "where an EEA national has satisfied the above conditions, the provisions of the free movement directive apply by analogy where that EEA national returns to their member state of nationality" page 14: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... Law-v3.pdf

Could the provision have been superseded? Meaning the British Citizen has to be a qp? Because that the only logical reason why they'd be asking for proof i'd assume.

There is no superseding here. OB was not dealing with the situation of a worker, neither was the court being asked if a worker should be exercising treaty rights upon their return.

The only case whether that question was asked and determined was in Eind, and that case is still good law. Any contrary interpretation will be clearly unlawful.

[MrSlyFox]

That's fantastic if Eind is still applicable, but why did the HO ask for:

Information they asking for:
Information and evidence to show that the British citizen is currently in the UK and looking for work, working or self employed, self sufficient or a student, or would have a right of permanent residence in the UK( if they were a national of another search member state)

[Obie]

That's fantastic if Eind is still applicable, but why did the HO ask for:

Information they asking for:
Information and evidence to show that the British citizen is currently in the UK and looking for work, working or self employed, self sufficient or a student, or would have a right of permanent residence in the UK( if they were a national of another search member state)

Why should Eind not still apply?

I have said many times that the November changes are mostly unlawful under EU law.

However I don't wish to dwell on it much as it is not the primary law of the land.

By the pathway of the 1972 Act, the courts are obliged to have no regards to it, in so far as it is in breach of EU law, which it is.

[gillacious_505]

That's fantastic if Eind is still applicable, but why did the HO ask for:

Information they asking for:
Information and evidence to show that the British citizen is currently in the UK and looking for work, working or self employed, self sufficient or a student, or would have a right of permanent residence in the UK( if they were a national of another search member state)

Why should Eind not still apply?

I have said many times that the November changes are mostly unlawful under EU law.

However I don't wish to dwell on it much as it is not the primary law of the land.

By the pathway of the 1972 Act, the courts are obliged to have no regards to it, in so far as it is in breach of EU law, which it is.

I think, the very fact that they asked for this evidence means that HO have very sneakily phased out Eind in a low key way. But the biggest paradox is that Eind Case law is still on the HO documentation. How can they possibly contradict what's there on the website.

I am surprised that still there is no FOI query posed to HO in this regard...

[LisaP]

So should I get a solicitor or wait to see what happens? I think they are also being very sneaky about the whole thing

[gillacious_505]

So should I get a solicitor or wait to see what happens? I think they are also being very sneaky about the whole thing

Can I ask you is it just the Eind element you don't satisfy or there are other aspects in the letter which you don't satisfy?

I am not sure how having a solicitor at this stage would help you in this regard given the limited time you have and the 25th November rules are so confusing and ambiguous to understand(which i think they did it on purpose..)

You can still provide an evidence of you looking for work. Can quickly go to Job centres, arrange some interviews or any other evidence to suggest you are looking for work. That would atleast satisfy some part of their requirements.. You can then also take a copy of Eind case law and include it and suggest even though as per Eind law you are not required to be a QP, you are still including some evidence...

If god forbid if you get a refusal, you will have a very strong case in the appeal and in fact almost all of the changes HO made in 25th November is unlawful and there is a very strong evidence to prove it....
Don't worry we are also in the same boat but only we applied for residence card after 25th november. So it would be few months before we receive any letter from them...

[noajthan]

A related and ultimately successful case that may be of interest:
http://www.immigrationboards.com/eea-ro ... l#p1434118

[LisaP]

The first part which is me looking or currently working in the UK which worries me. I am afraid if I start looking for jobs now that it will look bad . Should I just go to job centre and do just that? Or be honest and inform them that at the moment I just gave birth to my daughter and am taking care of her till she's a little older. We do satisfy all the other parts because we did receive a family permit to come here from Ireland. We sent all the documents and proof they needed. Just this recent change is a bit ridiculous and we sent in our app in may when the old rules applied. I still don't see why and how this is legal..
Just a bit of history
Me and my husband (fiance at the time) were living together here in the UK while we both were studying for 2 years( unofficially because we didn't want my parents to know before marriage .)
Then we moved to new York for a 1 year and a half
Then we decided to go to Ireland (11 months) because my husband found some prospective engineering jobs. It didn't work out for him especially since I became pregnant and wanted to be with my mom for guidance and support.
Honestly if I knew things would be this stressing I would of stayed in ireland but now it's a bit too late because we left that life behind and started ours here now.