Directive 2004/38/EC - Article 7

[tmonaghan]

Hello

British Citizen marrying my EU Partner in the UK because we want to make sure that if something serious and life threatening happens, both will be able to make decisions for both. At the moment although I am considered as unmarried partner, there is no one else than me in the UK who is a family member because my partner's family is in Portugal. I called the home office several times asking for advice on the status of my partner's immigration rights once he marries a British Citizen. It seems to me that in spite of contacting the Home Office for information; they failed to provide us with concrete information. I had expected the Home Office to say that once married my Portuguese partner will have to apply for a spouse visa. Basically, the home Office told me that because my partner is a EU Citizen, he is supposedly allowed to remain for as long as he exercises his EU treaty rights. I understand that for now it is premature to worry about the status of EU Citizen in the UK. However I want to make sure that we can protect our rights to remain together by marrying each other. It seems to me that the Home Office has yet to implement some sort of Visa/residence permit for British Citizen and EU citizen marrying each other. A spouse visa is only for non UK/EU Citizens. EEA family permit is for third country citizens...

Any idea if there is anything else we can do to make sure our marriage remains valid after brexit

Thanks,

Trevor

[ohara]

the home Office told me that because my partner is a EU Citizen, he is supposedly allowed to remain for as long as he exercises his EU treaty rights.

This is correct (at least until Brexit) and it is surprising and welcoming news that the Home Office helpline have actually given out factual information for a change.

Nobody knows what will happen with Brexit yet, apparently not even the government.

How long as your partner been in the UK? Have they been exercising treaty rights?

In the absolute worst hard-Brexit scenario, you could still sponsor your partner on a UK spouse visa. For now at least, being married doesn't give your partner any immigration advantage as such.

[tmonaghan]

Dear EIF,

Job seekers have the right to reside for a period exceeding six months (CoJ, Case C-292/89 Antonissen) without having to meet any conditions if they continue to seek employment in the host Member State and have a ‘genuine chance’ of finding work; during this time they cannot be expelled.

The question is as follow. For example if after six months I find a job that will last for four months and I resigned because it was too difficult to the extent that an ambulance was called once by the employer to take me to the hospital for chest pains and I was diagnosed by the Consultants with muscle pains.

If after working for four months I quit; how much time am I allowed "again" to look for another job without registering as a joibseeker, until I find another employment? I would not register as a jobseeker because the jobcentre plus would say that since I resigned I would not be entitled to any benefits. Fair enough... What I want is to work and pay my taxes...

How much time during the right of residence for more than three months do we have between jobs even though they might have lasted several months? Times spent looking for another job that can be considered as reasonable times to look for work on the basis that I resigned from my previous employments?

PS: I am currently a self-sufficient person through my unmarried partner so I am not a worried about expulsion or else.

Many thanks,

Trevor Monaghan

[noajthan]

HO plays hardball with jobseekers despite Antonissen
See https://www.freemovement.org.uk/amendme ... b-seeking/

[secret.simon]

PS: I am currently a self-sufficient person through my unmarried partner so I am not a worried about expulsion or else.

Are you an EEA citizen? Is your unmarried partner an EEA citizen? Have you been issued with a Residence Card as the Family Member of an EEA citizen?

If this is about the UK's implementation of the EU Directive, can the mods please move this thread to the EEA-Route Applications forum?

[tmonaghan]

Hello secret.simon,

Thanks for replying to my question. I am a Portuguese European Citizen unmarried to a British Citizen for 4.5 years. Both relocated from Portugal back in January 2015 to look for work here. Although my partner is a British Citizen, Directive 2004/38/EC does not apply to him. However Directive 2004/38/EC dictates how to live my life in the UK. That is why I inquired into how much time one would be allowed again to look for another job if your last employment lasted no more than four months. I also had another job that did not last more than three months.

My CV has been altered to reflect the fact that I speak, read but it does not mention that I cannot write appropriate English. I have been practicing my writing skills for as long as I have been in the UK but it takes a while but don’t get me wrong; I can fluently speak, write and read in Portuguese and Spanish languages.

Thus far and for now the only jobs that would not make it a requirement to hold good writing skills are the sort of jobs known as working in a restaurant as a Porter or Waiters on zero-hour contracts which are still genuine and effective employments, and should be accepted as exercising Treaty rights as a “Worker”.

When I mean being "Self-Sufficient" is that during my time of unemployment and until I am able to find a suitable job that can make me feel comfortable and happy; my partner is providing me with financial support for everything, although I paid half the rent when working even if it was for three or four months.

Many thanks,

Trevor Monaghan

[tmonaghan]

I don't understand why the HO is making it so harder for jobseekers. What we want is more clarity with the Law so that we can organise our lives around those obstacles in a fair manner instead of tricking people who have the rights to be in this UK.

[tmonaghan]

So from contacting the Home Office, it confirmed what I was suspecting.
The answer is that if after entering the UK for example, a Jobseeker finds work after 5 months and remains employed for 4 months and quits. That unemployed person cannot become a jobseeker again because they would have had to be employed for at least 12 months and had not resigned to claim unemployment benefits. If they resigned they cannot be jobseeker again and get another six months as you would have had when you first arrived in the country based on Case Law Antonissen.

Within the context of someone who left his employment after four months and became unemployed; that person would not be a jobseeker but will have to become a self-sufficient person during the time he/she is looking for another job because he/she has spent over six months in the UK to look for work.

So basically someone is only given six months to look for work as soon as they arrive in the country; at any other time they will have to show evidence that they are looking for work and that they have a genuine chance of finding work.

If that is not possible then the jobseeker will have to leave the Country or remain in the UK as a self-sufficient person while looking for another job...

Lucky that I am financially reliant on my partner as it gives me the comfort of knowing that I can take as long as I need to look for a job while living in the UK as a self-sufficient person based on Law Case C-408/03 that has the aim to demonstrate that although Self-Sufficient Nationals need to prove that they have the necessary resources to avoid becoming a burden on social assistance system of that state during the period of residence; The Court observed that, under the very terms of the Directive, it is sufficient for the nationals of Member States to “have” the necessary resources and that this provision lays down no requirement whatsoever as to their “origin”. Such as from my partner...

Thanks,

Trevor

[secret.simon]

Remember that to be a self-sufficient person, you also need CSI aka private health insurance. No private health insurance = no self-sufficiency and hence no residence/break in residence.

[tmonaghan]

Yes, thank you secret.simon... I have one for myself; my BC partner does not need one...

[tmonaghan]

Hello,

In Immigration (EEA) Regulations 2006
6 “Qualified person”
(1) In these Regulations, “qualified person” means a person who is an EEA national and in the United Kingdom as–

(a) a jobseeker;

Does a jobseeker needs to be registered with the jobcentre Plus to be a Qualified person?

When I first arrived the Job Centre Plus issued me with a NHS Number and told me that there was no point in me signing on given that I will not be entitled to any benefits. Fair enough but how am I going to comply with Immigration (EEA) Regulations 2006 if I was supposed to be registered as a Jobseeker with the JobCentre Plus to comply with the regulation?

Thank you

[MrSlyFox]

Hello,
The 2006 regulations have been replaced by the "European Economic Area (immigration) Regulations 2016" since yesterday. - http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016 ... ion/6/made

Here is the Home office guidance on who is a qualified person:

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... 4_0EXT.pdf

Page 8 says who can be considered a jobseeker

Note for the first three months when to arrive you don't have to be qualified only from three months you must be exercising a right to reside in the UK.

But Yes, registering if the Jobcentre plus is a good idea to support your case as a job seeker (But isn't sufficient alone to be evidence as a job seeker as per guidance)

[noajthan]

And Job Centre staff are not necessarily immigration advisors.

[tmonaghan]

Jobseekers status
4. The Home Office has to-date interpreted regulation 6(2) to mean that jobseeker status only applies “on-entry‟; meaning that a person can only be a jobseeker for the period after which they enter the UK in search of work, but before they are first employed. The Home Office has not to-date regarded those people who have worked in the UK and who voluntarily leave employment but then seek work again, as jobseekers.
5. Following the Upper Tribunal case of Shabani, this position has changed and it is now the case that someone who voluntarily leaves employment, without retaining worker status, can revert to being a jobseeker without needing to leave and re-enter the UK, provided they are genuinely seeking employment and have a real chance of being engaged.
6. Regulation 6(4) of the Regulations amends the definition of “jobseeker‟ in line with Shabani. A jobseeker is now defined as a person who:
• entered the United Kingdom in order to seek employment or
• is in the UK seeking employment immediately after being a qualified person under regulation 6(1)(b)-(e); and
• can provide evidence to demonstrate that they are seeking work and have a genuine chance of being engaged.
7. An EEA national who meets the above conditions cannot continue to be regarded as a jobseeker for longer than six months unless they can provide compelling evidence that they are seeking work and have a genuine chance of being engaged. See paragraph 8 of this notice for an example of this.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... dacted.pdf

[noajthan]

The above document is dated 2014 and appears to have been redacted.

[tmonaghan]

Yes, but wait I have something better for you

https://moj-tribunals-documents-prod.s3 ... _s_drc.pdf

Page 8 states the following

"7. Having reconsidered the position in light of the issues raised in this
case, the respondent can confirm that she agrees that…it is accepted
that someone who has come to the UK as a jobseeker, has obtained
work, becomes unemployed, and then sought work again is a jobseeker
within the meaning of the Directive and Article [sic] 6(1)(a) of the EEA
Regulations"

[noajthan]

So what is your point or your question?

[tmonaghan]

Sorry noajthan, I used the wrong post to past the original document...

[tmonaghan]

Why do I see two of my posts listed one above the other..

[noajthan]

All your questions should be made in same topic instead of posting every single question separately.

[tmonaghan]

The answer to the original question that was "How much time during the right of residence for more than three months do we have between jobs even though they might have lasted several months? Such times spent looking for another job that can be considered reasonable times to look for work on the basis that I resigned from my previous employments?"

Supported Case Law - [2013] UKUT 315 - Tribunal decisions - Upper Tribunal (Immigration and Asylum Chamber) Shabani (EEA - jobseekers; nursery education)
Page 8; Paragraph 10 from https://moj-tribunals-documents-prod.s3 ... _s_drc.pdf

7. Having reconsidered the position in light of the issues raised in this case, the respondent can confirm that she agrees that…it is accepted that someone who has come to the UK as a jobseeker, has obtained work, becomes unemployed, and then sought work again is a jobseeker within the meaning of the Directive and Article [sic] 6(1)(a) of the EEA Regulations

Page 18; Paragraph 51

51. The first matter in point is this. In the course of this case the respondent had made a concession in very clear terms: see above [10]. It is stated with reference to regulation 6(1)(a) of the 2006 EEA Regulations that the fact that a person has previously been a “Jobseeker” and then got employment will not disqualify him or her from being a “Jobseeker” if he or she ceases their employment and becomes a “Jobseeker” again


I found this case law that answers to an extent the question but what if I am a "three-time” jobseeker after having worked twice for four months in between? Such as this example...

"Although I was a “First-Time Jobseekers” and a “First-Time Worker”, a “Second-Time Jobseekers”, a “Second-Time Worker” and a “Third-Time Jobseekers”

At no time I registered as an unemployed person with the jobcentre because I had resigned from my previous jobs therefore not applying for benefits.

Thanks,

Trevor

[noajthan]

EEA Regs requires JC registration for jobseekers in order to retain worker status (for a limited period):
http://www.eearegulations.co.uk/Regs201 ... ulation_06

[tmonaghan]

Thanks noajthan, but this regulation does not apply to workers who have been employed for four months then resigned from their job. Unless I don't understand what they mean by Worker Status Retention, surely that only applies to unemployed person who has lost their jobs. In my case, I have quit to look for another job that will be deemed better for me. Can I still retain Worker Status after working for four months before resigning? If the latter is the case I should then be able to register with the JobCentre Plus even if I am not receiving any benefits because I resigned from my previous employment.

Thank you,

Trevor

[noajthan]

Thanks noajthan, but this regulation does not apply to workers who have been employed for four months then resigned from their job. Unless I don't understand what they mean by Worker Status Retention, surely that only applies to unemployed person who has lost their jobs. In my case, I have quit to look for another job that will be deemed better for me. Can I still retain Worker Status after working for four months before resigning? If the latter is the case I should then be able to register with the JobCentre Plus even if I am not receiving any benefits because I resigned from my previous employment.

Thank you,
Trevor

No, you can't retain worker status, as you stopped working voluntarily, unless its to undertake work-related vocational training.

See https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... 4_0EXT.pdf

If you want to take a sabbatical then make sure you fall into selfsufficient category; with CSI plus no benefits.

[tmonaghan]

Thanks noajthan