Urgent help needed for extension confusion !!!!

[Mak9878]

Hi everyone,
I hope everyone is best of their health.. I got visa back in April 2014 and company was established Jan 2014. Now my accounts are submitted as follows.
1) Jan 2014-Jan 2015 -->These were prepared by old accountant and he wrote in balance sheet for director loan as follows:
Creditors: amounts falling due within one year: 2015
Director's current account £_____

2)Jan 2015 - Jan 2016 --> These were prepared by new accountant and he wrote in balance sheet for director loan as follows:
Creditors: amounts falling due more than one year: 2016 2015
Director Loan £____ £____
Mr XYZ gave director loan of £___ which is unsecured and subordinated in favor of third party creditors.

3) Jan 2016 - Jan 2017 --> not yet submitted and it can be submitted within six months after due company establishment date but I have extension due in March..

Now my question are:
1)Are my accounts clearly mentioning director loan? (as many refusal coming over this issue)

2)Shall I submit my 3rd year accounts to Company house as extension due in end of march.

3)Do i need management accounts? as my accountant says you do not need management accounts if you submit accounts to Company house in this Feb 2017 or in early March 2017...you do not need management accounts at all? please guide

4)If i need management accounts, so how many months back or years back or may be just 1 month after end of January 2017 (that is end accounting period for my company)....please guide.

Accept my apologies for very long thread.

Yours early reply in this matter will be very much appreciated.

Thanks for your time and valuable information

Regards,
Nisha

[zimba]

There are so many threads on the forums covering the same topics:

http://www.immigrationboards.com/uk-tie ... 08860.html
http://www.immigrationboards.com/uk-tie ... 24253.html
http://www.immigrationboards.com/uk-tie ... ?#p1437025
http://www.immigrationboards.com/uk-tie ... 06218.html

[Mak9878]

There are so many threads on the forums covering the same topics:

http://www.immigrationboards.com/uk-tie ... 08860.html
http://www.immigrationboards.com/uk-tie ... 24253.html
http://www.immigrationboards.com/uk-tie ... ?#p1437025
http://www.immigrationboards.com/uk-tie ... 06218.html

thanks zumba...I have a look at them.

[babylondoner]

1. Your name must appear in the creditors section under director's loan. As your old accountant to amend and resend or ask your new accountant to fix it. If it's unfixable, then you might have to make up for the shortfall by investing the money again and ensuring it appears correctly in this year's annual accounts.

2. Yes

3. If your accounting year ends in late March, and you are applying early April, then there's no need for management accounts.

4. Management are only required for any period not covered in your regular accounting year. For example, if your company's accounting year end is 28th February 2017 and you are applying 2nd June 2017, you will need management accounts to cover the period 1st march 2017 to 31st May 2017.

[Mak9878]

1. Your name must appear in the creditors section under director's loan. As your old accountant to amend and resend or ask your new accountant to fix it. If it's unfixable, then you might have to make up for the shortfall by investing the money again and ensuring it appears correctly in this year's annual accounts.

2. Yes

3. If your accounting year ends in late March, and you are applying early April, then there's no need for management accounts.

4. Management are only required for any period not covered in your regular accounting year. For example, if your company's accounting year end is 28th February 2017 and you are applying 2nd June 2017, you will need management accounts to cover the period 1st march 2017 to 31st May 2017.

Thanks for your reply to remove confusion... So you mean the new accountant has made director loan entry with note exactly as per HO requirement and I should re-amend the old accountant 2014-2015 financial accounts..

My ending period for current year is 1-feb-2016 to 31st-Jan-2017, so i am applying by 3rd week of march for extension.. And i m going to submit my annual accounts by end of feb 2017 or first week of March 2017...

Do i still need management accounts for 1 and half month remaining after 31-Jan-2017 (accounts ending date)

waiting for your valuable reply anxiously...thanks alot

[Mak9878]

Hi Zimba,

Can you please explain...it is really making me confuse over management accounts...

As my accountant says u don't need management account because your all "director loan" investment finishes before your current accounting period i.e. 1st Feb 2016 to 31st Jan 2017 and he also give other reason that management accounts are prepared if there is more than 3 months gap after your accounting period than your application sending date.

And further accountant says we will submit your annual accounts in end of Feb, 2017 or 1st of week march 2017 and you are applying 3rd week of March,2017 so you don't need at all management accounts.


Very Confused....

Please guide

[zimba]

You do not need management accounts at all

[Mak9878]

You do not need management accounts at all

Hi Zimba

Thank you very much Zimba for your valuable reply in this matter.

I have little confusion in pre-april 2014 and post-april 2014 job creation.

I received my visa approval letter stating you application is approved in the end of March,2014. but BRP card got delayed and I had to email them. so it took time to deliver BRP card which show date of issue as mid of April,2014 now.. and now BRP card running out end of March 2017.

I do not have clue which rules pre-april 2014 or post april-2014 do i fall in.

I have 3 employees in total as follows:
1) 01-03-16 to 31-05-16 = full time 30 hour per week..lasted for 3 months and resigned with notice.
2) 01-03-16 to 28-02-17 = full time 30 hour per week... going to last for 12 months
3) 01-06-16 to 28-02-17 = full time 30 hour per week ... going to last for 9 months.

Is there any issue in my job creation? waiting for your reply anxiously. Thanks

[ishfaqsangra]

The Name against Directors Loan is not HMRC requirement but Home Office so if the name is mentioned in Management Accounts against the Directors Loan , it should be fine. No need to resubmit the earliest accounts as someone suggested on the post. However as your annual accounts are covering your all investment and as advised to submit them I am not sure if you need or you can amend the earliest one where there is Directors Loan but your name is not mentioned.

Mine first 2013-14 just appear as Directors Loan and submitted to HMRC
2014-15,2015-16 and Management accounts(I had to make them for 3 Months) all is mentioning
Directors Loan by Mr XXXX under Creditors amount falling due after 1 year
I dont think I should or I can amend the 2013-14 submitted to HMRC just to add my name, am I right Zimba
I just ensured that my management accounts should mention my name.

[Mak9878]

The Name against Directors Loan is not HMRC requirement but Home Office so if the name is mentioned in Management Accounts against the Directors Loan , it should be fine. No need to resubmit the earliest accounts as someone suggested on the post. However as your annual accounts are covering your all investment and as advised to submit them I am not sure if you need or you can amend the earliest one where there is Directors Loan but your name is not mentioned.

Mine first 2013-14 just appear as Directors Loan and submitted to HMRC
2014-15,2015-16 and Management accounts(I had to make them for 3 Months) all is mentioning
Directors Loan by Mr XXXX under Creditors amount falling due after 1 year
I dont think I should or I can amend the 2013-14 submitted to HMRC just to add my name, am I right Zimba
I just ensured that my management accounts should mention my name.

I have sent for amending my old accountant one which only say "Director's current account" but what about the new accountant he has mentioned a note below "director loan" that Mr xyz gave £___ to business etc

waiting for your reply..

[zimba]

I received my visa approval letter stating you application is approved in the end of March,2014. but BRP card got delayed and I had to email them. so it took time to deliver BRP card which show date of issue as mid of April,2014 now.. and now BRP card running out end of March 2017.

The date you APPLIED only matters, you APPLIED before 6 April 2014 and successfully entered the Tier 1E route. This is clear in the guide

[Mak9878]

I received my visa approval letter stating you application is approved in the end of March,2014. but BRP card got delayed and I had to email them. so it took time to deliver BRP card which show date of issue as mid of April,2014 now.. and now BRP card running out end of March 2017.

The date you APPLIED only matters, you APPLIED before 6 April 2014 and successfully entered the Tier 1E route. This is clear in the guide

thanks for your reply zimba...its really appreciated.

Are my employees requirement going on track to meet 2 jobs existed for 12 months as explained above.

waiting for your reply...Thanks

[zimba]

It seems you have 24 months of full time employment

[Mak9878]

It seems you have 24 months of full time employment

thanks Zimba very much...May God bless you

[Mak9878]

It seems you have 24 months of full time employment

can you advise about the documents which are to be signed, dated and stamp through my company stamp..

[zimba]

There are no such requirements in the rules to sign and stamp all those things. That is mostly something people made up here on this forum

[Mak9878]

There are no such requirements in the rules to sign and stamp all those things. That is mostly something people made up here on this forum

ohhhh...

[Mak9878]

Hi Zimba,

I have come to know an urgent issue regarding my application from solicitor that:

1)I have been injecting investment funds from my personal to business account and I was withdrawing my salary (while company was in loss for previous 2014-2015 and 2015-2016 yrs so obviously from director loan).. So does this reduce my director loan in business account...

2) 3rd year is in profit but not that more. but still i have been taking salary.

As you know you cant work in entrepreneur outside your company and you have to rely on company to give you salary for survival isn't it.

Waiting for your reply anxiously in this matter....

thanks

[Mak9878]

Hi everyone.

I have come to know an urgent issue regarding my application from solicitor that:

1)I have been injecting investment funds from my personal to business account and I was withdrawing my salary (while company was in loss for previous 2014-2015 and 2015-2016 yrs so obviously from director loan).. So does this reduce my director loan in business account which is 50,000 in total.

2) 3rd year is in profit but not that more. but still i have been taking salary 650 throughout 34 months i.e. £22100.

As you know you cant work in entrepreneur outside your company and you have to rely on company to give you salary for survival isn't it.

So will my director salary from business account to personal account for working and survival are deducted from total injected director loan of £50,000....plz guide very confused.

and if you can provide page number and section in policy guidance to this point if it exist...please let me know...

Waiting for your reply anxiously in this matter....

thanks

[tier1in2014]

If your company was in loss so any directors salary you took is out of the directors loan .

£xxxxx (Director loan ) - £xxxx (Directors salary) = Investment as directors loan . if this is less than 50k or 200k you will need to reinvest this as directors loan or HO will not award any points for investment . Make sure to put all the money back during initial leave before you are due Ext . Money can just stay in company account don't need to spend if not needed by company .

[sm12]

If you can, it's probably best to put the money back.
This is because you never know how HO will look at it.

Having said that, it is a bit illogical to suggest that the salary necessarily came from the investment if you are in loss.

E.g. if suppose a business has 50K investment and 30K revenue. Total funds 80K. And expenses are 40K. We can assume that this was your investment being spent, so you have 10K investment funds and 30K revenue funds left. Now why can't the person take out say 10K of the 30K revenue as salary?

[Mak9878]

If your company was in loss so any directors salary you took is out of the directors loan .

£xxxxx (Director loan ) - £xxxx (Directors salary) = Investment as directors loan . if this is less than 50k or 200k you will need to reinvest this as directors loan or HO will not award any points for investment . Make sure to put all the money back during initial leave before you are due Ext . Money can just stay in company account don't need to spend if not needed by company .

Thanks dear for your reply... I just quick question when the company was in loss for two yrs..Do we have to add business loss amount to business to make it even too.

My Case
Director Loan in 3 yrs 50,298.12
Profit in 3rd year (2 yrs was in loss) 963.57
Total 51,261.69
less salaries £650 for 3 years -21,330
Net Director Loan 29931.69

Director Loan needed to put (50,000 minus net director loan) 20,068.31

do i need to add loss as well back...

[Mak9878]

If you can, it's probably best to put the money back.
This is because you never know how HO will look at it.

Having said that, it is a bit illogical to suggest that the salary necessarily came from the investment if you are in loss.

E.g. if suppose a business has 50K investment and 30K revenue. Total funds 80K. And expenses are 40K. We can assume that this was your investment being spent, so you have 10K investment funds and 30K revenue funds left. Now why can't the person take out say 10K of the 30K revenue as salary?

Thanks for your reply... 1st year injected nearly 5000, 2nd year 22,000 and 3rd year which just ended January added 23000 director loan respectively.

So obviously there was loss in previous two yrs but there was sales rendered (revenue ) as well..

this 3rd year i have given sales services of 36,000 plus 23000 (director loan)..which accumulates total to 59,000

OR do we have to add total director loan with sales then deduct director salaries....can you explain?

OR is there any particular formula to find out your net director loan after deducting director salaries?

waiting for reply from all memebers too.

[sm12]

See, it is not clear from the guidance. From what I have read on this forum, you must be in profit to take a salary.

But as I explained in my post above, I am not sure why you cannot take the salary from your revenue and use your investment towards other expenses.
I think Zimba or one of the moderators might be able to advise.

[tier1in2014]

If your company was in loss so any directors salary you took is out of the directors loan .

£xxxxx (Director loan ) - £xxxx (Directors salary) = Investment as directors loan . if this is less than 50k or 200k you will need to reinvest this as directors loan or HO will not award any points for investment . Make sure to put all the money back during initial leave before you are due Ext . Money can just stay in company account don't need to spend if not needed by company .

Thanks dear for your reply... I just quick question when the company was in loss for two yrs..Do we have to add business loss amount to business to make it even too.

My Case
Director Loan in 3 yrs 50,298.12
Profit in 3rd year (2 yrs was in loss) 963.57
Total 51,261.69
less salaries £650 for 3 years -21,330
Net Director Loan 29931.69

Director Loan needed to put (50,000 minus net director loan) 20,068.31

do i need to add loss as well back...

Its best to put back at least 20,068.31 or little more back to your company account as directors loan . Loss or profit does not matter to HO . All they need money to be invested into your business as share capitol or Directors loan . Instead of confusing your self best to top up you directors loan from your personal account to business account as much required . please read the guide few times you will have most of the answers .