Please help seniors 'big GAP' in 10 years?

[Vantisha]

Hello seniors, I am going to apply for 10 year PR in Aug 2017.

Here is my 'GAP', please help me figure out if this will impact my application.

30 SEP 2008 expiry date of my visa.
10 SEP 2008 in time application was sent.
12 SEP 2008 HO received my application and charged the application fee on the same day

12 NOV 2008 HO sent me my application form with marked 'wrong form/invalid'
It included a blank application form for me to fill in, as well as an envelope with address on:
TO:initial consideration unit, immigration and nationality directorate, Sheffield. It also had my HO Ref. written on the envelope. (I did not receive my other documents, they only asked me to resend the form)

16 NOV 2008 the application form was filled and sent
11 FEB 2009 I had my visa/biometric card

Here are my questions:
1.My initial application was marked 'invalid' although I submitted a in time application. I then 'overstayed' from 01 OCT 2008-16 NOV 2008.
Below is what I found:
'An invalid application does not extend leave under section 3C of the 1971 Act (as per Iqbal & Ors, R (on the application of) v The Secretary of State for the Home Department [2015] EWCA Civ 838, mentioned below)'
However, this is beyond my control that I received HO's reply (12 NOV 2008) a month my current visa expired(30 SEP 2008). Just want to know, if Section 3C leave extended on my case?

2.The application fee was taken on 12 SEP 2008 with a payment reference. Does this makes any difference on my case?

3.If my continuous residency broken in 2008, or not?

Thank you very much for your time and patient! Wish all of us the best of luck!

[vinny]

Why had they considered the application to be invalid? What category were you applying for and what form did you use, etc?

[Vantisha]

Why had they considered the application to be invalid? What category were you applying for and what form did you use, etc?

Thank you Vinny for your reply.

The application was for tier 4 student extension. My previous visa was under the same category.

'invalid' and 'wrong form' was written on my old form when HO sent back a large envelope on 12 NOV 2008. I also received a blank application form and an envelope for me to fill in and post.

So that I guess I might used an old version of the application form.(I tried to search for some evidence if the application form was updated in SEP 2008 unfortunately I could not find any.)

Thank you so much if you could give me any advice on this because I am very worried on this. Kind regards,

[secret.simon]

The webarchive of the UKBA website in August 2008

It seems that a new set of forms were released on 18th August that year. Did you apply on that form or one older than that?

There is a tribunal decision from 2011 (of a similar rejection in 2009, so likely under similar rules)that may be of interest.

An invalid application is treated as one never made/that does not exist and so can not extend Section 3C leave.

[Abc499]

30 SEP 2008 expiry date of my visa.
10 SEP 2008 in time application was sent.
12 SEP 2008 HO received my application and charged the application fee on the same day

12 NOV 2008 HO sent me my application form with marked 'wrong form/invalid'
It included a blank application form for me to fill in, as well as an envelope with address on:
TO:initial consideration unit, immigration and nationality directorate, Sheffield. It also had my HO Ref. written on the envelope. (I did not receive my other documents, they only asked me to resend the form)

16 NOV 2008 the application form was filled and sent
11 FEB 2009 I had my visa/biometric card


Below is what I found:
'An invalid application does not extend leave under section 3C of the 1971 Act (as per Iqbal & Ors, R (on the application of) v The Secretary of State for the Home Department [2015] EWCA Civ 838, mentioned below)'


2.The application fee was taken on 12 SEP 2008 with a payment reference. Does this makes any difference on my case?

!

Not sure it make any difference in law or not but wondering to something if you have that info.
1. you mention fees deducted on 12th September 2008. So they did not take any fees when you sent the 2nd application?
2. Will you be able to see the letter that you received from HO (app outcome confirmation) on 11th feb 2009. what is the ref number used here? is that the first application ref or different?


You will get the exact info only from SAR, but I am thinking if they do not take 2nd application payment and use the same case ref then is that could be something that they treat your application as same application and they give you a chance to send the correct application form

you can provide this info which I mention, I will not be able to comment but seniors may be able to help if this make any difference.

[Abc499]

In addition, what they exactly mention on the letter when they send you new application form? is it your form invalid or your application invalid ! I am thinking you could be very lucky that your case worker may be did not made they application invalid but made the form invalid and ask you to fill up new form (like asking additional documents). If no fees taken on 2nd application, visa approval letter have same ref of 1st one then this could be! you can check the wording of those letters again carefully. I could be completely wrong but I wish your case is this and the form was invalid but they did not made your application invalid and they proceed with same application after they receive your new form!!!

[Vantisha]

The webarchive of the UKBA website in August 2008

It seems that a new set of forms were released on 18th August that year. Did you apply on that form or one older than that?

There is a tribunal decision from 2011 (of a similar rejection in 2009, so likely under similar rules)that may be of interest.

An invalid application is treated as one never made/that does not exist and so can not extend Section 3C leave.

Thank you very much Secret Simon for your reply.
I will take a look of the tribunal decision.
I am not sure what exactly HO commented my record, only 'wrong form' was written on the returned form.
So I have applied SAR yesterday to take a further check.
If this time period will be regarded as a gap due to the invalid application, then I will need to be prepared for a refusal on my PR application.

[Vantisha]

In addition, what they exactly mention on the letter when they send you new application form? is it your form invalid or your application invalid ! I am thinking you could be very lucky that your case worker may be did not made they application invalid but made the form invalid and ask you to fill up new form (like asking additional documents). If no fees taken on 2nd application, visa approval letter have same ref of 1st one then this could be! you can check the wording of those letters again carefully. I could be completely wrong but I wish your case is this and the form was invalid but they did not made your application invalid and they proceed with same application after they receive your new form!!!

Thank you for your reply Abe499!

I have requested SAR yesterday for a further check of the records.
I have also requested a historical bank statement from my bank back to that period. As I could remember that only one fee was charged on my application which is on 12th Sep 2008. However I will take a look of the bank statement I ordered to double confirm that.
Thank you

[jengland]

hello,
I had almost the same case in 2014.
- in-time application on 05 sept 2014
-biometric about 3weeks later
- 15 Nov 2014 HO returned my application as invalid, asked me to fill correct form and return within 7days which I complied with full application fee.
- 10 dec 2014 HO paid me the application fee of the invalid form
- 17 dec 2014 refusal notice with right to appeal and there is no where that was written in refusal letter mentioning any implication of my subsequence application as you are thinking.
since your application was not refused, the new application has been linked with the invalid and work is in progress. so don't worry. it is well

[Leeee704]

Vantisha

Dear Vantisha,

i am in the same boat. I have seen 2 solicitors today aswell. below is my history:

30 JUNE 2009 Made on time application. 3rd july acknowledgement received.
13 July application back with the letter stated that my pictures are not according to the requirement (Prob they invalidated my application) but can not remember it.
sent my application back on the same date with the right pics
biometric done on 24th July 2009

College revoked from tier 4 list changed my college and update HO with covering letter

Refusal received in dec 2009 with no right of appeal coz they considered my application from 13 july not 30 June 2009.

I fought my case and when Lodged JR HO reconsidered my application for 13 JULY 2009.

So Basically 1st there was a 13 days Gap because of wrong pics and 2nd what about the time i spent untill my HO Reconsideration.

one solicitor said there is a big potential risk if i go for SET(LR) and also said that less 28 days gap is ok but not more.

Malik Law said As far as they reconsidered you are covered and section 3c continues.

IN YOUR CASE THERE IS A BIG GAP BUT YOU WAS LUCK THEY DID NOT REFUSE IT AND ASKED TO REFILL. I DO NOT THINK SO THAT YOUR SECTION 3C BREAKS BUT

POINT TO BE NOTED HERE

THEY CONSIDERED MY APPLICATION FROM 13 JULY2009 NOT THE 30 JUNE2009 SO THAT MEANS that time is not countable that is for sure. i have 13 days gap you have 1 month and 12 days.
I am gonna see more people about it will update you.

[Vantisha]

Hello everyone, thank you so much for your replies.

I have got my SAR today and please allow me to fill my case in more details.

30 SEP 2008 expiry date of my current student visa.
11 SEP 2008 in time application for student visa extension. SAR marked as 'case raised date'
12 SEP 2008 HO received my application and charged the application fee on the same day
19 SEP 2008 HO marked my application as 'invalid' and was rejected due to the reason of wrong form used.
'The applicant has completed FLR(S)Version 04/2007, Date if application is 11/09/09, applicant should complete FLS(S)Version 08/2008'

12 NOV 2008 Date marked as 'Outcome date' for my 'rejected' application.
13 NOV 2008 HO returned one new form for me to fill in, and all my documents. I then filled and returned to HO.
26 NOV 2008 This is another case raised date for my 'new application'
1 DEC 2008 'Application fee' again was taken showing on SAR. This is very odd?!! PS:I will expand this later
11 FEB 2009 I had my visa/biometric card another 'Outcome date' marked on SAR

Points to be noted:
1.To me, in the worst scenario, it looks like my continuous stay was broken from 1 OCT 2008 to 11 FEB 2009 . 1st in time but invalid application 11 SEP 2008 was not protected by section 3C. 2nd out of time application 26 NOV 2008 was not protected under section 3C. Break or not? Please have your say.

2. However, I have double checked on my historical bank statements back to 2008. I can confirm that the money was taken ONCE ONLY on 12 SEP 2009. HO did not offer me a refund when they decided the 'rejection'. Also on my second application(26 NOV 2008), there was a fee charge date of 1 DEC 2008, however this fee had a same reference number with the previous payment(12 SEP 2009). On my bank statements there were no other payments taken by HO in NOV and DEC. Will the two applications be treated as one?

3. Also based on the Section 3C 'validated applications' If my application dropped into this situation? I did not keep the letter HO sent me in NOV 2008, and could not find it in SAR. Really cannot remember if I was offered the opportunity to correct my application to validate my 'invalid application'?

4. HO released my documents in November. (HO's fault of delaying in returning the applicant's documents? Causing the applicant becoming an overstayer?)

Thank you again for all helpers!

[Vantisha]

hello,
I had almost the same case in 2014.
- in-time application on 05 sept 2014
-biometric about 3weeks later
- 15 Nov 2014 HO returned my application as invalid, asked me to fill correct form and return within 7days which I complied with full application fee.
- 10 dec 2014 HO paid me the application fee of the invalid form
- 17 dec 2014 refusal notice with right to appeal and there is no where that was written in refusal letter mentioning any implication of my subsequence application as you are thinking.
since your application was not refused, the new application has been linked with the invalid and work is in progress. so don't worry. it is well

Thank you for your reply jengland

[Vantisha]

Vantisha

Dear Vantisha,

i am in the same boat. I have seen 2 solicitors today aswell. below is my history:

30 JUNE 2009 Made on time application. 3rd july acknowledgement received.
13 July application back with the letter stated that my pictures are not according to the requirement (Prob they invalidated my application) but can not remember it.
sent my application back on the same date with the right pics
biometric done on 24th July 2009

College revoked from tier 4 list changed my college and update HO with covering letter

Refusal received in dec 2009 with no right of appeal coz they considered my application from 13 july not 30 June 2009.

I fought my case and when Lodged JR HO reconsidered my application for 13 JULY 2009.

So Basically 1st there was a 13 days Gap because of wrong pics and 2nd what about the time i spent untill my HO Reconsideration.

one solicitor said there is a big potential risk if i go for SET(LR) and also said that less 28 days gap is ok but not more.

Malik Law said As far as they reconsidered you are covered and section 3c continues.

IN YOUR CASE THERE IS A BIG GAP BUT YOU WAS LUCK THEY DID NOT REFUSE IT AND ASKED TO REFILL. I DO NOT THINK SO THAT YOUR SECTION 3C BREAKS BUT

POINT TO BE NOTED HERE

THEY CONSIDERED MY APPLICATION FROM 13 JULY2009 NOT THE 30 JUNE2009 SO THAT MEANS that time is not countable that is for sure. i have 13 days gap you have 1 month and 12 days.
I am gonna see more people about it will update you.

Hello Leeee704,

Thank you very much for your reply.

You are very lucky having a small 'gap' for 13 days. This should not be a problem in your ILR application since the gap is less than 28days.

This became a bit complicated in my case since I am having a gap for months(2008.10.01-2009.02.11)
Because my 2nd application was on 26 NOV 2008, this is an out-of-time application, therefore section 3C will not protect. The gap will be calculated from the day current LTR expires till the day a new LTR was granted. Anyway, I will consult with solicitors this week.

Wish you the best on your application

[Vantisha]

Hello everyone, thank you so much for your replies.

I have got my SAR today and please allow me to fill my case in more details.

30 SEP 2008 expiry date of my current student visa.
11 SEP 2008 in time application for student visa extension. SAR marked as 'case raised date'
12 SEP 2008 HO received my application and charged the application fee on the same day
19 SEP 2008 HO marked my application as 'invalid' and was rejected due to the reason of wrong form used.
'The applicant has completed FLR(S)Version 04/2007, Date if application is 11/09/09, applicant should complete FLS(S)Version 08/2008'

12 NOV 2008 Date marked as 'Outcome date' for my 'rejected' application.
13 NOV 2008 HO returned one new form for me to fill in, and all my documents. I then filled and returned to HO.
26 NOV 2008 This is another case raised date for my 'new application'
1 DEC 2008 'Application fee' again was taken showing on SAR. This is very odd?!! PS:I will expand this later
11 FEB 2009 I had my visa/biometric card another 'Outcome date' marked on SAR

Points to be noted:
1.To me, in the worst scenario, it looks like my continuous stay was broken from 1 OCT 2008 to 11 FEB 2009 . 1st in time but invalid application 11 SEP 2008 was not protected by section 3C. 2nd out of time application 26 NOV 2008 was not protected under section 3C. Break or not? Please have your say.

2. However, I have double checked on my historical bank statements back to 2008. I can confirm that the money was taken ONCE ONLY on 12 SEP 2009. HO did not offer me a refund when they decided the 'rejection'. Also on my second application(26 NOV 2008), there was a fee charge date of 1 DEC 2008, however this fee had a same reference number with the previous payment(12 SEP 2009). On my bank statements there were no other payments taken by HO in NOV and DEC. Will the two applications be treated as one?

3. Also based on the Section 3C 'validated applications' If my application dropped into this situation? I did not keep the letter HO sent me in NOV 2008, and could not find it in SAR. Really cannot remember if I was offered the opportunity to correct my application to validate my 'invalid application'?

4. HO released my documents in November. (HO's fault of delaying in returning the applicant's documents? Causing the applicant becoming an overstayer?)

Thank you again for all helpers!

SAR received! Update 2017/04/25

Please help seniors, have your say thank you