PR Refused - Please help review

[Chelsuz85]

I apologise if this seems too long..

I am non-EEA resident in the United Kingdom. I was married to an EEA person from 2004 until 2016.
We lived in Germany, had 3 kids and then moved to UK in 2010, I went on to have another child in the UK.
Due to a series of domestic abuse and all, I finally took the decision to leave in 2013 and subsequent divorce which certificate was approved and granted in 2016. I reside with my children in a different county from my ex-husband.

Now, upon entry into UK in 2010, I applied for and got 5 years EEA residence card in 2011 which expired in March 2016, so in January 2016, (I was still married at this time) I applied for a permanent residence card, I did the biometrics and a few days to the 6 months deadine, I got a letter which stated that I was refused because they treated it as me still being married as there was no divorce certificate provided and as they were unable to reach my husband at the time to verify his exercising treaty rights in the UK, I was denied; I was given right to appeal.

I was able to get intouch with my ex and I got his work history which showed him exercising treaty rights from 2011 up until 2016, and then the divorce was finalised and I also had the certificate; I discussed with an immigration adviser who told me that the route I had to go through is the "Retained rights of Residence". I got together all the documents I previously used to apply and then added the new documents (evidence of treaty rights as well as divorce certificate) also copies of the PR for my children as they are all german. I submitted these in Aug 2016, Sep 2016 - I did the biometrics again. I did not hear anything else from the HO. I called them earlier this month to ask what is going on as I have not heard anything, they told me that my application is still being considered. I mentioned that I had not received any COA; I was asked to email the department responsible. I eventually a couple of weeks ago got a COA dated 30 Dec 2016 even though I finished everything in Sep 2016.

Seeing this whole thing is now more than a year as the first application I made was in Jan 2016. Is there anything I am to do or should I just wait until I hear back from them? My father is ill and I wanted to take my children to go and see him.

[vinny]

Actually, if you have completed at least 5 years under the EEA regulations, then you may have automatically acquired PR prior to your divorce.

Appeal or apply for PR again. Just supply evidence that he was a qualified person for at least 5 years while you were married to him. If he was qualified person for less than 5 years, then supply evidence that you retained rights upto PR.

[Chelsuz85]

Actually, if you have completed at least 5 years under the EEA regulations, then you may have automatically acquired PR prior to your divorce.

Appeal or apply for PR again. Just supply evidence that he was a qualified person for at least 5 years while you were married to him. If he was qualified person for less than 5 years, then supply evidence that you retained rights upto PR.

Thank you Vinny, Evidence submitted for his treaty right was from 2011 upto 2016 and I would assume that is for 5 years. Together with that, I also submitted my own payslips dating from 2013 upto 2016 for the job that I do. is there a particular evidence I needed to have submitted?

[vinny]

Evidence that you were also residing in the U.K. from 2011, etc.

[Chelsuz85]

Evidence that you were also residing in the U.K. from 2011, etc.

Thank you. They have my passport which shows that for the past 6-7years; I have not been outside of UK for more than 30days in total.

[vinny]

If your passort wasn't stamped on entry and exits, then, during the periods that you were not working, you may need to provide more.

[Chelsuz85]

If your passort wasn't stamped on entry and exits, then, during the periods that you were not working, you may need to provide more.

My passport was duly stamped(entry and exit)

My emphasis although lies in the point of the category of PR that I applied for which is right to retain having attained my divorce. Was I right to have applied in that category?
Just that it has taken too long Sep, Oct, Nov, Dec, Jan, Feb and now Mar and not heard anything; although upon constant calls; I eventually got my CoA dated Dec 2016. Is this application meant to be counting from the dated CoA or??

[Chelsuz85]

Hello all, I need your help please.

I applied for PR in Jan 2016 and in June, I was refused because the HO said I did not provide proof of treaty rights of my ex-partner.
I went ahead to get these documents from my ex-husband and I reapplied to the HO in Aug 2016. prior to this, I was married to my now ex-husband who is an EEA national from 2004 until 2016 when we divorced, prior to that, we separated in 2013 and that was after we moved to the UK in 2010. During our separation and subsequent divorce in 2016, my 4 children who are all EEA national live with me and continue to live with me.
I applied on the basis of retained rights of residence, at the point of my application, I included the certificate to an entitlement to a decree. However today 01/04; I got a letter which states that I have been refused and the reasons set out as

You have applied for PR on the basis that you are a family member of an EEA national and that you have resided in the Uk with that EEA national in accordance with Immigration EEA regulation for a period of 5 years. However you have not resided in the UK in accordance with those regulations during that 5 year. It is noted that you and your sponsor have separated and you have commenced divorce proceedings, however although you provided a certificate to a decree, until your divorce is finalised and you have provided a decree absolute, this office cannot consider your application under retained rights of residence. Therefore, your application has been assessed on the basis that you are spouse of an EEA national.

You have stated that your marriage broke don as a result of domestic violence sometime in 2013, in order to prove domestic violence, a supporting document must be included (I did call the police in 2012 and my now ex-husband was taken out of the house, although I did not pursue it further, all I wanted was at that point was to leave)

You have stated that your EEA family member is a self-employed person, however:

- You have not provided evidence that they are paying VAT as a self-employed person (this was provided to them)
- You have not provided proof of their earnings (What if he was paid in cash? He did not give me this documents)
- You have not provided proof that their business is actively trading (Not sure what to have provided here)

- You have only provided 3 self-assessments from 2013-2015 and no evidence that the tax has been paid (i provided them with his proof of work PAYE I believe that was for 2011 and 2012 and then self-assessment from 2013-2016 and the TAX paid which could be verified with the HMRC I suppose)

They said I am entitled to make a new application if I have further evidence that my family member is exercising treaty rights in the Uk or I am entitled to an appeal on the grounds that the decision breaches my rights under the EU treaties.

Since 2016 till now, I have now received the Decree Absolute in October 2016. Can someone please advise me on what best I have to do. I look forward to your kind response.

[Chelsuz85]

Hello all, I need your help please.

I applied for PR in Jan 2016 and in June, I was refused because the HO said I did not provide proof of treaty rights of my ex-partner.
I went ahead to get these documents from my ex-husband and I reapplied to the HO in Aug 2016. prior to this, I was married to my now ex-husband who is an EEA national from 2004 until 2016 when we divorced, prior to that, we separated in 2013 and that was after we moved to the UK in 2010. During our separation and subsequent divorce in 2016, my 4 children who are all EEA national live with me and continue to live with me.
I applied on the basis of retained rights of residence, at the point of my application, I included the certificate to an entitlement to a decree. However today 01/04; I got a letter which states that I have been refused and the reasons set out as

You have applied for PR on the basis that you are a family member of an EEA national and that you have resided in the Uk with that EEA national in accordance with Immigration EEA regulation for a period of 5 years. However you have not resided in the UK in accordance with those regulations during that 5 year. It is noted that you and your sponsor have separated and you have commenced divorce proceedings, however although you provided a certificate to a decree, until your divorce is finalised and you have provided a decree absolute, this office cannot consider your application under retained rights of residence. Therefore, your application has been assessed on the basis that you are spouse of an EEA national.

You have stated that your marriage broke don as a result of domestic violence sometime in 2013, in order to prove domestic violence, a supporting document must be included (I did call the police in 2012 and my now ex-husband was taken out of the house, although I did not pursue it further, all I wanted was at that point was to leave)

You have stated that your EEA family member is a self-employed person, however:

- You have not provided evidence that they are paying VAT as a self-employed person (this was provided to them)
- You have not provided proof of their earnings (What if he was paid in cash? He did not give me this documents)
- You have not provided proof that their business is actively trading (Not sure what to have provided here)

- You have only provided 3 self-assessments from 2013-2015 and no evidence that the tax has been paid (i provided them with his proof of work PAYE I believe that was for 2011 and 2012 and then self-assessment from 2013-2016 and the TAX paid which could be verified with the HMRC I suppose)

They said I am entitled to make a new application if I have further evidence that my family member is exercising treaty rights in the Uk or I am entitled to an appeal on the grounds that the decision breaches my rights under the EU treaties.

Since 2016 till now, I have now received the Decree Absolute in October 2016. Can someone please advise me on what best I have to do. I look forward to your kind response.

Please can anyone help me with the best steps to take? Thanks

[Wise]

Prepare yourself again as there is still hope to reapply. Look properly the refusal letter and get all what is missing and provided you can get all your ex husband treaty right for 6/8 month in a year from either 2010 tof 2015 or 2011 to 2016 when you receive your divorce cert.

Also regarding the issue of self employment you may ask your ex to help even if he hasn't paid tax in the past he can still pay it now with late payment fee I think is £100 likewise with vat if needed because not all self employment need to pay vat.

Regarding domestic abuse, if you can proof a well sufficient treaty right documents they may not bother on it anymore as you're not standing on that alone to retain your right.


Good luck

[Chelsuz85]

Prepare yourself again as there is still hope to reapply. Look properly the refusal letter and get all what is missing and provided you can get all your ex husband treaty right for 6/8 month in a year from either 2010 tof 2015 or 2011 to 2016 when you receive your divorce cert.

Also regarding the issue of self employment you may ask your ex to help even if he hasn't paid tax in the past he can still pay it now with late payment fee I think is £100 likewise with vat if needed because not all self employment need to pay vat.

Regarding domestic abuse, if you can proof a well sufficient treaty right documents they may not bother on it anymore as you're not standing on that alone to retain your right.


Good luck

Thanks Wise, In terms of tax. I am 100% certain the tax were paid as I was the one who made the payment for them early in 2016 for 2013/2014/2015.

We moved to Uk in Sep 2010; I provided his p60 for 2011 and 2012 and then his self-assessments for 2013, 2014 and 2015 and as mentioned, all tax were duly paid for those self-assessment periods. Those covers 5years I believe.

Can I appeal and at the same time still re-apply?
However, their refusal letter stated that I did not show proof of his earnings. He gets cash payment I believe.
They also stated that there was no proof to show his business is still active, what am I meant to do in this instance?

However, do not forget that according to them, they reviewed my application as the spouse of an EEA national as I hadn't provided them with the decree absolute even though I posted it at a later date when I got it. If they are to now treat it as retained rights of residence, do I need to provide the proof of earnings even though he gets paid cash. How do I prove the tax payment was made? Bank print out? Also proof that business is still active?

[Wise]

1, if you help him to pay his tax this year you should have the receipt of payment with you. Did you not pay it through company account?

2, Cash in hand doesn't matter as long as the money is going into company acct. Try and get statement account and if it is printed out let the bank put there official stamp on it before you submit it, invoice, business cards etc.

3, Proving the tax payment, you can call the hmrc to send you the letter.

4, Regarding the active of the company, they must have check the company house website to check the status of the company. If it is just a sole trader don't worry about that you don't need to be on company house register as only active limited liability companies you can view their details on that website. Also not all sole trader pay vat depend on your sales.

5, They will not treat your application as ROR and it is because you both married and lived in UK for more than 5 years before you divorce.

Good Luck

6, You may re apply with a legal person to help you out as this is your second time of refusal this year and add your divorce cert, letter to ask them to check your ex employment history from hmrc on your behalf as you are divorced but you need to convince them with little amount you can provide.

[Chelsuz85]

Thank you Wise, please is it possible to appeal and re-apply for PR at the same time?

[Chelsuz85]

Hello Please can someone help me out..

With regards to appeal, does the judge focus on the documents supplied to home office only or can I tender new/updated evidence in court?

Also please, can I appeal and re-apply same time?

Your kind response will be appreciated.

[Wise]

Yes you can do both depend on the situation but from what I can see in your case may just appeal because if the Judge in convince with your paperwork he/she might just ask HO to just issued your PR without the need to reapply.

However my advise again is you to be represented by legal person unless you are confident that you know what to say during the hearing if any question ask. Obviously the Judge will go through the documents base on HO refusal and ask for more evidence if needed and make decision.

Lastly where you stay will determine the appeal date also if they give you more than six month date I personally will just reapply with clear more evidence. Let me know if I might be of help.


Good Luck

[Chelsuz85]

Thank you so much Wise. I have filed an appeal and just gathering as much evidence as I can and wait for the date and see what I can do.
I can confidently answer any question thrown at me by the Judge or the HO representative (I have been to court thrice when my ex took me and he had solicitors, I couldn't afford one; I won though... all three times!) However, I will also seek the counsel of a lawyer prior to then. If it is something that I can be able to afford, then I will go ahead with it.

Why does proximity determine appeal date? I stay in the Manchester area though; not sure if or how that helps... Although I added a cover letter asking for expedited hearing based on compassionate ground (my father being seriously ill) though I do not have a letter from the hospital where he is admitted.

Thanks again for taking the time to answer my questions, I do appreciate.

[Wise]

I ask because some people do get very long date for their appeal and again it all depend on the number of cases they already have. But am close to Manchester too I think you may get date quickly.

Likewise if you reapply and appeal at the same time most time what HO always do is ones it state in your new application letter including more documents that you have appeal at the same time they may just decide on the new one and ask you/they will ignore the appeal process because the court will write them as soon as they receive your case anyway.

[Chelsuz85]

Whereabouts in Manchester are you? Am I allowed to ask?
Unfortunately, it says I am not allowed to read private messages.

Sometimes some lawyers do misguide one, all they care about it taking the money. When I reapplied in August, it was at the direction of a lawyer who first of all took money and all they did was write a cover letter and NOTHING else. No response to my emails or calls.

Now, I have heard from three different lawyers, 2 said I can appeal and re-apply at the same time and 1 says I actually cannot have 2 things going on at the same time.

[Wise]

Just want to see if I can be of any help in viewing your paperwork and may be I can borrow you my own wisdom too. odo,eje,eje,eta,odo,erin,eta,erin,esan,eje,eta.(Bolton)

[Wise]

I hope you understand yoruba language though.

[Chelsuz85]

I have a teacher...

[Chelsuz85]

Please, I have a question; during the appeal process, are new documents accepted or is the judge dependant only on the documents used for the refusal?

[Chelsuz85]

Hello house,

I want to make a further application with my appeal still in the tribunal, I am yet to get a hearing date.
I have spoken to a few immigration lawyers and with their average price being £1,000 to help with the further new application that I want to make; this is however very expensive for me.

They have stated that the most basic thing that they would do is writing a cover letter that will go with my application. I unfortunately, do not have that amount to go ahead with that and I have decided to write my own cover letter. I have come up with something that I will like the help of the house to review for me. CR001, obie, vinny, casa - please can you be able to help me review what I have written as a cover letter for my application?
Please, I just want to get it right this time and I need all the help that I can get.

[Carling40]

Hi Chelsuz85
In an appeal oral or paper, new documents are accepted by the judge. To be honest your case is only as strong as the evidence your'e able to provide. The advice you get on here is from people who've walked the same path as you and had dealings with these cretins, and best of is free compared to some solicitors who are about earning a living.
You can make a new application whilst your appeal is pending, a lot of the advice you've received in the thread is spot on.
I'd like to clarify a few things for you if i may and hopefully help you focus on what you need to prove. You're applying for confirmation of PR based on 5 years residence and EEA treaty rights of your ex spouse from 2011-2016. Don't confuse matters or yourself with retention of rights application. Divorce after the 5 year period doesn't change the fact you acquired PR prior to decree absolute. i.e you're still married until date of decree absolute.
As your ex was self employed, i'd suggest you try to get the below (original copies):
1.contact your ex to ask the HMRC for an (SA302) for the relevant period (2011-2016). o
2.provide any evidence of how the business was advertised, yellow pages, leaflets, flyers.
3. any receipts/slips showing payments of tax and NI contributions.
In my personal opinion and based on personal experience you don't as a MUST have to provide his bank statements. The key here is to have as many evidences from different sources, more over you're now divorced.
4. evidence of your own economic activity from date of date of decree absolute, although this has no bearing on your application its good to show you're able to support yourself.
If it helps reassure you, i've been through the same journey as you and all my help came from this board.
I'd suggest you make use of labels to point out the documents and keep your cover letter simple and straight to the point, think of presenting something to a child.
you can post a draft of your cover letter without personal details and i'm everyone on the board will chip in with their 2 cents. Keep your head up.

[Chelsuz85]

Hi Chelsuz85
In an appeal oral or paper, new documents are accepted by the judge. To be honest your case is only as strong as the evidence your'e able to provide. The advice you get on here is from people who've walked the same path as you and had dealings with these cretins, and best of is free compared to some solicitors who are about earning a living.
You can make a new application whilst your appeal is pending, a lot of the advice you've received in the thread is spot on.
I'd like to clarify a few things for you if i may and hopefully help you focus on what you need to prove. You're applying for confirmation of PR based on 5 years residence and EEA treaty rights of your ex spouse from 2011-2016. Don't confuse matters or yourself with retention of rights application. Divorce after the 5 year period doesn't change the fact you acquired PR prior to decree absolute. i.e you're still married until date of decree absolute.
As your ex was self employed, i'd suggest you try to get the below (original copies):
1.contact your ex to ask the HMRC for an (SA302) for the relevant period (2011-2016). o
2.provide any evidence of how the business was advertised, yellow pages, leaflets, flyers.
3. any receipts/slips showing payments of tax and NI contributions.
In my personal opinion and based on personal experience you don't as a MUST have to provide his bank statements. The key here is to have as many evidences from different sources, more over you're now divorced.
4. evidence of your own economic activity from date of date of decree absolute, although this has no bearing on your application its good to show you're able to support yourself.
If it helps reassure you, i've been through the same journey as you and all my help came from this board.
I'd suggest you make use of labels to point out the documents and keep your cover letter simple and straight to the point, think of presenting something to a child.
you can post a draft of your cover letter without personal details and i'm everyone on the board will chip in with their 2 cents. Keep your head up.

Thank you ever so much Carling40, your response is quite appreciated. I will put it down here below