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Unmarried Partner visa - exceptions, anyone?

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Marriage | Unmarried Partners | Fiancé | Ancestry

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Hopenotlost
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Unmarried Partner visa - exceptions, anyone?

Post by Hopenotlost » Sat Apr 08, 2017 10:10 pm

My British partner (living in the UK) and I (Russian citizen living in Russia) have been in a long-distance relationship for 4 years 8 months. We have a 40 month old daughter together who was born in Russia but is a British passport holder. Little one is growing up and demands to see MUCH more of her dad, and I'm missing him like mad and cannot stand any more goodbyes. Our circumstances have changed somewhat as I will soon be sending my eldest daughter to join her father in another country where she's been admitted into a school - she was a major factor keeping me in Russia, while my partner has had work (he could not earn here what he earns in the UK) and family ties (ageing parents etc.) in the UK. Having come across the words "Unmarried Partner" on the website I got excited just before seeing the requirement of having lived together for 2 years, so I called UKVI to ask them whether I stood a chance anyway. Once again, I'm Russian and we love all things British (only half joking) so needless to say I had no reason not to trust the lady on the phone and yelled "Yay!" when she told me VERY CLEARLY that it did NOT matter that we had not lived together and that I still qualified. So, I spoke to my partner to give him the good news, started on the application and then called UKVI again with some more questions I had. Funnily enough, they also told me that since we have a child together no proof of relationship other than the original of our daughter's birth certificate (+ a certified translation, as it is in Russian) was required! A while later, looking for some info online I came across this and some other forums where people were asking whether they would be ok to apply despite not having lived together at all or long enough and the answer was NO. My heart skipped a beat so I called UKVI once more and asked the man on the phone whether I qualified having presented my case in detail. He asked me some questions and told me that I did! Having filled out 98% of both the application and Appendix 2, paid for and taken the damn English test with only the Tuberculosis test left to take and just a couple of other docs left to put together I was still reluctant to submit my application - the money is huge (and I cannot believed they have just raised the fee!) and I didn't want to risk it. So, I had my partner call UKVI asking to speak to a case manager (?) who told him that I didn't qualify!

I am devastated, had no idea I was paying so much to speak to people who either have no idea what they're talking about or do this on purpose as a way to raise revenue... Anyhow, is there any way that we could argue that this would be for the (HUGE!) benefit for our child, and that while she could, of course, live with her dad, he must work and could not take proper care of a youngster? Would it make sense to consult an immigration lawyer (anyone any of you could recommend?) who could advise on a way to proceed with the application for a decent chance of being granted the visa? Any success stories and/or tips would be greatly appreciated.

Wanderer
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Re: Unmarried Partner visa - exceptions, anyone?

Post by Wanderer » Sat Apr 08, 2017 10:52 pm

The UKVI help line it notorious for handing out wrong information, I'm afraid.

The two years is set in stone, as know this because we got one (my partner is Russian too) - we had to do the two years with a combination of student visa and work permits, was very hard and very expensive even back then when it was generally cheaper and easier.

There's no way forward really I'm afraid without either doing it the way we did or actually getting married. Any reason why you can't?
An chéad stad eile Stáisiún Uí Chonghaile....

Hopenotlost
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Re: Unmarried Partner visa - exceptions, anyone?

Post by Hopenotlost » Sat Apr 08, 2017 11:48 pm

Thank you for your response. Sadly, getting married isn't an option at this point in time, which is why I got so excited having come across a possibility (as if!) to do this without/before getting married.

I cannot believe I have tears left. I am so falling in love with a local in my next life...

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Casa
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Re: Unmarried Partner visa - exceptions, anyone?

Post by Casa » Sun Apr 09, 2017 9:58 am

I believe that the UKVI 'help line' service is outsourced to an agency. Judging by the high number of reports on the forum of seriously flawed advice given, the staff appear to be poorly trained in even the most basic of Immigration Rules.

This article by Freemovement explains the situation well.
https://www.freemovement.org.uk/immigra ... pectation/

Looking on the bright side at least you found out before losing your visa fee, many don't. :(
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Please don't send me PMs asking for immigration advice on posts that are on the open forum. If I haven't responded there, it's because I don't have the answer. I'm a moderator, not a legal professional.

Hopenotlost
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Re: Unmarried Partner visa - exceptions, anyone?

Post by Hopenotlost » Sun Apr 09, 2017 10:54 am

Casa wrote:Judging by the high number of reports on the forum of seriously flawed advice given, the staff appear to be poorly trained in even the most basic of Immigration Rules.

That is exactly what I am most amazed with. I spent over £80 on all of the calls to them for a better chance of a successful visa application, and got wrong advice in response to what should have been one of the most common questions...
Casa wrote:Looking on the bright side at least you found out before losing your visa fee, many don't. :(

I suppose so, but am still devastated :(

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Re: Unmarried Partner visa - exceptions, anyone?

Post by Casa » Sun Apr 09, 2017 11:01 am

Hopenotlost wrote:
Casa wrote:Judging by the high number of reports on the forum of seriously flawed advice given, the staff appear to be poorly trained in even the most basic of Immigration Rules.
That is exactly what I am most amazed with. I spent over £80 on all of the calls to them for a better chance of a successful visa application, and got wrong advice in response to what should have been one of the most common questions...
Looking on the bright side at least you found out before losing your visa fee, many don't. :(
I suppose so, but am still devastated :(
I would feel the same in your position and can only sympathise.
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Re: Unmarried Partner visa - exceptions, anyone?

Post by vinny » Sun Apr 09, 2017 11:09 am

This is not intended to be legal or professional advice in any jurisdiction. Please click on any given links for further information. Refer to the source of any quotes.
We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children.

Hopenotlost
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Re: Unmarried Partner visa - exceptions, anyone?

Post by Hopenotlost » Sun Apr 09, 2017 11:11 am

Casa wrote:I would feel the same in your position and can only sympathise.

Thank you...
vinny wrote:They may consider compelling and compassionate circumstances.

Thank you for your response. That is what I was looking at hoping it might work...

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Re: Unmarried Partner visa - exceptions, anyone?

Post by Hopenotlost » Thu Apr 13, 2017 7:16 am

Another HUGE concern of mine is that if I risk applying on compassionate grounds and get refused (most likely, let's face it, unless I get a real good immigration lawyer - that and half a million GBP to pay for one :? ), then as far as I understand my chances of then getting a visit visa would be slim to none..? I have read up tons on how one must not so much as attempt to use their valid (!) visit visa following a refusal of a settlement visa (I hear they don't necessarily cancel valid visit visas following such refusals) as they would face about a 99.9% chance of being turned around at the border - beautiful, especially when you've got a toddler with you who's dying to see her dad! So, logically, if they send people in possession of a valid visit visa on the next flight home, then why would they grant a new visit visa following a refusal of a settlement visa?

That and... my visit visa is due to expire in about two months and if I were to apply for one soon, would I not risk a refusal following our 4-5 calls to UKVI? Surely they keep records of those - at least the names and what it was we'd called about? So, logically, they would have every reason to suspect I would attempt to overstay my visit visa..? I will never understand why anyone in their right mind would do it, unless already living on the streets or similar, but isn't that the way they think?

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Casa
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Re: Unmarried Partner visa - exceptions, anyone?

Post by Casa » Thu Apr 13, 2017 8:10 am

Unfortunately a high number of visitors overstay resulting in there being more scrutiny & refusals for visitor visas, especially for elderly dependent relatives.

You're correct in thinking that a refused settlement visa means there is an extremely high chance of subsequent visitor visa applications failing, due to the prior intention to remain in the UK.

However, the Case Worker won't cross-check phone calls to the UKVI 'help line' in reference to a visitor visa application.
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Please don't send me PMs asking for immigration advice on posts that are on the open forum. If I haven't responded there, it's because I don't have the answer. I'm a moderator, not a legal professional.

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Re: Unmarried Partner visa - exceptions, anyone?

Post by Hopenotlost » Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:08 pm

Thank you. So, if my settlement visa (whichever kind) got refused then I would seriously risk being unable to travel to the UK unless/until I (re)applied for a different settlement visa (one I had better chances of getting)? Not a good plan, then!

Seems as though a visit visa is my best bet until we find a better settlement visa option, but any idea what is meant by "Your visa may be cancelled and you may get a long-term ban on visiting if your travel history shows you’re repeatedly living in the UK for extended periods." ? Are "extended periods" periods longer than 6 months? Since "If you can prove you need to visit the UK regularly over a longer period, you can apply for a visa that lasts 2, 5 or 10 years. You can stay for a maximum of 6 months on each visit." Just trying to find a (legal!) way to spend more time with my man until we sort smth out settlement-wise...

Thanks again for your help - much appreciated.

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Casa
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Re: Unmarried Partner visa - exceptions, anyone?

Post by Casa » Thu Apr 13, 2017 6:38 pm

You can't be seen to be spending more time in the UK in a 12 month rolling period than you are spending in your home country.
(Casa, not CR001)
Please don't send me PMs asking for immigration advice on posts that are on the open forum. If I haven't responded there, it's because I don't have the answer. I'm a moderator, not a legal professional.

Hopenotlost
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Re: Unmarried Partner visa - exceptions, anyone?

Post by Hopenotlost » Fri Apr 14, 2017 7:45 am

In other words, I must not spent any more than 6 in any 12 months?

Correct.

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Re: Unmarried Partner visa - exceptions, anyone?

Post by Wanderer » Fri Apr 14, 2017 11:38 am

Hopenotlost wrote:In other words, I must not spent any more than 6 in any 12 months?

Correct.
Even six months in every twelve is frowned upon. Visits are deemed to be 2/3 week trips a couple of times a year, six months in one go is residing, not visiting.
An chéad stad eile Stáisiún Uí Chonghaile....

Hopenotlost
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Re: Unmarried Partner visa - exceptions, anyone?

Post by Hopenotlost » Fri Apr 14, 2017 2:35 pm

Understood, thank you. Another poor option, then :cry:

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Re: Unmarried Partner visa - exceptions, anyone?

Post by Hopenotlost » Fri Apr 14, 2017 9:59 pm

And by the way I have no idea where "Correct" came from! :D

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