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Rejection of Family Permit application

Use this section for any queries concerning the EU Settlement Scheme, for applicants holding pre-settled and settled status.

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Yingette
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Rejection of Family Permit application

Post by Yingette » Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:35 am

My husband and I are in anguish at the outcome of refusal of my application for family permit in the UK. We just got married last November and we are suffering from living apart. I am Chinese, now living in Shanghai, China and my husband is French, who is living in London. We’re here posting our case and longing for help.

Our situation in a nutshell:

- Husband is an EEA national who, we believe, has acquired permanent status in 2008, as he moved to the UK in 2003 and was fully employed from 2003 till 2015. However he never requested his PR card, so we applied as ‘family member of a qualified EEA national’.
- My husband is now in a sabbatical/jobseeking status after a voluntary redundancy agreement with his previous employer which had two sides: 1/ it gave us the time to know each other better, and marry. But 2/ his unemployed status seems to be used by the Home Office as a reason to not believe our relationship will last, and so to refuse my Family Permit applications.
- I am a Chinese national, currently unemployed as I actually left my job in a respectable UK company to try to go to the UK.
- Husband is currently in the UK, I am currently in China.

More details on my applications
In Oct 2016, I visited my now husband on visitor visa
In Nov 2016, we got married in London.
In Dec 2016, we submitted my application of Resident Card.
in Jan 2017, I received COA (certification of application).
In Feb 2017, I returned China and started to apply family permit.
In March 2017, I received the refusal letter on my 1st application of family permit where the reasons stated by entry clearance office are as followed:
- 1)On your application you state that my sponsor is a jobseeker. You have Failed to provide any evidence of this or that your sponsor is in receipt of jobseeker’s allowance or that he is currently applying for jobs and has interviews to attend. This lead me to doubt that his stated employment circumstances are genuine and without further evidence to corroborate this I am not satisfied that he is an EEA national exercising his treaty rights in the UK

- 2)You have failed to provide evidence that your EEA national family member is a qualified person in accordance with regulation 6 of the immigration (EEA) Regulations 2016. I am therefore not satisfied that your EEA national family member is residing in the UK in according with the immigration regulation 2016.

- 3)I note from your immigration history that you have seen been issued two visitor visa to the UK. At that time in both applications, you stated you were married to a Chinese national and you were living together. You divorced him in JULY 2016. You also stated you would be staying at Hotel and you would be travelling to the UK for 14 days for tourism. In this family permit application, you stated you met your sponsor in the JUNE 2015 and stated your relationship at the same time. You then married to your sponsor in the UK on a visit visa, which is not permitted by the immigration rules ( the application must not intend to marry or form a civil partnership , or to give notice of this, in the UK , except where they have a visit visa endorsed for marriage or civil partnership). I am satisfied that you breached the conditions of the visit visa previously issued to you and that the information you provided in January 2016 is not consistent with the information you have provided in this application

- 4)On your application you state that you and sponsor are in contact with each other by living together. You have provided no evidence of any communication or contact between you. I note you have provided a letter from your sponsor’s landlady however this is no evidence of a tenancy agreement for this property or to whom it is rented. I am therefore not satisfied that the documents you have submitted in support of your application demonstrate you are living together as married couple as you state in your application.

Then we provided following documents in our 2nd application of family permit to address these concerns.
- 1) my husband’s job activities such as enrolment of job training, email communications with head hunters, and an interview in Berlin he attended.
- 2)my husband’s employment history including payment slips, tax bills and contracts from 2003—2015. He got redundancy in the middle of 2015 and has been a job seeker since then. My husband first entered the UK on 19 OCT 2003. We believe my husband acquired permanent residence on 20 OCT 2008 as an EEA national who worked and resided permanently in the UK for 5 years, under regulation 15(1) of the Immigration (European Economic Area) Regulations 2006
- 3)our letter to clarify what caused the inconsistence in both applications and our conjugal relationship. Documents including our travel history, our chat history, our photos , letters from home office and letters from his friends we met in London and his family we met in France have been co-attached to state how our relationship is genuine and legally married.
- 4)I lived with my husband from oct 2016 – feb 2017 . so I provided documents such as landlady’s letter , gas bills, electricity bills, water bills , internet bills , photos of traveling together in the UK , photos of visiting his parents in France

We received the 2nd refusal letter – for Family Permit - in the beginning of April where the reasons stated by another entry clearance office are as follow:
- 1)You have still not provided evidence your sponsor is exercising his treaty rights in the UK, although you have stated in your application he is unemployed. You have not provided evidence of any jobseeker’s allowance, while you provided redundancy information with this application. You have not shown details that he is applying for jobs. This leads me to doubt that his stated employment circumstances are genuine and without further evidence to corroborate this I am not satisfied that he is an EEA national exercising this treaty rights in the UK
2)You stated you married your sponsor in NOV 2016. As evidence of contact you have submitted no detail to show you are in contact with your partner. It would be unusual to expect to see more evidence of communications given you state you last saw your sponsor on 24 Feb 2017. I am therefore not satisfied you have addressed the concerns of the entry clearance officer in your last refusal.

What we are doing
What we are told to do (we hired a £300 lawyer for assessment, it was not extremely helpful) and what we have done so far:

1) We have cancelled my resident card application, as we were told it is void since I have left the country before the result and also because of the Family Permit refusals we anticipate they are going to not even look at the RC application, just look at our history, see FP rejection, and reject the RC. Also, we need the papers for next point.
2) Husband working on getting official Permanent resident status, not submitted yet, we wonder if we should do it or not, is there any risks? Can they reject the PR based on my Family Permit rejections?
3) We are working on converting the UK marriage into French laws. This will allow me to get a shenghen visa for free for when I want to visit his family etc, but also gives us an alternative in the future, in case the UK really doesn’t want us, we could potentially go to France. I am also working on transposing the marriage into Chinese law.
4) Husband is now actively looking for a job, he was hoping we could first be together and then we could both look for jobs, however it seems the Home office doesn’t see it that way, he needs a job to show that our relation will last.


Now, why such a long post

1) First we want to share a bit our story, as this forum was very helpful to us to find information.
2) We would like to know what people suggest us to do for next steps. What do you guys think?

tmonaghan
Member
Posts: 237
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2016 2:23 pm
Mood:
United Kingdom

Re: Rejection of Family Permit application

Post by tmonaghan » Wed Apr 19, 2017 2:27 pm

I am surprised that the HO did not mention to you that you were in breach of your Visitor Visa for marrying your now husband. It appears to me that your missing the point. Just give them the evidence requested to prove that your husband is exercising his treaty rights as a job-seeker. Also your husband has already acquired PR from having worked from 2003 till 2015. Once with PR he will not have to exercise treaty rights anymore and will then be able to sponsor you. I think you guys have expedited the whole process so my advise would be to be patient and do things step by step instead of rushing into a family permit from someone who is a NON EEA Citizen from China and who just got married a month before applying for a Family permit. It all looks suspicious.

too old
Member
Posts: 120
Joined: Sun Apr 21, 2013 4:22 am
Pakistan

Re: Rejection of Family Permit application

Post by too old » Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:20 am

TMONAGHAN: the Ho has mentioned about the breaching immigiration laws by gettting married in uk during visiting visa.

YINGETTE:
My humble suggestion
Please keep it simple by applying for your spouse PR due to their qualification from 2003 till 2015. Pick any good 5 years where you got all his or her P60s ,salary slips and residence evidence in UK. it would have no impact due to the rejection of family permits.

once that is done you could join as they wont have to be qualified once issued with PR irrespective of the historical attempts outcome

Thanks and all the best

Yingette
Newly Registered
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:27 am

Re: Rejection of Family Permit application

Post by Yingette » Sat Dec 02, 2017 8:38 am

First of all I would like to thank you for your replies (sorry, forgot to send a thanks...).

So, we have been patient as suggested. My husband is now officially a PR. He has set up a company to gain self employed status, however he is not making any real money yet. We have three main questions:

1) Because he is PR and also self employed we believe we should attempt to re-apply. Would you guys agree?

2) Also, we paid an agent and are not extremely happy with his services thus far. On the Visa application form he put revenue of £2,500/month for my husband, despite my husband is not yet making money. Shouldn't we put 0 for now? Or should we put the expected revenue as done by the agent?

3) Another thing form the agent that surprised us, he asked me (the Chinese spouse) to do a TB test. For my previous visa applications to the UK this was not required. Is it a new requirement (I mean is it now enforced?) or is it the agent making a mistake?

Many thanks in advance

Yingette
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Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:27 am

Re: Rejection of Family Permit application

Post by Yingette » Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:10 pm

I think for #3 we need to do it if staying for over 6 months in the UK, so we will go for it.

NatCam
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Posts: 236
Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2017 5:26 am
Georgia

Re: Rejection of Family Permit application

Post by NatCam » Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:39 am

How easy it looks...
Do not lie to the Home Office!
If your husband is not making any money how is he going to sponsor you?

Yingette
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Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:27 am

Re: Rejection of Family Permit application

Post by Yingette » Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:16 pm

Definitely no lie involved. But it depends one should be answer, with his current contracts and his pipeline, we will really know at the end of the financial year, it is hard to provide an exact estimate until that date.
Also, we both have savings and do not need financial support.

tmonaghan
Member
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Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2016 2:23 pm
Mood:
United Kingdom

Re: Rejection of Family Permit application

Post by tmonaghan » Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:10 pm

You came here for help, but you already know what to do from reading your first post. You married while on the wrong visa, and this will hunt you for years. In addition you married with a EU Citizen and cannot provide evidence of a long term and genuine relationship prior to applying for a Family Permit application. Furthermore, if your husband has had periods of self-sufficiency during the times he was/is looking for a job; you failed to mention that you have/had a CSI for both of you if he was not registered with the Job-centre office.

NatCam
Member
Posts: 236
Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2017 5:26 am
Georgia

Re: Rejection of Family Permit application

Post by NatCam » Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:27 am

@Yingette
Family permit is an entry clearance valid for six months only, therefore you don`t need a TB test.

Yingette
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Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:27 am

Re: Rejection of Family Permit application

Post by Yingette » Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:51 pm

NatCam wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:27 am
@Yingette
Family permit is an entry clearance valid for six months only, therefore you don`t need a TB test.
Makes sense, thank you.

Yingette
Newly Registered
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:27 am

Re: Rejection of Family Permit application

Post by Yingette » Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:55 pm

tmonaghan wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:10 pm
You came here for help, but you already know what to do from reading your first post. You married while on the wrong visa, and this will hunt you for years. In addition you married with a EU Citizen and cannot provide evidence of a long term and genuine relationship prior to applying for a Family Permit application. Furthermore, if your husband has had periods of self-sufficiency during the times he was/is looking for a job; you failed to mention that you have/had a CSI for both of you if he was not registered with the Job-centre office.
Thanks for your comments.
My husband has PR status now, CSI/employment status/others, are no longer a concern as the PR status clarifies everything.
This is not really related to the new new questions I asked, sorry if I haven't been clear enough.

Yingette
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Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:27 am

Re: Rejection of Family Permit application

Post by Yingette » Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:15 am

I just would like to update this thread with good news. My visa was approved.

I would like to add that my husband and I, despite being out of work, are comfortable financially. I am not sure one would assume that I would need any financial support from my husband. I do feel there is a little bias here.

Hoping that it would help the others:
My husband applied for PR and I applied for the Family Permit once he received his card, that's the main difference compared to my previous applications. However I guess that the fact we were able to show that we met each other and communicated, during this long year of struggle living apart, has also proven to the officer that we were a stable couple, but that I can't obviously say for sure.

Thanks for all the advices.
Next step is resident card application I guess... It is not over.

trantu
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Vietnam

Re: Rejection of Family Permit application

Post by trantu » Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:31 am

Hi Yingette,
Can you help me with some information?
Did you apply your husband PR card and also with document to prove him as a "qualified person"?
Because in my case, I've pplied my husband PR card which granted to him on June 2017 and his P60 of the last 5 years (2012 to 2017) and his Term and condition of contract and Job offer from employer (because he got a new job on Jan 2018) but that letter has electronic signature. I thought that his PR card is met the requirement for my case. But i still got the refusal state that: my husband failed to prove him as a qualified person". I dont know what more evidences i should apply now? Pls help.

ewasx
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Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2018 2:19 am
France

Re: Rejection of Family Permit application

Post by ewasx » Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:04 pm

Hi, this is the husband.

I am sorry to hear that the HO office rejected your applictaion, they can really be a pain... They just try to find any excuse they can to reject any application. I've got an example where a british person maried to a Vietnamese person was rejected multiple times, he is an ex police officer - so certainly deemed to be a person of good character - etc etc, and their application kept being rejected so they went through the appeal process. The judge basically shouted at the Home Office representative telling them that they are fools who break the law and reject people for no valid reasons (well, in their case of course). So my advice here is to stay strong and carry on trying. I unfortunately know too much how difficult that is. But I divert...

OK, back to the topic, so Yingette's application was:
A cover letter explaining our relationship and trying to address all the reasons stated in the two previous rejections.
Documents were:

Husband's status section:
1. my bank statements for the past 6 months
2. Yingette’s bank statements
3. My PR card as well as the PR letter - the one that states when I have been granted PR, in my case from 2008 (granted in 2017 but because I provided proof of residence from 2003 they made me PR from 2008).

Proof of relationship:
- letters from family and friends (uk and non uk nationals and residents).
- all the trips we made together: flight details, hotels bookings, pictures, etc.
- chat history: skype, whatsapp and wechat logs: daily sample for the past month and weekly sample for the past two years.

She did not submit any P60 as we believed it was not required as she was not applying as married to a 'qualified person' but instead she applied as a spouse to a EU national with PR status. Perhaps that's the reason of your rejection, as they are quite pedantic. You should apply as a spouse of a PR person too, not as a spouse of a 'qualified person'.
I do not know if the list of documents we submitted was too much so please don't consider it as the thing to do but rather as an example of succesful application, your case is probably different. My understanding though is that as the spouse of an EU national with PR status exercising his treaty rights you have the right to live and work in the UK and you should base your next application on that and only on that.

trantu
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Vietnam

Re: Rejection of Family Permit application

Post by trantu » Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:39 pm

Thank you very much for your information. I will try to reapply again and add my husband bank statement and his employment letter this time. Thank you again!!!

YVIET
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Vietnam

Re: Rejection of Family Permit application

Post by YVIET » Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:23 am

Hi TranTu,

Are you applying your EEA FP from VN? Thanks.

ewasx
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France

Re: Rejection of Family Permit application

Post by ewasx » Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:32 am

trantu wrote:
Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:39 pm
Thank you very much for your information. I will try to reapply again and add my husband bank statement and his employment letter this time. Thank you again!!!
I am not a lawyer so that's difficult for me to pretend to know things. However, I'd like to stress that if you apply for fmily FP based on your husband being a PR then you have the right to live in the UK based on EU treaty rights. Your application should reflect that. I believe there is no harm in showing that you guys can sustain to live in the UK (you won't be a burden to the state) however, the law doesn't say that you should... That's where a lawyer, or an immigration advisor, could be helpful, that person could help finding the right words, but that's indeed not required.
I suggest you spend some time reading various official sources such as https://www.gov.uk/guidance/status-of-e ... ed-to-know and this http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex ... 123:en:PDF
Not that we are lawyers, and we shouldn't pretend to be, but that should help you find the right words for your application.

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