route for children of married EEA nationals in 2004 & 2008

[recort]

HI, I wonder if someone can help me;
we are a married couple(both EEA) with 2 children born in UK, one in 2004 and one in 2008 - we all have PR on paper since 2017 but have actually been exercising treaty rights (i.e. living & working) since 1997 and can provide proof, payslips etc.

I think I understand the route for us adults, but the home office guidance with regards to the children confuses me, and I struggle to understand if exercising treaty rights would have counted as 'settled' for the child in 2004 etc.

can anyone explain to me, which application form I must use for i) my child, born in 2004 and ii) my child born in 2008, to register / naturalise or whatever as British citizens with passport, and if need to prove having been 'settled'?

[secret.simon]

Given that you were in the UK before 2004, I take it that you are not A8 or A2 nationals. Is that correct?

Are either of you Irish citizens?

Check your old passports to see if either of you were stamped with an ILR stamp before 2nd October 2000. If either of you were, both your children born in the UK were automatically British. Apply directly for a British passport.

Assuming that neither of you were issued with ILR before 2000, the child born in the UK in 2004 can be registered as a British citizen on Form MN1, if you can prove that either one parent exercised treaty rights for five continuous years at any point of time before his/her birth. Alternatively, if the child lived the first ten years of his/her life in the UK, with less than 90 days absence from the UK per year, s/he can also register as a British citizen under Form T. To the best of my knowledge, the fees for both applications are the same (£936).

The child born in the UK in 2008 is automatically British if you can prove that either one parent exercised treaty rights for five continuous years at any point of time before his/her birth. Apply directly for a British passport.

See Page 20 onwards of the EEA Citizens - Free movement guidance.

[recort]

Thank you very much - we are both german and I'll have a look at the link you provided.

Providing this can somehow be resolved, the next question is going to be on Germany's stand on dual citizenship - since 2006 they allow it as long as the other state is in the EU - I wonder what's going to happen...

[MrSlyFox]

One of the many questions Brexit poses, Of course ideally those who acquired British Citizenship while the UK was still in the EU can keep both, but you'll have to wait and see

[recort]

ok, i have read it now and thank you again for your advice, but can you tell me if I am missing a trick here:
you are saying:
- Child born 2004:
using form T on the grounds of 10 years in the UK would be simpler as it doesn't mean to producing 19 year old documents to prove at least one parents status(?)
- child born 2008:
apply directly for a passport seems great, but I understand that this now means producing 15 year old documents?

Correct me if I am wrong, but, as we (all 4) have just gone through a mountain of paper for the past 6 years and have aquired PR and are as of 1st July 2017 allowed to apply for citizenship - is there not a form that uses this now established PR status for the children, which we could use for all of us?

[thsths]

I am not 100% sure about the child born in 2004, because the law changed at some point. I think you can ask for registration because on the settled status of the parents, which is easier (and slightly cheaper) than naturalisation.

For the child in 2008, it would have acquired BC at birth, because you were settled here at this point, but you do need to demonstrate that one parent was legally in the UK for 5 years (and working or exercising treaty rights) by that point. So you can apply for a passport, but expect some paperwork. (The same may apply to the first child, but as I said the law changed.)

[JAJ]

Did your letter from the Home Office state when you acquired Permanent Residence?

In any case, if you can show you automatically acquired Permanent Residence under the EEA rules as in place from 30.04.2006, then your child born in 2008 is British [but it needs to be evidenced]. You may want to document the child's British citizenship independently using form NS, and apply for a British passport later. There is a fee but gives a stand-alone document that evidences British citizenship that (unlike a passport) does not have an expiry date.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... us-form-ns

Whether you use form NS or not- keep a permanent record of all documentation proving the child's British citizenship (employment records etc.) and do not throw out any expired British passports.

Unless there are some unusual circumstances involving an unconditional right to reside under the EU Treaties, your 2004-born child is not British. Simplest way to get British citizenship for the child is to register under section 1(3) of the British Nationality Act (U.K. born child with a settled parent). Use form MN1:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... n-form-mn1

Dual citizenship/Germany: As you note, Germany allows dual citizenship for EU states/Switzerland. Although you may wish to seek advice further from the German authorities, I expect it is highly unlikely that those who acquire dual German/British citizenship while the U.K. remains in the EU will have any problems keeping German citizenship after the U.K. leaves the EU. In any case- you should not let that remote contingency affect your decision now. Also, it should not affect your U.K. born child from 2008- Germany in general allows dual citizenship with any other country where the child acquires another citizenship at the time of birth and has a German parent.

[alterhase58]

You may have read the information from the German Embassy already but here is the link just in case: http://www.uk.diplo.de/Vertretung/unite ... nship.html. As you will see even in the worst case you may still apply for permission to hold dual citizenship (application to the Bundesverwaltungsamt)

Personally, this was also a concern for me, however I still went for BC as I do not believe the German government would deprive thousands of German citizens of their nationality, and generally rights acquired before laws change are not withdrawn retrospectively.

[recort]

Hi, thank you alterhase 58
..since yesterday, I have got it in writing from the 'Bundesverwaltungsamt' - the nationality law can not be changes retrospect, so if you become BC before the actual exit date, the permission is granted for ever - the problem with the children and which form to use, however, still puzzles me as the law seems deliverately confusing - if there is still someone out there who can tell me if there is a way for my German children (they have PR cards as born and bred here for 9 & 12 years) to become BC without wading through the now 15 year old (lazy parents) paperwork again, please let me know.

[alterhase58]

I guess what complicates matters is that children were born in the UK. If they had come over with you at the time it probably would have been easier. Maybe someone here could comment on the potential for the PR route you are suggesting.

[secret.simon]

if there is still someone out there who can tell me if there is a way for my German children (they have PR cards as born and bred here for 9 & 12 years) to become BC without wading through the now 15 year old (lazy parents) paperwork again, please let me know.

For the child born 2004, it is straightforward as you have to register him/her anyway. Apply on Form MN1 with the same proof that you submitted for your (either one parent) PR + his UK birth certificate.

For the child born 2008, it may be slightly more complicated. From your description, s/he is already a British citizen and by definition, a British citizen cannot be registered as a British citizen. But as you have no proof of his/her British citizenship, do likewise as with his sibling (apply on Form MN1 with the same proof that you submitted for your (either one parent) PR + his UK birth certificate).

So, it would be two MN1 forms and about £2000 in fees.

[JAJ]

Hi, thank you alterhase 58
..since yesterday, I have got it in writing from the 'Bundesverwaltungsamt' - the nationality law can not be changes retrospect, so if you become BC before the actual exit date, the permission is granted for ever - the problem with the children and which form to use, however, still puzzles me as the law seems deliverately confusing - if there is still someone out there who can tell me if there is a way for my German children (they have PR cards as born and bred here for 9 & 12 years) to become BC without wading through the now 15 year old (lazy parents) paperwork again, please let me know.

It's already been pointed out to you that registration as a British citizen under section 1(3) of the Act- form MN1- does not require any paperwork from many years ago. In fact the children's PR status is irrelevant for this kind of registration. All that is needed- in principle- is their U.K. birth certificate (showing that they are British born and under 18) + one parent's PR Card.

As someone else has noted, in theory the Home Office should question whether your 12 year old is British already (a person already a British citizen is not supposed to be registered) but in practice, if you pay the MN1 registration fee and make an application, it is highly likely to be granted without any question. So it's your choice- pay the fee and register the child as a British citizen, or pay a lower fee + more paperwork to document that the child was British at birth.

For the child born 2004, it is straightforward as you have to register him/her anyway. Apply on Form MN1 with the same proof that you submitted for your (either one parent) PR + his UK birth certificate.

No need to re-submit documentation of how the parent obtained PR. All the Home Office need is evidence that the parent has PR (PR Card). Although if the entire family is planning to apply for naturalisation it is probably simplest for all applications to be made together.