- FAQ
- Login
- Register
- Call Workpermit.com for a paid service +44 (0)344-991-9222
ESC
Welcome to immigrationboards.com!
Moderators: Casa, John, ChetanOjha, archigabe, CR001, push, JAJ, ca.funke, Amber, zimba, vinny, Obie, EUsmileWEallsmile, batleykhan, meself2, geriatrix
Yes to all of your questions. You can claim for either or a mix of them.alijafri wrote:Hi All.
Firstly, I am new to this forum hence might not be fully aware of rules so pardon me for that in advance.
My Tier 1 Entrepreneur First Extension (£200k route) is due this week. I own 2 businesses - One is consulting (which i showed at the time of initial application).There isnt much banking on it anymore as I have been involved in my other business lately. Other one is Trading business which is fully active and doing okay.
I have two questions:
1. Since i established first business within 3 month of entering (May14) - Can I claim establishing points for this business ? And rest of the points for other business.
2. My 200k investment is in the other business. I would like to claim investment, job creation points on second business. - Is that possible.
Crux - Can I claim points (of claim attributes) - from different companies/businesses ? i.e investment and job creation on one company and business establishment on the other ?
Appreciate your help in advance.
1. Audited accounts are a requirement for investment evidence, so you only need to provide it for the company that you are using for that.alijafri wrote:Hi Marcnath
Much appreciate your help. You are a star.
Also,
1. do I need to provide audited accounts for both of them ?
2. Whats the best way to tell them which business I am using to claim those points ? A covering letter or they can establish themselves using documents I provide ?
Noalijafri wrote:HI ..Thanks for help.
ALso need help from you, Zimba, CR00 and other moderators on below query
Pardon me if I have missed response on these question on previous threads.
I have few questions related to Directors loan. I came to UK in 2014 and made first investment in 2015 October and completed investment in March 2017.
1. Does the Director loan agreement have to be on legal paper ?
Any agreement needs two parties - you (Director) as the lender and your company as the borrower.alijafri wrote:2. DOes it have to be attested from solicitor or can simply be on one plain paper with only one sign of myself. ?
It does not matter. But it is logical that the agreement will be dated at least on the date of your first transfer.alijafri wrote:3. What date do i need to have on the agreement ?
The only requirement is that the Director Loan is for a minimum of 200,000 and your accounts should show a minimum of 200,000. Again,for immigration rules purposes, it does not need to match. But, I am sure your accountant will insist that it does if he is a decent accountant.alijafri wrote:4. The director loan amount reflects against my name in accounts so thats not a problem. However please guide me what amount do I have to write on agreement ? Does it have to match the amount on accounts ?
Again, this would have nothing to do with your application. HO cares only about two things.alijafri wrote:5. If that date on agreement has to be when I made the first transfer, how is it possible to write before hand that I am loaning out 229,000 amount of money and that matches the accounts as well......you know what i mean
This forum has a good search option - search for director loan agreement template. I am going to have to do the samealijafri wrote:Hi Marcnath.
Cant thank you enough for advice. A few more leading questions.
1. Can you point me in right direction for any previous leads of a decent Directors Loan agreement format?
Yesalijafri wrote:2. I have almost 20 transactions of director loans transfer of avg £10k each (personal to business). They cant fit on page 42 alone. I hope we are allowed to attach a separate sheet with table 3b1 ?
Yesalijafri wrote:3. Is it a good idea to attach a detailed covering letter for my application ? I am doing it without solicitor so think it might bring all documents into perspective.
Which question are you talking about ?alijafri wrote:4. As for job creation - I have all documents. However two employees started on 01/01/16 but we started submitting FPS/RTI only from April 16. So is what do I write as job creation date. ? 12 months from April onwards ?
Job creation date is any date before the start date of the 1st employee who has filled the job.alijafri wrote:5. Both of them are still on job. So in application form page 46, in date post created tab, do I write 01/01 or 01/04 (when we started sending FPS) ?
Your start date entered in the table has to be the same as in the FPS.alijafri wrote:6. On same page 46, what are the start and end dates tabs in table ? (both are still in job) so are these start and end dates of claim period ?
The form is clear - it has to be filled "(if this differs from start date in job)".alijafri wrote:7. What goes in column 2 (start date with your business) of same page 46. Is it start date of job or claim preiod start date ?
alijafri wrote:Might be a very basic questions - but dont want to mess it up when I have a chance to make it correct with your advice.
Thanks in advance
The genuine entrepreneur test is very subjective. I think it wasn't really introduced to evaluate your entrepreneurship capability (doubt if CW has the competence for it) but is there really to weed out people who were misusing this route by just showing money, hiring people, etc.alijafri wrote:Thanks again for your quick responses on matter.
Following up on this, I have few more questions:
1. I have a business premises that I have on sublet and i run a motor showroom on it. I only have a 3 page management/sublet contract on it but do have all business rates, utilities on my name. Just to show I am a genuine entrepreneur (and yet not to make it too complicated) , is it okay to submit agreement and business rates bill and utilities bill or only business rates bill and utilities can suffice ?
No, as long as you have the funds for yourself and your dependants in the one accountalijafri wrote:2. For maintenance, do I have to provide separate bank statements for my depndents as well ?
Just the ones that show the investment.alijafri wrote:3. Should I provide all 2-3 years business bank statements ? Or only month of investment (with date of investment) bank statement is okay ?
Noalijafri wrote:4. I did investment from personal bank to business in quite a few transactions over 2 years (as earlier mentioned) is that something to be concerned about ?
Is this the reference on you Business Bank statements ?The requirement is that your name must be against each of the transaction in the Business bank statements. It looks like your name is not there - that is an issue since HO wants to confirm that the money was from you (or on your behalf).alijafri wrote:5. For all investment transactions, I had a reference on bank saying 'investment - business name' . Didnt say director loan. Hope that is okay as well ?
Fully support your approachalijafri wrote:6. Someone recommended me providing a solicitor style cover letter with clauses on it and my points scoring against them (like a 6 pager). I dont think case officers have that much time on hand - would like to keep it simple as I know I am a genuine entrepreneur - in which case should a simple 2 pager cover letter (with detail of docs provided against each attribute) suffice ?
No.alijafri wrote:7. Do I have to provide my VAT returns as well while I have provided all unaudited accounts already ?
Unlilkely since you have already rectified it. The condition is that you should have done things lawfully and the corrections should help with that.alijafri wrote:8. I have tried to pay my PAYE liability on time however missed a few in mid. But then made a plan with hmrc to cover it. Is that a red flag ?
Thanking you in advance.
That is perfect. Don't think there is a need for personal bank statementsalijafri wrote:Hi Marcanath
Thank you....you were super fast there and quite clear.
Very very relieved with all these points. thats what i thought, key is in clarity and simplicity.
1. As for business reference, the transactions on my business bank statements DO clearly mention my name S A A Jafri (in short obviously) in the title of transaction from my personal acc with sub reference saying 'investment - business name" - but it does not say director loan in ref.
Hope that is okay? If so, should i still submit my tons of personal banking statements as well ?
Only the amount in the DL will be counted for investment. I would go for the higher number (which is what your accountant should recommend as the money has to be accounted somehow)alijafri wrote:2. Coming back to director loan agreement, i have yet invested 229,650 from my personal to business account. This exact amount shows against my name in unaudited 2 years accounts. Should I draft a director loan agreement of 220,000 or 230,000 ? means more than transfered or less. which is proper approach ?
Noalijafri wrote:3. Do I have to provide my Personal tax returns as well ?
Thanks
Noalijafri wrote:Marcnath
4. In addition to above, do I need to tell why I have two businesses and why I am claiming points in two business ? Do I need to put explanation in cover letter for the above as to why I didnt invest in business 1 which I created in year 1 and didnt actively run later - and later started another business where investment was done ?
Yes, you are complicating/thinking too muchalijafri wrote:Hi Marcnath
Thanks again. Step by step I am getting to final shape of my application.
For transfer, I used 1 personal bank HSBC - only myself holderr) for £30k and another £200k (my Natwest).
One shows name S A Jafri on trnsactions. Other shows my full initial name S A A Jafri.
Is that okay or I am complicating/thinking too much ?
That seems like more than healthy proof. Again, I can't speak on behalf of the CWs, but I think that should be more than enough. Add pictures if you want, but not really necessary.alijafri wrote:Hi Marcnath
Thats true.
Coming to final section, which is helping my case to prove I am a genuine entrepreneur, I am planning to send few sales invoices, few purchases invoices (local & import as I buy cars from UK & Japan both) (5 each covering a year), business rates bill, utility bill, Insurance copy (business, employer liability), my membership with RMI (Retail Motor Industry), website and autotrader/ebay/motors screen shots.
Is that a healthy proof. ?
I would include only the pages with the investments.alijafri wrote:Hi Marcnath
I dont know if my next questions step on the fine line that exists between being careful & Paranoid
1. My banking is quite alot because of my business. WHen i submit my bank statements for proof of incoming investment, should I only send the exact page of bank statement that shows my transaction from that month - or the full month bank statement. Dont mind sending entire thing - just that it will literally be 100's of pages of bank statement only.
Not needed - if you are having a section for that attribute, then it becomes clear it is for all the three of you.alijafri wrote:2. Should I write a support declaration for my dependents that I am providing maintenance etc and attach with application ?
Since this is an extension, you don't need to provide the marriage cert again. Birth cert for your daughter - yes.alijafri wrote:3. What support documents do dependents need ? (Marriage certificate for Wife, and Birth certificate for Daughter - only 2 months old) thats what I have.
thanking in advance
That should not be a problem. The requirement is that "All statements must be on the bank’s stationery, unless you are submitting electronic statements." And if they sent it to you, I am pretty sure it meets that criteria.alijafri wrote:Hi Marcnath
Thank you for your responses. You continue to be super helpful and a savior.
Some questions have risen following my discussion with a solicitor (I am applying without a solicitor - went there to have a second opinion on my application) So please dont take me wrong, I am not trying to question anyones authority - just trying to have a first hand opinion of expert moderators here.
1. I have personal bank statements directly (to show maintenance) directly from HSBC which I demanded over the phone. They sent me statements - while they are from bank, it says 'Duplicate' on top. Is that not acceptable to Home Office ?
The cut off date is based on the date of application, not the visa grant date - so yes, you qualify for the transitional rules.alijafri wrote:2. I got my visa stamped before April 1 2014 (dated 01/03/14) but came to UK in May 2014. Will the pre April rules for Job creation be applicable on me or post April ?
I can't see why it would raise any suspicion. You are not getting any advantage for your application from paying a higher salary.alijafri wrote:3. Both employees worked continuous 12 months. However one employee had a pay rise mid year (same job though - increased responsibilities) & which obviously shows on accountant letter and on the employment sheet of application form as well. I however have been suggested by the Solicitor to explain sudden payrise mid year as this might raise suspicion. Is it the case ?
Even if you had put in all your investment on the last day before you apply, as long as you provide the documentation, the CW has to award you points. Otherwise you can challenge it in the Administrative review.alijafri wrote:4. As I mentioned earlier, I setup one business as soon as I came to the UK in May 2014 (Company A). This is a consulting business which is still active but I realised later I cant prove my investment in this as it was more of services related work. I later opened a motor business in May 2015 (company B) and the first investment came in this company in Oct 2015 all the way to last bit of £200k investment in March 2017. There was a delay in investment obviously. Again - according to solicitor I need to explain this delay in investment, probably in my cover letter. Whats the more popular opinion and whats your suggestion on the matter ?
If you are not claiming for investments in company A (which you are not), there is no need for accounts of that company.alijafri wrote:5. Subsequent to above, according to clause 141 of policy guidance, "We recognise that, as an entrepreneur, you may have moved on to other activities and no longer be involved in the business in which you initially invested, but we still require this evidence to show that the money was invested"
In light of this, Solicitor said, I still have to submit accounts of my company A even if no investment was done in it. Whats the more popular opinion and whats your suggestion on the matter ?
This is something I have seen other members in this forum also say. Generally, the guidelines are very detailed. So, I believe that if it is not specified there, it is not needed. Again, the CW can come back to you and ask for those documents, but I am of the opinion they cannot deny you points for not submitting those.alijafri wrote:6. He also mentioned that I still have to submit my personal bank statements as proof of transfer is not only business bank but also personal bank that shows source. Confused on this one really as policy says Business bank only.
Most people seem to have been doing DL here. I personally had a combination - one business as shares, the other was DL. It just doesn't matter. The documentation is lesser when investing as shares (no bank statements and loan agreement needed ) but it is your choice.alijafri wrote:7. He suggested investment by Share Capital is more of a reliable way of investment than Director Loan. Whats your opinion on it ?
Thanking you again for your responses.
Honestly, I don't understand the language of the last part of that clause so I am not going to be able to comment.alijafri wrote:Hi Marcnath
I have pretty much exhausted my questions now, well I think so apart from a few
1. I found one DL agreement on forum and it has one term on it as
"This agreement commences from the start of Accounting Period of the Company. The Lender & Company may terminate the loan agreement at any time with mutual consent of both the parties except for payment due to third party/parties creditors of Company prior to date of such terminations. "
Is this clause okay ? As in the Start of agreement and the termination ?
I think UKVI looks at this as two separate things:alijafri wrote:2. Again, I came from outside the UK on Tier 1 Ent Visa and invested my personal money in business. How will they (UKVI) know its my personal money that I invested if I dont send my personal bank statements. ?
Obviously my business bank statements are there, DL agreement is there, unaudited accounts show my name against the DL. IS that really it ?