AR refusal NEED HELP

[kusuz]

Hi,

I have received Enterprenuer visa extension refusal couple of days ago.

Refusal reasons are as under.
1) B- When evidencing the investment:
The audited or unaudited account must show the investment in money made directly by the applicant in his own name or oh his behalf ( and showing his name)

Situation: my accountant didn't mentioned my name in Annual report 2013-2014 when i did investment.

Solution what we are planning: getting an account's certificate about investment made as we cant change now annual reports. We already submitted accountant's certificate in original file as well.

Is there any other way now can we prove that?

2) A birth certificate, which demonstrate the employee was born in UK before Jan 1983
If the employee was born in UK after Jan 1983, a birth certificate together with documentation such as a passport or naturalization certificate which confirms one of their parents had settled status in UK when employee was born and additionally if the parent is a father to the employee then a marriage certificate to the mother.

Situation: I provided only birth certificate for one my employee as he didn't had passport.

Solution that we are planning: getting his mother's passport copy if possible. As his passport application can take up to 6 weeks because of his first passport.

Is there any other way we can prove that?

Many thanks

[Momi]

Both reasons are from policy guidance.
try to get a copy of his mother/father old passport.

[kusuz]

Hi Thank you for your suggestion but just came to know his mother as well doesn't have passport so now asking for her birth certificate.

do you think would it still be valid?

[msaleemu]

Sorry to hear that

What date did you apply?

I applied for Extension on 9th March 2017 and sent only passport copies of all employees without birth certificate copies.I think at the time , requirement was only passport copies .


Can any one please suggest especially Zimba88 or any other senior members that its ok for my that i sent only passport copies of all employee without birth certificate or i have to have birth certificate in order to claim points?


I think UKVI updated policy guidance April 2017 and added birth certificate for all employee with passport copies

[marcnath]

Sorry to hear that

What date did you apply?

I applied for Extension on 9th March 2017 and sent only passport copies of all employees without birth certificate copies.I think at the time , requirement was only passport copies .


Can any one please suggest especially Zimba88 or any other senior members that its ok for my that i sent only passport copies of all employee without birth certificate or i have to have birth certificate in order to claim points?


I think UKVI updated policy guidance April 2017 and added birth certificate for all employee with passport copies

You have not read the guidelines properly. It is sufficient to provide a passport copy. Birth certificate with the additional documents is ONLY NEEDED if the employee did not have a passport (which is the OPs case here)
PS: Please don't tag on to other's post - especially when it is just confusing the issue. You can ask your question on your own post.

[marcnath]

Hi Thank you for your suggestion but just came to know his mother as well doesn't have passport so now asking for her birth certificate.

do you think would it still be valid?

That is surprising that the mother does not have a passport. Note that it does not have to be a current passport - an expired one is good enough.
But, if the mother does not even have that, then you have to depend on the birth certificate (assuming she was UK born). Can't be sure, but I would expect UKVI to accept it - make sure you have a cover letter explaining the situation.

[marcnath]

Hi,

I have received Enterprenuer visa extension refusal couple of days ago.

Refusal reasons are as under.
1) B- When evidencing the investment:
The audited or unaudited account must show the investment in money made directly by the applicant in his own name or oh his behalf ( and showing his name)

Situation: my accountant didn't mentioned my name in Annual report 2013-2014 when i did investment.

Solution what we are planning: getting an account's certificate about investment made as we cant change now annual reports. We already submitted accountant's certificate in original file as well.

Is there any other way now can we prove that?

An accountant's certificate will not be accepted !

You don't have a choice here but for the accountant to prepare a new copy of accounts with the investment shown with your name against it.

There is no reason you can't change the annual report.

But anyway, you don't need to. There is no requirement that you need to show the accounts for the year you did the investment. Your latest accounts will still show your investment in the accounts and that will meet the requirement.

You only need the bank statements from 2013-2014 to show the transfer of funds.

[sm12]

Very sorry to hear about this. You can get management accounts prepared for the last few months and submit those to show your investment.

As for the passport, could his mother provide an old passport? If she had one previously but it is not readily available, she can go for the premium service application option.
Also, is there no option of submitting the marriage certificate and father's current or expired passport?

[kusuz]

Hi Thank you for your suggestion but just came to know his mother as well doesn't have passport so now asking for her birth certificate.

do you think would it still be valid?

That is surprising that the mother does not have a passport. Note that it does not have to be a current passport - an expired one is good enough.
But, if the mother does not even have that, then you have to depend on the birth certificate (assuming she was UK born). Can't be sure, but I would expect UKVI to accept it - make sure you have a cover letter explaining the situation.

Thank you for your response.

No unfortunately we asked about old passport she doesn't have it.
Yes she is British and has British birth certificate.
Would they consider as i think if mum is British by born then her son is automatic consider as British.

[schahzeb]

2) A birth certificate, which demonstrate the employee was born in UK before Jan 1983
If the employee was born in UK after Jan 1983, a birth certificate together with documentation such as a passport or naturalization certificate which confirms one of their parents had settled status in UK when employee was born and additionally if the parent is a father to the employee then a marriage certificate to the mother.

when did you apply for extension as i think the guidelines were updated on this in April only.

[kusuz]

Hi,

I have received Enterprenuer visa extension refusal couple of days ago.

Refusal reasons are as under.
1) B- When evidencing the investment:
The audited or unaudited account must show the investment in money made directly by the applicant in his own name or oh his behalf ( and showing his name)

Situation: my accountant didn't mentioned my name in Annual report 2013-2014 when i did investment.

Solution what we are planning: getting an account's certificate about investment made as we cant change now annual reports. We already submitted accountant's certificate in original file as well.

Is there any other way now can we prove that?

An accountant's certificate will not be accepted !

You don't have a choice here but for the accountant to prepare a new copy of accounts with the investment shown with your name against it.

There is no reason you can't change the annual report.

But anyway, you don't need to. There is no requirement that you need to show the accounts for the year you did the investment. Your latest accounts will still show your investment in the accounts and that will meet the requirement.

You only need the bank statements from 2013-2014 to show the transfer of funds.

Thank you for your response.

I am worried about making and submitting accounts in 4 days, as our 14 days of deadline of submitting for administrative review.
as well the year 2013-2014 when i invested money we had major flood in our area which had damaged our property in major condition. We had big loss in that year and year after which had wiped our whole capital and my investment off. So i am worried and confused how can i show my investments in 2016 annual reports?

[kusuz]

2) A birth certificate, which demonstrate the employee was born in UK before Jan 1983
If the employee was born in UK after Jan 1983, a birth certificate together with documentation such as a passport or naturalization certificate which confirms one of their parents had settled status in UK when employee was born and additionally if the parent is a father to the employee then a marriage certificate to the mother.

when did you apply for extension as i think the guidelines were updated on this in April only.

Thank you for your response

I applied on 30 jan 2017

[marcnath]

Thank you for your response.

I am worried about making and submitting accounts in 4 days, as our 14 days of deadline of submitting for administrative review.
as well the year 2013-2014 when i invested money we had major flood in our area which had damaged our property in major condition. We had big loss in that year and year after which had wiped our whole capital and my investment off. So i am worried and confused how can i show my investments in 2016 annual reports?

How did you make the investment - shares or DL ?
Losses should not affect the reference to your investment in the accounts. If you made your investment in 2013/14 it cannot disappear from your accounts - it will be in every year accounts unless you have withdrawn the money from the company (in which case you have violated your visa terms)

[marcnath]

Thank you for your response.

No unfortunately we asked about old passport she doesn't have it.
Yes she is British and has British birth certificate.
Would they consider as i think if mum is British by born then her son is automatic consider as British.

I don't see why not, especially as the Mother would clearly be born pre-1983. Just put forward your argument that they should accept the mother's birth cert as it is pre-1983

2) A birth certificate, which demonstrate the employee was born in UK before Jan 1983
If the employee was born in UK after Jan 1983, a birth certificate together with documentation such as a passport or naturalization certificate which confirms one of their parents had settled status in UK when employee was born and additionally if the parent is a father to the employee then a marriage certificate to the mother.

when did you apply for extension as i think the guidelines were updated on this in April only.

Yes, the guidelines were updated in April clarifying the documents required. But the rule requiring that was in place earlier. So, unfortunately, that will not help the argument.

For reference, the earlier guideline says (the relevant part underlined):
177. Documents kept by an employer as evidence that an employee is a settled worker will often be the passport pages from a UK passport that contain the employee’s personal details, and the page containing the UK Government stamp or endorsement, if appropriate. It may also be the
Tier 1(Entrepreneur) Policy Guidance version 11/2016 - Page 55
worker’s full birth certificate, showing the name of at least one parent. If it is not possible to establish the parent’s settled status from the birth certificate alone, you will also need to provide additional documentation, such as pages from your parents passport to demonstrate this.

[marcnath]

2) A birth certificate, which demonstrate the employee was born in UK before Jan 1983
If the employee was born in UK after Jan 1983, a birth certificate together with documentation such as a passport or naturalization certificate which confirms one of their parents had settled status in UK when employee was born and additionally if the parent is a father to the employee then a marriage certificate to the mother.

when did you apply for extension as i think the guidelines were updated on this in April only.

Yes, the guidelines were updated in April clarifying the documents required. But the rule requiring that was in place earlier. So, unfortunately, that will not help the argument.

For reference, the earlier guideline says (the relevant part underlined):
177. Documents kept by an employer as evidence that an employee is a settled worker will often be the passport pages from a UK passport that contain the employee’s personal details, and the page containing the UK Government stamp or endorsement, if appropriate. It may also be the
Tier 1(Entrepreneur) Policy Guidance version 11/2016 - Page 55
worker’s full birth certificate, showing the name of at least one parent. If it is not possible to establish the parent’s settled status from the birth certificate alone, you will also need to provide additional documentation, such as pages from your parents passport to demonstrate this.

[kusuz]

Thank you for your response.

I am worried about making and submitting accounts in 4 days, as our 14 days of deadline of submitting for administrative review.
as well the year 2013-2014 when i invested money we had major flood in our area which had damaged our property in major condition. We had big loss in that year and year after which had wiped our whole capital and my investment off. So i am worried and confused how can i show my investments in 2016 annual reports?

How did you make the investment - shares or DL ?
Losses should not affect the reference to your investment in the accounts. If you made your investment in 2013/14 it cannot disappear from your accounts - it will be in every year accounts unless you have withdrawn the money from the company (in which case you have violated your visa terms)

I made investment as a DL.
no we have not withdrawn money from the company. I taken 2 times salary of £5000 in 3 years.

[marcnath]

I made investment as a DL.
no we have not withdrawn money from the company. I taken 2 times salary of £5000 in 3 years.

OK. Since your salary cannot be counted against the investment, your latest accounts should still be showing a DL liability of 50K/200K + 10K . In the notes, the breakdown of that liability should also be there. Jsut need to make sure your name is there in that notes.

[kusuz]

Thank you for your response.

No unfortunately we asked about old passport she doesn't have it.
Yes she is British and has British birth certificate.
Would they consider as i think if mum is British by born then her son is automatic consider as British.

I don't see why not, especially as the Mother would clearly be born pre-1983. Just put forward your argument that they should accept the mother's birth cert as it is pre-1983

That's great then I can relax with one solution.
As well that will give me 20 points.
As if now I have been awarded 55 points
So 55+20 will make 75.
How many points do I need to get through?

[kusuz]

I made investment as a DL.
no we have not withdrawn money from the company. I taken 2 times salary of £5000 in 3 years.

OK. Since your salary cannot be counted against the investment, your latest accounts should still be showing a DL liability of 50K/200K + 10K . In the notes, the breakdown of that liability should also be there. Jsut need to make sure your name is there in that notes.

As well with investment side.
If accountant show in 2016-2017 annual report's notes about my DL liability would that much will be sufficient?
As I am not changing anything in my original year of investment report.
As well I assume it need to be submit to companies house before I make administrative review application!

[marcnath]

I made investment as a DL.
no we have not withdrawn money from the company. I taken 2 times salary of £5000 in 3 years.

OK. Since your salary cannot be counted against the investment, your latest accounts should still be showing a DL liability of 50K/200K + 10K . In the notes, the breakdown of that liability should also be there. Jsut need to make sure your name is there in that notes.

As well with investment side.
If accountant show in 2016-2017 annual report's notes about my DL liability would that much will be sufficient?

Yes.

As I am not changing anything in my original year of investment report.
As well I assume it need to be submit to companies house before I make administrative review application!

There is no requirement to submit to companies house before you apply.

You cannot submit additional documents for AR.
You can apply for AR, but you have very little chances of success as this was not CW error, but your mistakes in the evidence.
You should be looking at making a fresh application. Submitting for AR will give you some more time to prepare your fresh application.

[kusuz]

[/quote]
There is no requirement to submit to companies house before you apply.

You cannot submit additional documents for AR.
You can apply for AR, but you have very little chances of success as this was not CW error, but your mistakes in the evidence.
You should be looking at making a fresh application. Submitting for AR will give you some more time to prepare your fresh application.[/quote]

Ohh FRESH APPLICATION? You mean my extension visa's fresh application or AR's fresh application?

If for my visa then how can I do that? As my visa is already finished since 28th of February. will they allow that?

[marcnath]

Ohh FRESH APPLICATION? You mean my extension visa's fresh application or AR's fresh application?

If for my visa then how can I do that? As my visa is already finished since 28th of February. will they allow that?

Yes, it is a Fresh application for your extension. Exactly what you submitted earlier with the updated and correct documents. Obviously, you don't have your passport, BRP and maybe some other original documents that may be required - you can refer to the fact that they are with HO

You are still covered under Section 3C until such time as you AR is rejected or a fresh application is made. So no issues with submitting a new Fresh application. Officially, you will be an overstayer, so you/your dependants cannot be employed, for example. But most other practical things should be ok.

[jafersadeq]

I am worried about making and submitting accounts in 4 days, as our 14 days of deadline of submitting for administrative review.
as well the year 2013-2014 when i invested money we had major flood in our area which had damaged our property in major condition. We had big loss in that year and year after which had wiped our whole capital and my investment off. So i am worried and confused how can i show my investments in 2016 annual reports?

If you want to use 2013/2014 accounts, ask your accountant to prepare a new one without need to submit it to Companies House, I think he just adds your name in notes, and you sign the balance sheet and director's report.
I think HO does not compare your new accounts with the submitted one to C.H, if they do, there is no changes in your balance sheet figures.
Even the recent accounts you can make a new one without amending it with C.H because there are no changes in the balance sheet. The changes are in notes.

[schahzeb]

2) A birth certificate, which demonstrate the employee was born in UK before Jan 1983
If the employee was born in UK after Jan 1983, a birth certificate together with documentation such as a passport or naturalization certificate which confirms one of their parents had settled status in UK when employee was born and additionally if the parent is a father to the employee then a marriage certificate to the mother.

when did you apply for extension as i think the guidelines were updated on this in April only.

Yes, the guidelines were updated in April clarifying the documents required. But the rule requiring that was in place earlier. So, unfortunately, that will not help the argument.

For reference, the earlier guideline says (the relevant part underlined):
177. Documents kept by an employer as evidence that an employee is a settled worker will often be the passport pages from a UK passport that contain the employee’s personal details, and the page containing the UK Government stamp or endorsement, if appropriate. It may also be the
Tier 1(Entrepreneur) Policy Guidance version 11/2016 - Page 55
worker’s full birth certificate, showing the name of at least one parent. If it is not possible to establish the parent’s settled status from the birth certificate alone, you will also need to provide additional documentation, such as pages from your parents passport to demonstrate this.

Should'nt CW be requesting this if it's not clear from the birth certificate alone. As per my understanding the parents passport was made must only after the guidelines update. Before April they were accepting birth certificates on its own so might be a point to raise and attach parents passport in AR?

[marcnath]

Should'nt CW be requesting this if it's not clear from the birth certificate alone. As per my understanding the parents passport was made must only after the guidelines update. Before April they were accepting birth certificates on its own so might be a point to raise and attach parents passport in AR?

Yes, I agree it would have been much better if the CW had requested the additional info. But they are under no obligation to do so.

If they were accepting birth certificates for post 1983 born people before April, then the CWs who did that were making a mistake. Their own guidance (Dec 2016 version) states :

Settled status – additional documentation
If it is not possible to establish the parent’s settled status from the birth certificate alone, the applicant will also need to provide additional documentation, such as pages from their parent’s passport to demonstrate this.