Zambrano Case (Stampe 4 EU-FAM to Parent of Irish Citizen Child)

[Alixlboy]

Hi Friends,
My real brother is on a Stamp 4 EU-FAM visa and he also has a child from another non-EU girlfriend. His child is an Irish citizen.
His EU wife is not co-operating with him for their divorce.
I was just wondering whether my brother can switch his status from Stamp 4 EU-Fam to Stamp 4 (Parent of Irish citizen child)? Has anyone seen any such cases?
He was recently contacted by the EU Treaty Rights section and was advised to submit 2 years activity for himself and his EU partner, which he did yesterday. EUTR also said that they might revoke his stamp, if they are not satisfied with the submitted documents. In case his stamp gets revoked/cancelled, can he still apply on basis of parent of Irish citizen child? What are your thoughts?
EUTR are making lives of a lot of people ''living hell'' by requiring too much information from them and that doesn't make any sense. He has been married to his EU spouse for more than 3 years and was already in the process of getting divorced. So how on earth is she supposed to support him?

[Obie]

Why did EU treaty Right contact him? Did the lady contact them?

Ireland is interpreting Zambrano as restritively as the UK. I am hoping that the recent case will make it easier.

Is you brother playing a role in the life of the Irish Child?

[Alixlboy]

Why did EU treaty Right contact him? Did the lady contact them?

Ireland is interpreting Zambrano as restritively as the UK. I am hoping that the recent case will make it easier.

Is you brother playing a role in the life of the Irish Child?

Thanks for the reply Obie!
The reason why they contacted him is still unknown. He did apply for the stamp 4 for his partner (Mother of the Irish spouse child) a while ago, so that might have triggered it (not entirely sure though!)
Yes, My brother is playing a vital emotional and financial role in the life of the Irish Child, as he is the only person who is working for him. His wife cannot work until her stamp 4 has been approved.
He has applied for stamp 4 at this stage and he mentioned that he would want to switch his EU-Fam status to stamp 4 (parent of Irish child), because his EU spouse is not willing to co-operate with him.
In most of the cases it's extremely hard to convince INIS as regards your marriage being genuine, because INIS sometimes do not have full information available to them. Will that have any impact on change of his status from EU-Fam to Parent of Irish Child.
What would be your opinion?

Thanks,

[dupalsky]

Hey Alixlboy,

You are wrong in saying in your previous edit post and i quote "the reason the contacted him is still unknown". This cannot be true when according to your story in your first post, he had sent an application to switch his status. Stamp 4eufam(is giving based on your partnership and/or relationship with an eu person), when you contact immigration to change your status to stamp 4(stamp for parent of Irish born child. A child, by the way, according to your previous post does not belong to the eu citizen whom he Is in a relationship with), what idea do you think this will give to the immigration. Obviously, reading between the lines, from an immigration officer perspective, the relation broke down and you are with another woman now, hence the child you have with her. Therefore, questions they would have are was this real in the first place, did they live together at all, did they have anything to do with each other at all during these 2 years etc.

The above questions will need to be answered for them to determine whether his relationship with the eu citizen was real and authentic or not, as this will prove whether he was legal in the state in the first place before having his kid. I can't stress enough how important it is for the letter he wrote to them to have enough information to convince them otherwise.....

To answer your question, if someone's stamp is revoked, it might be possible to apply through a different route, as long as it is within the rules and regulations. The immigration is just following and making sure that others follow immigration rules. But you are right though, they can be a little too extreme, but that doesn't mean they are not within the law.

However, in this case, even though we don't have much information to work with here, like exactly when they got married, how long they live and share life together as a couple, was the eu living and working in the state all the years they have been married, what is the status of the mother of his child, does the mother of his child work, was he himself working and how long etc, it might a little more complicated than you might think.

Give more information and your question will be answered in the best possible way.

Dupalsky

[joker]

Good answer he will not get back to you because it was a paper marriage for visa and it hasn’t, worked out so try another country

[Obie]

Hi Friends,
My real brother is on a Stamp 4 EU-FAM visa and he also has a child from another non-EU girlfriend. His child is an Irish citizen.
His EU wife is not co-operating with him for their divorce.
I was just wondering whether my brother can switch his status from Stamp 4 EU-Fam to Stamp 4 (Parent of Irish citizen child)? Has anyone seen any such cases?
He was recently contacted by the EU Treaty Rights section and was advised to submit 2 years activity for himself and his EU partner, which he did yesterday. EUTR also said that they might revoke his stamp, if they are not satisfied with the submitted documents. In case his stamp gets revoked/cancelled, can he still apply on basis of parent of Irish citizen child? What are your thoughts?
EUTR are making lives of a lot of people ''living hell'' by requiring too much information from them and that doesn't make any sense. He has been married to his EU spouse for more than 3 years and was already in the process of getting divorced. So how on earth is she supposed to support him?

The difficulty for him is, if the minister finds that he ceases to have right under EU law, they will revoke his EU Fam, whiles they deal with his stamp 4 application.

[Alixlboy]

Good answer he will not get back to you because it was a paper marriage for visa and it hasn’t, worked out so try another country

Well, not all marriages are paper marriages, even though there is paperwork involved in all real as well as sham marriages. So back in the box lol
The only problem is that the eu spouse is no longer willing to cooperate with him.
If it was you in his place, would your wife be willing to cooperate with you, if you have a baby with another woman? Not really! That's called the jealousy factor, in the real world and that's the only problem in this case. Lol

[Alixlboy]

Hi Friends,
My real brother is on a Stamp 4 EU-FAM visa and he also has a child from another non-EU girlfriend. His child is an Irish citizen.
His EU wife is not co-operating with him for their divorce.
I was just wondering whether my brother can switch his status from Stamp 4 EU-Fam to Stamp 4 (Parent of Irish citizen child)? Has anyone seen any such cases?
He was recently contacted by the EU Treaty Rights section and was advised to submit 2 years activity for himself and his EU partner, which he did yesterday. EUTR also said that they might revoke his stamp, if they are not satisfied with the submitted documents. In case his stamp gets revoked/cancelled, can he still apply on basis of parent of Irish citizen child? What are your thoughts?
EUTR are making lives of a lot of people ''living hell'' by requiring too much information from them and that doesn't make any sense. He has been married to his EU spouse for more than 3 years and was already in the process of getting divorced. So how on earth is she supposed to support him?

The difficulty for him is, if the minister finds that he ceases to have right under EU law, they will revoke his EU Fam, whiles they deal with his stamp 4 application.

Thanks for the to-the-point reply (like always).
I guess his stamp 4 eu fam might really get revoked, because his eu spouse is not willing to support him and if the INIS try to contact her, she won't cooperate.
It doesn't really matter at this stage now, because he has already applied for the Irish child parent stamp 4 and he is going for the DNA test soon.

[Alixlboy]

Hey Alixlboy,

You are wrong in saying in your previous edit post and i quote "the reason the contacted him is still unknown". This cannot be true when according to your story in your first post, he had sent an application to switch his status. Stamp 4eufam(is giving based on your partnership and/or relationship with an eu person), when you contact immigration to change your status to stamp 4(stamp for parent of Irish born child. A child, by the way, according to your previous post does not belong to the eu citizen whom he Is in a relationship with), what idea do you think this will give to the immigration. Obviously, reading between the lines, from an immigration officer perspective, the relation broke down and you are with another woman now, hence the child you have with her. Therefore, questions they would have are was this real in the first place, did they live together at all, did they have anything to do with each other at all during these 2 years etc.

The above questions will need to be answered for them to determine whether his relationship with the eu citizen was real and authentic or not, as this will prove whether he was legal in the state in the first place before having his kid. I can't stress enough how important it is for the letter he wrote to them to have enough information to convince them otherwise.....

To answer your question, if someone's stamp is revoked, it might be possible to apply through a different route, as long as it is within the rules and regulations. The immigration is just following and making sure that others follow immigration rules. But you are right though, they can be a little too extreme, but that doesn't mean they are not within the law.

However, in this case, even though we don't have much information to work with here, like exactly when they got married, how long they live and share life together as a couple, was the eu living and working in the state all the years they have been married, what is the status of the mother of his child, does the mother of his child work, was he himself working and how long etc, it might a little more complicated than you might think.

Give more information and your question will be answered in the best possible way.

Dupalsky

FYI, when INIS write anyone such letter, they do not tell them the reason for that letter.
All they said was that they were unable to see the eu spouse s activity in the state, which is totally wrong. My brother immediately sent them the self assessment for the eu spouse for two years. They should have realized their mistake, however, they asked for full activity such as bank statements and invoices for 2 years. Such a painful requirement it was. How can they expect my brother to be able to convince that stubborn lady?! He somehow managed to send them 2 years activity though and he has also applied for change of status.
His non eu partner came from the USA, however, her parents were not happy with this relationship, so my brother married the eu spouse during their temporary separation. It's a long and personal story though. No point in going into too much details. So I have kept it short.
INIS are merely trying to annoy him at this stage.

[Wifeofaking]

Thanks for the to-the-point reply (like always).
I guess his stamp 4 eu fam might really get revoked, because his eu spouse is not willing to support him and if the INIS try to contact her, she won't cooperate.
It doesn't really matter at this stage now, because he has already applied for the Irish child parent stamp 4 and he is going for the DNA test soon.
[/quote]

Hi @Alixlboy

Sorry about your brother, some women can be so mean. But things will work out for him. Please if you don't mind me asking do you know his time frame on his application on parent of an Irish Child, date he applied, date they sent him a acknowledgment letter and when they told him to go do DNA, if you can kindly share that I'll appreciate it. Ta

And does anyone else know if someone doesn't have any status in the state and apply has a parent of an Irish Child, does INIS take more longer to decide on the Application?

[Alixlboy]

Hi Wifeofking,

He applied around April 2017, got the acknowledgement letter after around one week or so and he also got two letters from INIS in relation to a lot of questions that they asked his partner (such as how they got into a relationship and the current situation with the EU spouse etc).
They finally asked him for the DNA proof in Sept this year and said that the minister is still not satisfied.
His partner came from the USA and had no legal status in Ireland for a while (during pregnancy) and it now seems to have taken her around 6 months.
They have got a DNA test scheduled on the 20th of this month and they are hoping to get a decision by the end of this month hopefully (fingers crossed).

[Mark_ir]

Hi Alixlboy,
Would you please tell us,is that DNA the final step of this application? Or they ask more thing after that.

[Alixlboy]

Hi Mark,

I have read a couple of posts on this forum that suggest that DNA is the final step involved and this will surely satisfy the minister of justice, and once the DNA test has taken place, it takes only two weeks to get a decision from the immigration.

[Wifeofaking]

Hi Wifeofking,

He applied around April 2017, got the acknowledgement letter after around one week or so and he also got two letters from INIS in relation to a lot of questions that they asked his partner (such as how they got into a relationship and the current situation with the EU spouse etc).
They finally asked him for the DNA proof in Sept this year and said that the minister is still not satisfied.
His partner came from the USA and had no legal status in Ireland for a while (during pregnancy) and it now seems to have taken her around 6 months.
They have got a DNA test scheduled on the 20th of this month and they are hoping to get a decision by the end of this month hopefully (fingers crossed).

@Alixlboy,
Thanks so much for your reply, but you quoted

"no legal status in Ireland for a while (during pregnancy) and it now seems to have taken her around 6 months."

So the Application is taking 6 months for inis to reply to her? Has she done DNA test also??? Please

[Mark_ir]

Thanks Alixlboy

[Alixlboy]

@Wifeofking

That's right. She is yet to attend the DNA test on the 20th of this month. So her decision might be due in around 7 months in total or so.

[Alixlboy]

Thanks Alixlboy

You're welcome and Good luck!

[Wifeofaking]

@Wifeofking

That's right. She is yet to attend the DNA test on the 20th of this month. So her decision might be due in around 7 months in total or so.

@Alixlboy thanks so much for your reply, I'll just sit back and relax, I still have a long wait has I only jst applied on the 18th of September this year. Lol

[Alixlboy]

LOL!
Yeah - just chillax and take it easy! Good Luck!