Employee Claiming Points - zero hour contract

[9elizabeth]

Hello all,
I created Job position Title - Sales Executive. I have four people (all part-time) working for this position on zero. If I add all four's hour every month, the total comes as follows:
Employee Name January February March April May
Employee A 30 Hrs. 10 Hrs 108 Hrs 5 Hrs 0 hrs
Employee B 10 Hrs. 13 Hrs 13 Hrs 11 Hrs 10 hrs
Employee C 50 Hrs. 110 Hrs 130 Hrs 90 Hrs 85 hrs
Employee D 70 Hrs. 19 Hrs 40 Hrs 20 Hrs 45 hrs
Hence The total (if all four added together comes as follows): January: 160 Hours, February: 152 Hours, March: 291 Hours, April: 126 Hours, May: 140 Hours

The home office says that they consider 120 hours per month as full time. Will they consider the above-stated position as ONE FULL TIME? The total for the month of March comes 291 hours which is more than even two months full-time works (130x2=260) hour.

I am sure, some other people would have been in the same position who has his visa extended, Please comment.

[marcnath]

Hello all,
I created Job position Title - Sales Executive. I have four people (all part-time) working for this position on zero. If I add all four's hour every month, the total comes as follows:
Employee Name January February March April May
Employee A 30 Hrs. 10 Hrs 108 Hrs 5 Hrs 0 hrs
Employee B 10 Hrs. 13 Hrs 13 Hrs 11 Hrs 10 hrs
Employee C 50 Hrs. 110 Hrs 130 Hrs 90 Hrs 85 hrs
Employee D 70 Hrs. 19 Hrs 40 Hrs 20 Hrs 45 hrs
Hence The total (if all four added together comes as follows): January: 160 Hours, February: 152 Hours, March: 291 Hours, April: 126 Hours, May: 140 Hours

The home office says that they consider 120 hours per month as full time. Will they consider the above-stated position as ONE FULL TIME? The total for the month of March comes 291 hours which is more than even two months full-time works (130x2=260) hour.

I am sure, some other people would have been in the same position who has his visa extended, Please comment.

Yes, the rules allow you to combine these 4 jobs to be one FT job provided all the jobs continue for a total of at least 12 months.
To be clear, it will only be counted as 1 FT job, even if the hours exceed 120.

Just one word of caution. While the guidance mentions 120 hours/month, the immigration rules only specify 30 hours/week. I think the 120 hrs/week was a mistake by HO and they have at least in one case rejected an extension. While I believe HO still has to honor the 120 hours they mention in the guidance, you would be better off if you meet 30 hrs/week or 130 hours/month to minimize the possibility of a rejection.

[PeterLove2008]

Hello all,
I created Job position Title - Sales Executive. I have four people (all part-time) working for this position on zero. If I add all four's hour every month, the total comes as follows:
Employee Name January February March April May
Employee A 30 Hrs. 10 Hrs 108 Hrs 5 Hrs 0 hrs
Employee B 10 Hrs. 13 Hrs 13 Hrs 11 Hrs 10 hrs
Employee C 50 Hrs. 110 Hrs 130 Hrs 90 Hrs 85 hrs
Employee D 70 Hrs. 19 Hrs 40 Hrs 20 Hrs 45 hrs
Hence The total (if all four added together comes as follows): January: 160 Hours, February: 152 Hours, March: 291 Hours, April: 126 Hours, May: 140 Hours

The home office says that they consider 120 hours per month as full time. Will they consider the above-stated position as ONE FULL TIME? The total for the month of March comes 291 hours which is more than even two months full-time works (130x2=260) hour.

I am sure, some other people would have been in the same position who has his visa extended, Please comment.

If you got your T1E visa before 06 April 2014, then you are covered by the transitional rules, otherwise, the answer is no.

[marcnath]

If you got your T1E visa before 06 April 2014, then you are covered by the transitional rules, otherwise, the answer is no.

Sorry, @PeterLove2008, can you explain why it is not valid under post 2014 rules ? Which part in the immigration rules or guidance prevents this ?

[9elizabeth]

Hi,
my innitial visa was granted on November 2014. PeterLove2008 are you sure?
I am not combining them as two different jobs. All these 4 employes are making just one job position.

[marcnath]

Hi,
my innitial visa was granted on November 2014. PeterLove2008 are you sure?
I am not combining them as two different jobs. All these 4 employes are making just one job position.

The pre or post April 2014 depends on when you applied for the visa, not when it was granted.
While I agree with your logic of combining 4 employees for one job position and I strongly believe it is allowed under the rules, it appears not all CWs get the concept.
There was a recent case where this approach was rejected (uk-tier-1-entrepreneur-visas/decision-t ... 41262.html)
The applicant has gone for an AR and I am hopeful the decision will be overturned.
It is possibly easier for you to list them as 4 separate part time jobs (J1 = Sales Executive 1, J2=Sales Executive 2, etc.) and indicate they are to be combined in the application form by listing J2, J3 and J4 as the jobs to be combined with J1 and so on. That is the more typical approach and something CWs may be more used to.

[Faheemryk]

my visa was refused because I was claiming more than 130 hours per month.

However, in my letter, home office clearly wrote that maximum hours they consider for 1 FT job are 130 hours per month.

[marcnath]

my visa was refused because I was claiming more than 130 hours per month.

To avoid any confusion, just clarifying the language. You refusal was not BECAUSE you claimed more than 130 hours per month. It was because you did not meet the requirement of 104 weeks of 30 hours each.
There are no issues with having more than 130 hours per month (30 hrs per week) but for the calculation of points, you only get credit for 30 hrs per week - this is very clearly set out in the guidelines.

[PeterLove2008]

my visa was refused because I was claiming more than 130 hours per month.

However, in my letter, home office clearly wrote that maximum hours they consider for 1 FT job are 130 hours per month.

I think your refusal is not because you claimed more than 130 hrs a month.
When home office saying "max 130 hours per month", they mean the hours above 130 hours/month will not be considered, meaning it is wasted, thus you can't use the additional hours to claim another working month.

[PeterLove2008]

5 time=1509230961 user_id=161110]

If you got your T1E visa before 06 April 2014, then you are covered by the transitional rules, otherwise, the answer is no.

Sorry, @PeterLove2008, can you explain why it is not valid under post 2014 rules ? Which part in the immigration rules or guidance prevents this ?

Sorry I should have watched the wording.
As you said, the Pre- or Post 06 April 2014, it is about "successfully applied but not granted" the visa. Sorry for the wrong wording.

When I said "no", it is based on the Guidance #175:
"If you successfully applied for entry clearance or switched into the route from 6 April 2014, the employment must:
- be for at least 2 separate jobs;
- exist for at least a full 12 months each."

Obviously the ONLY job he mentioned (sales executive) only last for 5 months (Jan - May). Hence it's a "no" if he applied his visa after 06 Apr 2014.

[PeterLove2008]

Hi,
my innitial visa was granted on November 2014. PeterLove2008 are you sure?
I am not combining them as two different jobs. All these 4 employes are making just one job position.

Please refer to my ABOVE reply to marcnath.

[marcnath]

5 time=1509230961 user_id=161110]

If you got your T1E visa before 06 April 2014, then you are covered by the transitional rules, otherwise, the answer is no.

Sorry, @PeterLove2008, can you explain why it is not valid under post 2014 rules ? Which part in the immigration rules or guidance prevents this ?

Sorry I should have watched the wording.
As you said, the Pre- or Post 06 April 2014, it is about "successfully applied but not granted" the visa. Sorry for the wrong wording.

When I said "no", it is based on the Guidance #175:
"If you successfully applied for entry clearance or switched into the route from 6 April 2014, the employment must:
- be for at least 2 separate jobs;
- exist for at least a full 12 months each."

Obviously the jobs he mentioned only last for 4 months, and it is the same job. hence it's a "no" if he applied his visa after 06 Apr 2014.

The OP was only checking if those jobs could be combined to ONE FULL TIME (caps are from the OP's original post) job, not whether it satisfies the full requirement of 2 jobs of 12 months each. It was related to combining part-time jobs to get an equivalent of a full time job.

Anyway, the hours listed by the OP would not have satisfied the full requirement even under the pre-April 2014 rules. There is no difference in the combining of PT jobs between pre and post April 2014, with the exception that all PT jobs in post 2014 should last 12 months each.

In short, this OP's situation, as described, is not impacted by whether it is pre or post April 2014, except for the fact that all PT jobs should be 12 months each post April 2014.

[marcnath]

Hi,
my innitial visa was granted on November 2014. PeterLove2008 are you sure?
I am not combining them as two different jobs. All these 4 employes are making just one job position.

The pre or post April 2014 depends on when you applied for the visa, not when it was granted.
While I agree with your logic of combining 4 employees for one job position and I strongly believe it is allowed under the rules, it appears not all CWs get the concept.
There was a recent case where this approach was rejected (uk-tier-1-entrepreneur-visas/decision-t ... 41262.html)
The applicant has gone for an AR and I am hopeful the decision will be overturned.
It is possibly easier for you to list them as 4 separate part time jobs (J1 = Sales Executive 1, J2=Sales Executive 2, etc.) and indicate they are to be combined in the application form by listing J2, J3 and J4 as the jobs to be combined with J1 and so on. That is the more typical approach and something CWs may be more used to.

@9elizabeth - apologies but I need to make a correction to the above. If you do it as I suggested above (separate jobs J1 to J4), you will need to be sure that each of the employees have worked and paid for 52 weeks (excluding zero hour weeks) If they have not, you are better off following your initial proposal of listing all employees under one job. I would suggest that you would add an additional table in your cover letter showing how exactly that job has 52 weeks of more than 30 hrs/week. Basically, the way you initially described in the original post but week by week, with the total showing against each week.

[9elizabeth]

Thank you very much for all of yours reply.
I have reflected upon what you guys suggested and have amended my table. Please see ATTACHED IMAGE of the calculation of working hours table. The table has two Job position (JP). JP 1 is warehouse admin. That is nice and clean.
JP 2 - Sales Executives. Please pay attention and suggest if its good enough to count as 2ND FULL TIME POSITION? ( I am a bit worried after reading the other post uk-tier-1-entrepreneur-visas/decision-t ... 41262.html )

12.jpg (47.69 KiB) Viewed 1418 times

[marcnath]

Thank you very much for all of yours reply.
I have reflected upon what you guys suggested and have amended my table. Please see ATTACHED IMAGE of the calculation of working hours table. The table has two Job position (JP). JP 1 is warehouse admin. That is nice and clean.
JP 2 - Sales Executives. Please pay attention and suggest if its good enough to count as 2ND FULL TIME POSITION? ( I am a bit worried after reading the other post uk-tier-1-entrepreneur-visas/decision-t ... 41262.html )
12.jpg

I believe this would work, but my personal preference would be to still do the Online Sales Executive 1 and Online Sales executive 2 as Job 2 and Job 3. Then you can use the regular job table in the application form (no need for a separate one) and clearly indicate the Job 2 and Job 3 are to be combined in the same table. I personally that fits more into the usual scenario for the CW and is easier for them to handle, even if the way you did is not wrong.

[9elizabeth]

Thanks marcnath.
This is the most simplified one I could create.
In total I have eight people, I am not going to show all eight workers on the Employment Claim Form. Only the relevant one. The rest, I would put as Third Job though would not be claiming their working hours points.

[marcnath]

Thanks marcnath.
This is the most simplified one I could create.
In total I have eight people, I am not going to show all eight workers on the Employment Claim Form. Only the relevant one. The rest, I would put as Third Job though would not be claiming their working hours points.

In your application, you only need to fill in the form and provide documents for the employees you are claiming points for.

[ent46]

HI
Can I have a Part Time employee working 16 hours a week for 104 weeks be counted as 1 full time employee.

Best Regards
Ent46

[zimba]

HI
Can I have a Part Time employee working 16 hours a week for 104 weeks be counted as 1 full time employee.

Best Regards
Ent46

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