Notice of marriage and pending applications

[Branok]

Hi

I need some help with an FLR(fp) application and I would be very grateful for any advice. We are applying for the 10-year route as an unmarried partner and I got two questions.

Background:
I’m British and she is an over stayer since 7 years (entered as tourist). We are relying on the Ex1 exception based on having a 6 months old son together who got a British passport. We have been living together for 6 years.

We should meet all the requirements however we can’t prove cohabiting. I own the property and all the bills are in my name and as an over stayer she can’t have bank accounts and direct debits. We can provide GP letters and NHS bills over the last year in her name (all paid in full) but it is not enough to cover two years…

Questions
1) The form says we can write a letter explaining why we can’t produce the evidence. Would they accept having a son together and 1 year of letters at the same address with an explanation of not being able to have accounts/bills while not having legal status? Or would I just be wasting their time?

2)If they decide that we do not have enough evidence for “E-LTRP.1.7. The relationship between the applicant and their partner must be genuine and subsisting.”. Would they consider her as parent? That would be weird as we live together… but it is also a bit weird that there is a 2-year gap between parent and partner where you end up between the chairs a bit.


Thank you for reading

[Branok]

After spending the day reading up and hunting down information I can answer my own questions and I thought I would post them here in case anyone else comes across them.

1) Would be a waste of time, the 2-year rule of documentation is set in stone regardless of how long you have actually been living together. Having a child together is not enough either to show your relationship is akin marriage.

2) She would not be considered under parent route as the 2-year rules doesn't apply here so just living together for 15min would mean she has a partner and not eligibly for the parent route.


In short we are in limbo and can't do anything to sort out the situation at the moment. We can't go to her country and marry or apply for fiancee visa as I'm currently in between jobs (on a 9-month world wide non-compete clause) and even though I have more than £62.5k in savings it will be below that level in 2-3months when we could realistically apply.

I'm guessing there is an 99.91% chance fo getting arrested if we try to give notice to marry here?

[bathanza]

It'll be a big risk to give notice to a registrar, your application to get married will be referred to the HO and they will decide to either grant permission to marry after 28 days or extend to 70 whilst they investigate under sham marriage act. Without a pending case you risk her detainment.

Having two years of proof would be important. As it's easy for you to have bills and credit cards under your name, may I suggest joint council tax, electric gas or water bill and home insurance?

Although you're both liable, you're the main person who pays and she will be joint account holder. Have these bills sent in paper format every 4 months to fulfill the requirement for cohabitation. Look at the FLR form for documentation, three separate sources in joint names spread through the years.

Her chance lies with establishing private life as well as the genuineness of your relationship, and proof is what you need.

As scary as it is, hold off to get your proof and then apply. Prepare for rejection then appeal as these cases can be very difficult to approve. Short of that, a return journey home and then a spousal visa when ready may the the getaway card

[New on forum]

After spending the day reading up and hunting down information I can answer my own questions and I thought I would post them here in case anyone else comes across them.

1) Would be a waste of time, the 2-year rule of documentation is set in stone regardless of how long you have actually been living together. Having a child together is not enough either to show your relationship is akin marriage.

2) She would not be considered under parent route as the 2-year rules doesn't apply here so just living together for 15min would mean she has a partner and not eligibly for the parent route.


In short we are in limbo and can't do anything to sort out the situation at the moment. We can't go to her country and marry or apply for fiancee visa as I'm currently in between jobs (on a 9-month world wide non-compete clause) and even though I have more than £62.5k in savings it will be below that level in 2-3months when we could realistically apply.

I'm guessing there is an 99.91% chance fo getting arrested if we try to give notice to marry here?

I would say go for the marriage.
Home office might investigate but I am very confident that they will not detain her as she is mother to a British child and section 55 duty stops them from doing so.
Maybe a bit stressful but you will be fine.

[Branok]

Thank you both for your replies.

Bathanza: I’ll add her to all our bills from today, then at least we got that in two years time if needed. Hopefully we can go down the proper and preferred way of spouse visa from home country before then (9months + 6months).

New on forum: As there is a British parent with parental responsibility don't you think that they will take the view that it is fine to detain her and leave our son with me? I.e the same reasons as they would refuse a parent application.

[New on forum]

Thank you both for your replies.

Bathanza: I’ll add her to all our bills from today, then at least we got that in two years time if needed. Hopefully we can go down the proper and preferred way of spouse visa from home country before then (9months + 6months).

New on forum: As there is a British parent with parental responsibility don't you think that they will take the view that it is fine to detain her and leave our son with me? I.e the same reasons as they would refuse a parent application.

No i don't think so.
They will likely put you on reporting.
If there is no criminal record of this parent then I will be surprised if they detain her.
They have a lot of people who are priority for removal/deportation.
In my view it will be hard to remove her or even detain her.

[bathanza]

Somewhat agree, never heard of a mother being deported. I know several cases of non EEA fathers with British Children deported and had to come in via spousal, that's after 1 year ban.

With all costs, avoid deportation and voluntary departure is better BUT as she is a mother it does lessen the risk. I would fear for her on your registry or indeed any interviews as the HO notoriously get things wrong. You don't want to stress her or your child.

Wait another year with proof then apply once you have it all under FLR FP unmarried partner route perhaps?

[Branok]

We spent the day reading horror stories about people getting arrested during wedding ceremonies....

At the end of the day the most important is to spend the first time together with our son without too much stress and I was expecting the FLR(fp) to help with that but it doesn't look likely. So we think we might just hold off for another year, we are not on any ones radar so when I'm allowed to work again we will go down the proper spouse route. Then we can have a real wedding and not just a couple of witnesses while looking over the shoulders expecting the door to be knocked down.

I have really appreciated your input, it was great to have two opinions to play with and even though the result was not what I was hoping for in the beginning they have given me a much better understanding of our situation. Thank you!

[blackkent]

Have you considered her applying for Leave Outside Of The Rules On the basis of your family life ?

1. it will be unreasonable to expect her to take a british child to another country
2. If you can prove genuine and subsisting relationship
3. She is the mother, it is in very rare occasions that mothers are deported with British babies, only when there is a case of criminality.

Maybe this is a line you should consider.

[blackkent]

We spent the day reading horror stories about people getting arrested during wedding ceremonies....

At the end of the day the most important is to spend the first time together with our son without too much stress and I was expecting the FLR(fp) to help with that but it doesn't look likely. So we think we might just hold off for another year, we are not on any ones radar so when I'm allowed to work again we will go down the proper spouse route. Then we can have a real wedding and not just a couple of witnesses while looking over the shoulders expecting the door to be knocked down.

I have really appreciated your input, it was great to have two opinions to play with and even though the result was not what I was hoping for in the beginning they have given me a much better understanding of our situation. Thank you!

Have you considered her applying for Leave Outside Of The Rules On the basis of your family life ?

1. it will be unreasonable to expect her to take a british child to another country
2. If you can prove genuine and subsisting relationship
3. She is the mother, it is in very rare occasions that mothers are deported with British babies, only when there is a case of criminality.

Maybe this is a line you should consider.

[Branok]

Yes, this was the reason we were going for the FLR(fp) application.

However for the point nr#2 (If you can prove genuine and subsisting relationship) they demand 2 years of utility bills with both names on them as we all know that renting a cancellable gas pipe together for 2 years is more of a commitment then having a family. We can't do that as I have all the bills in my name :/

[Branok]

Hi,

I have seen posts/advice that before giving notice to marry you should try to have a pending case.
i.e even if you know you don't have enough cohabiting evidence put in an application for an unmarried partner before going down to the registrar.

Why is this?

[Casa]

The Registrar is legally bound to notify the Home Office who can then extend the notification period from 28 to 70 days in order to interview you both separately before the wedding can go ahead, should they choose to do so. If you have no legal status in the UK you are at risk of being detained on the day.

Edit: I've moved you post from the EEA route sub-forum as I can see from your previous post that you are a dual British/EEA citizen. You are therefore unable to sponsor your partner under the EEA Regulations and for immigration purposes, you are only considered to be a British citizen.

[Branok]

Thank you for your reply Casa,

They will for sure put us on a 70day period and interview us. I have just seen the advice a few times and was wondering if it maybe lessens the risk of actual detention and makes it more likely with reporting to becket house instead? Can't see why that would be the case though?

I'm originally from another EU country and have a blue booklet with permanent residence before naturalising as a British citizen. In my limited understanding I'm hoping that the Lounes judgment from November will apply to us and allow for an application under EEA laws.

[Branok]

Hi again, more questions!

If we put in an application for FLR(fp) or EEA EFM before giving notice to get married it should in theory “protect” us from being detained during the HO interview as we have a pending application.

However, that means we will no longer have access the passports and can’t give notice? How do people get around this?

[New on forum]

Hi again, more questions!

If we put in an application for FLR(fp) or EEA EFM before giving notice to get married it should in theory “protect” us from being detained during the HO interview as we have a pending application.

However, that means we will no longer have access the passports and can’t give notice? How do people get around this?

Give notice of marriage a day before posting the application and show the registrar original passports on the day of notice they will take the copy of passports and you won’t be required to produce them again.

[Branok]

Give notice of marriage a day before posting the application and show the registrar original passports on the day of notice they will take the copy of passports and you won’t be required to produce them again.

That makes sense, if they make a copy then the originals are not needed at the big day.
Sometimes things are so simple that you overlook them, thank you for pointing it out!



To the mods: Sorry for making a new thread, will keep the rest in this thread.

[bathanza]

Hi again, more questions!

If we put in an application for FLR(fp) or EEA EFM before giving notice to get married it should in theory “protect” us from being detained during the HO interview as we have a pending application.

However, that means we will no longer have access the passports and can’t give notice? How do people get around this?

Give notice of marriage a day before posting the application and show the registrar original passports on the day of notice they will take the copy of passports and you won’t be required to produce them again.

British citizens birth certificate (pre 1982) is acceptable as a form of ID if you submit yours if you submit your passport for an application. You can submit a national ID for the non EEA applicant/post the passport just in case after marriage.

The registrar WILL refer you on the day you apply for a marriage date. In this time you may require interviewing. You may pose a risk that the registrar will ask for an original. Clear this by calling them.

I strongly suggest if you are to get interviewed or marry on the day with NO case have a solicitor on standby.

At a marriage interview a HO officer took the couples passport and was told to start reporting. A member posted this last week or so (on mobile can't search properly)

[Branok]

British citizens birth certificate (pre 1982) is acceptable as a form of ID if you submit yours if you submit your passport for an application. You can submit a national ID for the non EEA applicant/post the passport just in case after marriage.

The registrar WILL refer you on the day you apply for a marriage date. In this time you may require interviewing. You may pose a risk that the registrar will ask for an original. Clear this by calling them.

I strongly suggest if you are to get interviewed or marry on the day with NO case have a solicitor on standby.

At a marriage interview a HO officer took the couples passport and was told to start reporting. A member posted this last week or so (on mobile can't search properly)

I got 5 acceptable proofs for myself (2xPassports, Naturalisation certificate, EEA ID card and a UK residence card) so for me it's not a problem. I'm more worried about my partner only having one. Maybe just maybe we can get a national ID card for her but that would probably take a lot of time.

I found the post you talked about, a couple with a 20months old toddler. Horrible story I really hope they got it sorted. Do you think in their situation as they have already shown the originals to the registrar they can get married without them, like New on forum suggested?

[bathanza]

I didn't show my originals but had just in case

What's her nationalty

[Casa]

I'm from Germany and she is from Argentina.

I asked a friend who recently got married and they didn't need to show anything on the day but then again they are both British.

That's the difference!

[Branok]

Update:

We gave notice of intent to marry a few days ago. The registrar was polite and explained all procedures etc. He also confirmed that they will not ask for the passports again.

A few interesting things from the chat with him:

* They will not ask to see the passports again
* Home office has apparently recently started to pick up people for deportation BEFORE the interview stage
* A genuine couple with children who passed the interview was recently picked up and deported on the wedding day
* He reckon they only do this with people who are not currently reporting to the home office

So I'm sh*tting myself a little bit at the moment as we don't have a pending case. If we were to send in an EEA EFM application and refer to Lounes, will that been seen as we are trying to frustrate them and buying time?

[Branok]

Update:

On the very last day of the 28 day notice it got extended to 70, we have given them the things they asked for so now it's a waiting game to see if there will be an interview or a good morning raid.

We did file an EEA EFM application so we have something pending now. Will be interesting to see the reply to it.

[eu guru]

How did things go with you. Did you already got married

[Branok]

We haven’t heard anything back yet, neither from the EFM application nor the marriage notice. Got another 2weeks on the 70days notice.