Rights whilst application in process

[Samj008]

Hi there,

I have an application for Naturalisation based on my marriage to my Irish wife. I am from New Zealand and have lived in NI for 10 years based on my Scottish Grand father. During my application my latest ancestry visa has expired (in March 18) but my application was sent in Oct 17. They have just asked to see my current right to remain in the country and I am concerned they are going to use this to try and decline my application, can they do that?

Thank you in advance for your reply.

[Mal111]

as on their website inis states you have to be legally residence in state at all times.
so technically they can ask you proof of your status at any time while your application is in process and can hold your application.
so I suggest you keep your legal status up to date at all times.

[Samj008]

Thank you for your reply Mal, with all the information out there, I have not seen that. Could you provide a link to where it states that?

[Mal111]

http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/WP16000022

read this page all info u need is there

[Samj008]

Apologies Mal,

But that page says "Be now legally resident on the Ireland of island." I take that to mean at the time of application. I can find nothing else on that page which states that my right to remain must be in place the entire time of processing. Some here have had processing go on for 2 years or more.

Thank you for your help though, I don't want to seem ungrateful to a long time poster.

[Mal111]

well im one of many applicants whos application is still under process for almost 2 years.
and yes they don't say explicitly but they do assume that the time your application is in process your still a non eu/irish citizen therefore until you become irish those rules applies.

[Samj008]

Hi Mal,

Hopefully you get to see this. But it has come to my attention, so I thought I would ask. As I am the spouse of an EEA national qualified person in the UK. I believe I am legal under EU law, do you know if this is the case?

Cheers,
Sam

[Mal111]

if you have a letter from immigration office covering for that period or a stamp on your passport ur fine.
being a spouse of eu national doesn't automatically cover your entitlement you have to apply for it and it has to be approved after considering all conditions meet by INIS

[Samj008]

From reading up I believe it is different because we are in the UK.

Essentially because Mairead is "a qualified person" (An eea national working in another eea state under free movement rules.) With or without documentation, provided I can prove that I am legitimately her spouse, I am free to live and work in the UK.

This it the piece of relavent UK legislation
"Extended right of residence
14.—(1) A qualified person is entitled to reside in the United Kingdom for as long as that person remains a qualified person.

(2) A person (“P”) who is a family member of a qualified person residing in the United Kingdom under paragraph (1) or of an EEA national with a right of permanent residence under regulation 15 is entitled to remain in the United Kingdom for so long as P remains the family member of that person or EEA national."

[Mal111]

it clearly say on inis website that you CAN NOT use residence permit of other eu country in Ireland you have to apply for Irish residence card.
I suggest you read the eu treaty right section.

also I am surprise to read about permanent residence because I thought once you acquire permanent residence its not subject to the condition that if your divorce the permanent residence right seize to exists the only way you loss this right is by staying out of the country for 2 years or if you have gain this right via sham marriage or fraud


thanks

[Samj008]

Alright I am a little confused...

My issue is solely around my application for Naturalisation in Ireland. INIS have asked for proof of my legal right of residence in Northern Ireland (UK), this is based around my marriage to an EEA qualified person exercising treaty rights in the UK. The EU says that I am legal in the UK with or without a residence card (which as yet I have not applied for).

So if I go back to INIS and say that my legal right to remain in Northern Ireland is based in EU law, I should satisfy their concern about my legal right to be on the Island of Ireland, which that coupled with my marriage is the foundation of my application for naturalisation.

[Mal111]

my understanding is a British citizen living in northern Ireland can apply for Irish citizenship a non eu living in northern Ireland cannot apply for Irish citizenship.
you can apply for British citizenship but I fail to understand how are you applying for irish citizenship if you not a British citizen and your not living in republic of Ireland however if they have already accepted your application then I guess im wrong


( I have very little knowledge on northern Ireland so maybe wait for senior members to response)

[Samj008]

The rules regarding Irish citizenship...

If you are the spouse or civil partner of an Irish citizen who is applying for Irish citizenship, you must meet the following conditions:

• You must be married to or in a recognised civil partnership* with the Irish citizen for at least 3 years
• You must have had a period of 1 year's continuous reckonable residence - see below - in the island of Ireland immediately before the date of your application, and during the 4 years preceding that, have had a total reckonable residence in the island of Ireland amounting to 2 years. Altogether you must have a total of 3 years reckonable residence out of the last 5 years.
• Your marriage or civil partnership must be recognised as valid under Irish law
• You and your spouse or civil partner must be living together as a married couple or civil partners
• You must be of full age, good character and intend to continue to live on the island of Ireland
• You must have made a declaration of fidelity to the nation and loyalty to the State.

The key is the Island of Ireland, for citizenship based on marriage, living in Northern Ireland counts.

[Mal111]

that's great I didn't know that its good to learn something every day.

but the fact remain the same if the visa you hold that is expire in march 2018 then how can you prove your legal residence in northern Ireland?

just look the post topic citizenship ceremony may 21 you will see a member name broil latst post they are very strict on legal residence these days

[Samj008]

I think I am going to write back informing them of my legal right under EU law, and inform them that I have applied for my residence card.

At the end of the day, once I get the card I can travel anyway. But I am hoping to get my Naturalisation sooner rather than later, so I hope they accept it.

[chaoclive]

Hi Mal,

Hopefully you get to see this. But it has come to my attention, so I thought I would ask. As I am the spouse of an EEA national qualified person in the UK. I believe I am legal under EU law, do you know if this is the case?

Cheers,
Sam

Does your Irish wife also have British citizenship, e.g. if she was born in NI?

[chaoclive]

my understanding is a British citizen living in northern Ireland can apply for Irish citizenship a non eu living in northern Ireland cannot apply for Irish citizenship.
you can apply for British citizenship but I fail to understand how are you applying for irish citizenship if you not a British citizen and your not living in republic of Ireland however if they have already accepted your application then I guess im wrong


( I have very little knowledge on northern Ireland so maybe wait for senior members to response)

Omg. If you don't know what the OP is talking about, it would be a good idea to NOT reply. Your answers do not help. You obviously don't understand the basis for his application for Irish citizenship (marriage/civil partnership with an Irish citizen living on the island of Ireland) and his legal residence in NI (under EEA law).

[chaoclive]

I think I am going to write back informing them of my legal right under EU law, and inform them that I have applied for my residence card.

At the end of the day, once I get the card I can travel anyway. But I am hoping to get my Naturalisation sooner rather than later, so I hope they accept it.

Read this:

'Where the residency is in Northern Ireland, evidence must be given of being lawfully resident in that jurisdiction
for the period of 1 year immediately prior to the application and a further 2 years in the 4 year period before that,
equalling 3 years in total, on foot of a permission granted by the immigration authorities of the United Kingdom,
which period was granted other than for a period of :
 enabling you to engage in a course of education of study; or
 having a claim to be recognised as a refugee within the meaning of the 1951 Geneva Convention relating to the
status of refugees and the 1967 protocol relating to the status of refugees determined by the UK authorities.'

From: http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/form8-ve ... jan-18.pdf

[zvz]

I think I am going to write back informing them of my legal right under EU law, and inform them that I have applied for my residence card.

Do the former for now but not the latter yet. Telling that you applied for a residence card will open path for suspicion that you are going to divorse your Irish spouse. Why otherwise would you need the card? Being the spouse of a qualified person is enough for your legal status in NI. Just explain this with references to the corresponding EU and UK legislation as you did above. This should suffice.

[Samj008]

Thank you chaoclive and sorry for the delay in coming back,

They have seen my documented right to be in the country up to the application for a full ten years prior. My concern was with their request that I prove I am currently legal.

Cheers again all.