EU children with PR but expired EU passport travelling outside EU, can they come back to UK?

[Ken1234]

Hello, my children have been recently granted PR and the youngest who was not yet 5 received Registration Certificate.

They have dual citizenship, and we usually travel outside EU with their non-EU passport and come back with their EU passport.
However, I just realised their EU passports have all expired.

Are the PR cards (and the Registration Certificate card for the little one) enough to be allowed back to the UK and travel in France WITHOUT valid EU passports? (Again, they DO have valid non-EU passports.)

Please note they do not need a visa within EU if they travel with EU parent (me). My passport is still valid.

They were born here, always lived here and going to school here (London).

I appreciate your advice, as renewing their passport is a very long process.

[Richard W]

Would holders of their non-EU nationality normally need a visa to visit the UK? For example, if they were American citizens, a US passport would get them to the EU border or an EU port, and then your passport plus birth certificates would get them into the EU, including the UK.

[Ken1234]

Thank you for taking your time answering it is very important to me as I can not book tickets unless I know they are allowed to come back for sure.

Yes, I should have said the country of their other citizenship do need a visa to enter the UK.

So it is clear that I can travel to France with them as they are my children, and do not require a visa when travelling with their EU parent within the Schengen countries. And France is a member of the Schengen agreement.

However, the UK is not, even though they are part of the EU. EU countries and Schengen countries are not the same!
So can they enter the UK with their valid non-EU passport that would require a visa? Would their PR serve as a visa? My concern is that the front page of their blue PR paper states: UK Residence Documentation for a National of an EEA State. So would they also need a valid EU passport to prove they are EU citizens?

They do not have EU identity card, but they have EU birth certificate...

I don`t know if I am just over-complicating things, but I need to be sure.

Also please note, that my youngest child only received e Registration Certificate because she was not 5 years old at the time of application.

Hope someone can help or point to the right direction to get an answer.

[Richard W]

However, the UK is not, even though they are part of the EU. EU countries and Schengen countries are not the same!

So can they enter the UK with their valid non-EU passport that would require a visa? Would their PR serve as a visa? My concern is that the front page of their blue PR paper states: UK Residence Documentation for a National of an EEA State. So would they also need a valid EU passport to prove they are EU citizens?

They do not have EU identity card, but they have EU birth certificate...

Well, if they can get into France, they can then proceed to the UK by train, or by ferry from the French ports with transposed British border control. As your children under the age of 21, they have a right of entry into the UK, regardless of whether they are EU citizens. Flying from France to the UK seems difficult.

The problem is that a DCPR or a residence certificate seem to provide no right of entry; that flows from an EU passport or national ID card. It's not clear to me how you would directly get to France from outside the EU.

[Ken1234]

Thank you for your answer.

To start with answering the question you asked at the end of your reply:

The way to enter France or any other EU country from a non-EU country is not a problem as they are my children they can travel WITH ME within Schengen countries.

My husband (who needs a visa to Schengen countries) often takes one of the children with him to travel visa-free. Even though husband has PR to the UK it does not mean he can travel in EU, as UK is NOT part of the Schengen agreement, so this is our problem here.

BTW we would go to France coming back from Algeria with a ferry, but again I do not think there is or there should be a difference between travelling by ferry / train or plane (?).

You wrote:

As your children under the age of 21, they have a right of entry into the UK, regardless of whether they are EU citizens.

I do not think it is correct as sometimes children even babies are not allowed back to the UK despite living here (happened to friends and I hear that a lot.)

So my main question remains: in order to enter the UK do children need a valid EU passport to prove their EU citizenship if they have 'UK Residence documentation for a National of an EEA State` namely PR and Registration Certificate?

They do normally live in the UK.

Sadly I did not yet request national photo ID card for them. They do have, however, EU birth certificate.

Thank you.

[Richard W]

BTW we would go to France coming back from Algeria with a ferry, but again I do not think there is or there should be a difference between travelling by ferry / train or plane (?).

Well, there is. Additionally, I believe it depends on where the ferry sails from. The **** at Brittany Ferries won't announce what visas *they* require for travel from Roscoff to Plymouth (their statement only makes sense if they don't accept non-British Article 10 residence cards), but if one travels by ferry from Calais or Dunkirk one deals directly with a British immigration Officer, and so can claim one's entry rights under the freedom of movement directive. Most, but not all, airlines demand a visa-exempt passport, a visa, or a residence card.

You wrote:

As your children under the age of 21, they have a right of entry into the UK, regardless of whether they are EU citizens.

I do not think it is correct as sometimes children even babies are not allowed back to the UK despite living here (happened to friends and I hear that a lot.)

Living here is not the point. The point is that they are children under 21 of an EEA national they they are travelling with. Birth certificates naming the parents will be required.

Now, a baby of an Indian family here on a Tier 2 visa would not have a right to return without a visa. The difference is one of the privileges of EU citizenship.

Please tell me more about minor children of EEA nationals not be allowed to return with their EEA parent. It's not a problem we see reported here.

So my main question remains: in order to enter the UK do children need a valid EU passport to prove their EU citizenship if they have 'UK Residence documentation for a National of an EEA State` namely PR and Registration Certificate?

The TIMATIC requirements for a visa national travelling to the UK are:

Visa required.
Visa Exemptions:

Passengers with a biometric residence permit issued by the United Kingdom if:
- the last permission (leave) to enter or remain in the United Kingdom was given for a period of more than six months ; or
- the last permission reads: "Given leave to enter to complete previous leave Section 3(3)(b)" ; or
- passenger is a permanent resident of the United Kingdom returning within two years ; or
- passenger has a passport with a Certificate of Entitlement to the Right of Abode issued by the United Kingdom.

Passengers with an EEA Family Residence Card issued by the United Kingdom.

Passengers with an EEA Family Permit issued by the United Kingdom if the holder is traveling with, or to join the EEA or Swiss national.
Warning:

Passengers with an "Entry Clearance" that has the observation "Indefinite leave to enter the UK":
- must use it for the first time within the validity dates, following entries are allowed after the expiration date; and
- must return within two years of last departure.

I wouldn't expect an airline to accept a DCPR as evidence of EU nationality. The information says nothing about residence certificates. Now, it might work with an Immigration Officer, but Britain's borders are mostly protected by airlines and shipping lines. Ireland, Calais, Dunkirk and Eurostar are the vulnerable points by which someone can enter the UK purely on the basis of their rights.