EEA (PR) for dependent parent: Proof of dependency

[NikiGio]

Dear All - I'm after advice on proof of dependency for a EEA (Permanent Residency) application for a dependent parent.

Apologies for the long post.

My brother and I (EEU nationals) have both acquired PR cards as workers - his qualifying period was 2013-2018, my qualifying period was 2010-2015.

Our mother (in her 70s, EEU national, no income, no comprehensive sickness insurance, living off her savings and financial support from me and my brother) arrived in the UK in 2012.

My mother lived with me during 2012-2017, and in 2018 has moved in with my brother.

We are going to send in her paper PR application as dependant of an EEA national - given we think she's not eligible to acquire PR through the self-sufficiency route as she has no comprehensive sickness insurance.

We know she could also wait for the Settled Status route to come in in 2019, which would presumably be an easier application as she'd only need to prove residency rather than residency + relationship + dependency.

If we go ahead now with the EEA (PR) application as a dependent:

To prove dependency, we have her current account bank statements (originals) showing money transfers both from me and my brother.

To prove residency, we have her credit card statements (originals) - I am trying to get council to send past council tax bills with her and my name on them to strengthen the residency proof for when she lived with me during her qualifying years of 2012-2017, but it's proving impossible as they were issued only in my name originally.

To prove relationship, we have my translated birth certificate and my brother's translated birth certificate.

My questions are:

1) Is it best to send my mum's PR application with my brother as her sponsor, as she's now living with him - or is it best to send my mum's PR application with me as her sponsor, as she was living with me during her 2012-2017 qualifying period;

2) Regardless of who her sponsor is, do we send both our PR cards to support her application - as she was basically dependent on both of us?;

3) Are her bank statements showing money transfers from me and my brother enough to prove "dependency or household membership"?;

4) Are her credit card statements enough to prove "residency" during the qualifying period? She has no utility bills, council tax bills, or NHS letters.

Thank you in advance!

[obormot]

You can apply for her as either "dependent parent" (direct family member, you have to show financial dependency) or "household member" (family member, you have to show she lives with you). You do not need to show both.
Page 16 of guidance
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... tes-v3.pdf
says:
*****
Section 13: Dependent family member (child or grandchild aged 21 or over, parent, grandparent)
Evidence of your/the family member’s financial dependency, such as one of the following:
• money transfer receipts from the sponsor to you/the family member
• bank statements showing receipt of money from the sponsor
• sponsor’s bank statements or other evidence of their financial resources
• evidence of living in the same household as the sponsor, if relevant – such as a tenancy agreement naming you/the family member and the sponsor, utility bills with your/the family member’s name on, etc
*****
(Notice "one" in "one of the following")
If she lived with you for 5 years (and you exercised treaty rights or had PR during those 5 years), then the easiest way would be applying based on those 5 years, with you as sponsor.
You will have to mention in the application money she received from you and from your brother (there is a question about “whether they receive support from someone else”).
Credit card statements are listed as “category A evidence” (see p.8 of the guidance) – and it must have address on them, right? Also, if she has bank account, it should show her address (and money transfers).
If this address is the same as your address, then sending one bank or credit card statement per ah 21 months should prove that she lived with you. (and you also send some of your utility bills/bank statements etc. showing our address as same as her– also one per year)

[NikiGio]

Hi Obormot - that's a really good answer, thanks. I'll read in detail and come back to you.

[Ikonkar]

Hi NIkigo & Obormot firstly apologise for intervening your post. I have basically the same question to which I hope obormot can help. I'm a non eu national with PR card and my parents came here on tourist visas and were granted registration document (EEA2) back in April 2014 which is valid for 5 years but they entered in sep 2013 on a tourist visa and since then dependent upon us ( me and my eu wife). can you please advise when are they actually eligible to apply for PR. some say they are family member and that me and my wife has been married since 2011 so they become direct family members, some say April 2019 after 5 years and some say from the point of they became dependant..(i.e. Sep 2013).

Please advise.

Thanks

[obormot]

I would say from the day they entered UK, no ?
My mother entered UK 16/07/2013, we applied for EEA2 next day (17/07/2013), and got it for her on 14/01/2014. But I count 5 years from 16/07/2013.
And now (2 weeks ago) we submitted applications for PR fir her and us (all family exept her is EU, she is not) together. Will see..

[Ikonkar]

Thanks pal.
In my case, I'm non EU (PR holder), my wife & son EEA national. I have proof that my parents dependency started from Sep 2013 (entered into UK), Registration cards issued April 2014.
So I'm going to apply very shortly to see. we have bank statements for each and every year.

[NikiGio]

You can apply for her as either "dependent parent" (direct family member, you have to show financial dependency) or "household member" (family member, you have to show she lives with you). You do not need to show both.
Page 16 of guidance
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... tes-v3.pdf
says:
*****
Section 13: Dependent family member (child or grandchild aged 21 or over, parent, grandparent)
Evidence of your/the family member’s financial dependency, such as one of the following:
• money transfer receipts from the sponsor to you/the family member
• bank statements showing receipt of money from the sponsor
• sponsor’s bank statements or other evidence of their financial resources
• evidence of living in the same household as the sponsor, if relevant – such as a tenancy agreement naming you/the family member and the sponsor, utility bills with your/the family member’s name on, etc
*****
(Notice "one" in "one of the following")
If she lived with you for 5 years (and you exercised treaty rights or had PR during those 5 years), then the easiest way would be applying based on those 5 years, with you as sponsor.
You will have to mention in the application money she received from you and from your brother (there is a question about “whether they receive support from someone else”).
Credit card statements are listed as “category A evidence” (see p.8 of the guidance) – and it must have address on them, right? Also, if she has bank account, it should show her address (and money transfers).
If this address is the same as your address, then sending one bank or credit card statement per ah 21 months should prove that she lived with you. (and you also send some of your utility bills/bank statements etc. showing our address as same as her– also one per year)

Obormot - thanks again for this.

So we're looking to send the following for my Mum's EEA (PR) application:
- Covering letter
- EEA (PR) application - Paper form
- My national ID card
- Mum's national ID card
- Birth certificate - Me
- Birth certificate translation
- Mum's credit card statements x 6 (one per year, 2012 to 2017 inc.) - to prove household membership during her 5-year qualifying period (I understand we don't need to provide evidence to demonstrate household membership after 2017, given that two years haven't yet passed since the end of her qualifying period in January 2017)
- My bills x 6 (one per year, 2012 to 2017 inc.) - to prove same household
- Passport photos x 2 - Mum
- Passport photo x 1 - Me
- My EEA (PR) card.

My new questions:
1) Obviously you can't give legal advice as I presume you're not an immigration lawyer (or are you?!), but does it look like to you that there's anything glaringly wrong or missing?
2) Would it be advisable to also include my bank statements (one per year) to show I pay for house + bills? Can these be printouts of pdf online bank statements, or do they need to be paper originals sent by the bank? I haven't been able to find paper originals in my document archives, so I think I would only have access to online bank statements.

[obormot]

I am a university person, not a lawer. But I had to deal with immigration for me and family in several diferent countries over many years...
1.
- If you do not send any dependency proof, I would try to "beef up" evidence that you lived in the same household - probably send 2 documents per year, and from more then one source (I am not sure it is important, but it makes the case more solid). What about her bank statements? Her NHS letters? Your tenancy or morgage showing you had the place?
- If you have any evidence of you sending her money in that period, I would add it
- When you fill the form online there is space to explain how she is dependant (and then you use cover letter too)
- translation has to be "official" (this is a bit of a grey area, I used to do it myself, but this time I paid for registered translator to sign, ust in case)

2. Important:
HO asks for "originals" - if you get tbank statements online, you print them and get them stamped (!) by your bank.

[NikiGio]

Hi Obormot

Realised I hadn't answered that last message - thanks for that.

So revised list of documents we're sending for my Mum's EEA (PR) application as my dependant:
- Covering letter
- EEA (PR) application - Paper form
- My national ID card 
- Mum's national ID card 
- Birth certificate - Me
- Birth certificate translation - by a certified translator
- Mum's current account bank statements x 12 (two per year, 2012 to 2017 inc.) - showing money received from me and my brother, to prove dependency during her 5-year QP
- Mum's credit card statements x 12 (two per year, 2012 to 2017 inc.) - to prove household membership during her 5-year QP
- My bank statements x 6 - to show I pay for house + bills
- My bills x 6 (one per year, 2012 to 2017 inc.) - to prove same household
- Council tax bills in both our names x 6 (one per year, 2012 to 2017 inc.) - after requesting these, the Council finally sent me last week copies of annual council tax bills in both our names. These are all dated October '18, which is the date they re-printed them, but they are historical bills
- Passport photos x 2 - Mum 
- Passport photo x 1 - Me 
- My EEA (PR) card + letter.

I've beefed up as you suggested, and includes Mum's current account statements to show dependency.

Did I see on another post that your application for PR for your dependent parent has been succesful? Would you mind sharing what supporting documentation you sent?

Thanks

[obormot]

Yes, we’ve got the PR residency card for my mother approved (6 weeks time - we applied in early september, and her biometric card arrived on October 18).

My mother is over 70, lives with us, and does not work (never did in UK). We live in the same place from september 2013, I work in the same place from summer 2013.
I have a joint bank account with her, from september 2013, where I put some money from time to time (irregularly, but making sure there is always at least several hundred pounds - sometimes I would not add any funds there fore more then a year).
It was a joint application for 2 people - her and me.
I submitted only five p60 for me, as proof of both residence and exercising treaty rights.
For her I sent my birth certificate (with translation) and bank statements from our joint account showing both our names and our address (which is the same as on my P60 I submitted for myself) - 2 per year, total 11.
I also sent a few other documents (mentioning the same address) - all I found:
- one electricity bill on the name of her and my partner, dated october 2014 (after that we stopped getting bills by post),
- her provisional UK driving license from 2015 (she was not able to pass theory test as her english is not good enough, so she gave up on it),
- certificate of 1 year attending English course in a local college dated summer 2016
- a few NHS letters for her talking about regular visits due to chronic condition (high blood pressure)
- one letter on the names of my partner and me, from the bank where we had our mortgage, mentioning our address, and saying we paid it off (dated sometime in 2016)

I think it is all... I also wrote a little note saying that she lives with us, and that she uses money I supply to our joint account, and listing all documents submitted.
My plan was to mostly argue that she is the member of our household.

[NikiGio]

That's great - congrats on getting the PRs, 6 weeks seems pretty good for that type of application.

In another forum I'm part of they always recommend getting a lawyer involved when doing dependent parent applications as they say they're tricky, but clearly at least for your Mum and you that wasn't the case.

Last query - did you highlight the single transactions in the bank statements, or just included the statements and explained that you make occasional transfers?

[obormot]

No I did not highlight anything - I just said in a supporting note something like - "one can see that we have joint account, and by the way all money going in there were coming from me"
Again, I was framing all this as "my mother is the member of our household, she lives with us and we pay all her expences", not as "my mother is finantially depenent on me, here is the evidence that I transfer her money"

[NikiGio]

Fantastic, thanks