Unjusticely Banned for 5 years .. please help!!

[Billrocks]

I was in UK for like 2 years. I was doing my Master's degree.
My student visa was due to expired on 31st Jan 2008. I didn't manage to get my final transcript until 4th FEb 2008. I send an IGS visa application to UK Home Office on 7th Feb 2008. Evetually the application was refused stating I didn't have a valid visa at time of making the application. As my visa expired on 31-jan-2008. I was asked to leave. I left voluntarily, paying my own expense not at the Secretary of state on 28th March. My passport & other documents weren't returned until 28th March 2008.

I came back to Pakistan. I applied for an IGS visa and got a refusal decision again due to overstay in UK last time around. I told them in my application that I was in UK whilst the Home OFfice were reviewing my application case. The denied me visa and failed to notice that I left on my own expense not funds from government. They wrote that my future application will be refused for the next five years.

They even failed to consider my application under "17 March Concession". AS I left UK at my own expense.

Please help. I applied for an appeal. Its been four months by now.

[Frontier Mole]

If you have appealed it will take 6 - 9 months to get to court. There is not much you can do about it other than wait. If your case is strong you will win the appeal and the 5 year ban will no longer apply. If you lose, which you will because you did not apply in time for the visa extension- the 5 year ban is not an appealable matter in its own right. You will be stuck with it.

I agree with you, based on the facts that you state, that you should not have been subject to a 5 year ban. However if you were served UKBA paperwork (IS151D) on leaving there is a good chance it will show you as "removed" which incidentally does not have to be at taxpayers expense. That is why the ECO has put the 5 year ban on you.

I guess you picked up your passport at the airport after you had checked in using the paperwork they gave you? If that was the case you were "removed" and the 5 year ban will prevail.

[Mr Rusty]

When the Home Office refused your IGS application, were you served with any notices informing you that you were an overstayer, or removal directions (IS151A + IS151B)? If not, you were not "removed" from the UK, and should not be subject to the automatic ban, which in your case was not in effect because of the temporary concession.

Did you apply for a reconsideration of your case to the Entry Clearance Manager at the Visa office which refused you?

If not, this is part of the appeal process, as the AIT will refer the case back to the ECM and ask him if he supports the original decision. You could try writing to/emailing the ECM and asking if the case has been submitted to him for reconsideration. You could then take the opportunity to point out that the ban is unjustified for the reasons I set out above (if they apply). Concerning the visa refusal, if the overstay is the only reason for refusal, you can point out that refusal is disproportionate to the offence and unfair, as you mistakenly extended your stay by only a short period to get your results, and left voluntarily within x days of receiving the rejection letter - or did you hang on and appeal? If so, your grounds for appealing now are less compelling.

If all else fails, you'll just have to wait for your appeal, which could take several more months.

[Billrocks]

I was issued with IS151A. The IS151A clearly states my flight details. I also send the payslip for the expense of air ticket and payment has been made by my debit card.

i appreciate your advice. I believe one can overstay less than 28 days.
if my application would have returned earlier.. I would have made my return.
I wasn't hiding to overstay there.

I got my appeal hearing in front of AIT in Jan 2009.

[Mr Rusty]

I was issued with IS151A. The IS151A clearly states my flight details. I also send the payslip for the expense of air ticket and payment has been made by my debit card.

i appreciate your advice. I believe one can overstay less than 28 days.
if my application would have returned earlier.. I would have made my return.
I wasn't hiding to overstay there.

I got my appeal hearing in front of AIT in Jan 2009.

Ah, interesting. This rather supports my posts in a previous thread pointing out an area of uncertainty about removals/bans because the former Immigration Minister said it was quite possible for someone who has been served with removal directions to make a voluntary departure, which is what you appear to have done. Some of the Great and the Good of this forum told me I was mistaken.

It would be most enlightening if you would post the result of your appeal, and if possible as much detail of the Immigration Judge's comments as you feel able. I think you're not the only one who may wish to challenge an ECO's perception that they were "removed".

In the meantime you can't really do much but sit and wait for your appeal. Good luck.

[Billrocks]

Thanks for the advice, but do i hold any chance of success with the oral hearing.
I have the payslip & documents to prove that i removed myself on my own expense. I overstayed in UK whilst the Home office were reviewing my case.
Wat r the chances??

[Frontier Mole]

I think there is a IS151D on file that you do not know about. I have seen this a number of times in the past.

Did you pick up your passport at the airport after you checked in?

[Billrocks]

IS151d is for criminal convictions & deportation.

when i wasn't served with IS151d and how can it be on my file. I was served with IS151A. The IS151A clearly states my flight details.

Yes, I given my passport at the airport before the passport was with the IOM.

[Frontier Mole]

IS151D is not for deport! A deport order is for deport, I should know I make them stick at court!

Self check-in cases:
serve IS151D
fax a copy of RDs to the Operational Support and Certification Unit (OSCU)
in all priority cases;
if subject makes a human rights claim refer to chapter 21.
if subject makes a facial discrimination claim refer to chapter 21.
serve IS96 check-in on the subject;
advise the subject to report to the immigration office at the port of departure at least two hours
before the flight and to embark at least one hour before the flight;
fax IS152b to the airline;
follow procedures for removals via a second port if appropriate (see 49);
ensure the passport or EU travel letter is available for collection at the port of departure if
necessary.
If a self check-in IS96 is to be used, it should be noted on both the IS96 and the IS107B where
the ticket is to be collected from. It should also be noted that the Home Office has no
responsibility for arranging or paying for excess baggage and this should be pointed out to the
subject at the time they are sent the IS96.

[Mr Rusty]

"The IS151A clearly states my flight details. "

I'd be surprised if it does.

IS151A is headed - "Notice to a person liable to removal", and the text (abbreviated) is as follows:
"To: (name)
I have considered all the information available to me and I am satisfied that you are either:
A) A person in respect of whom removal directions may be given in accordance with paras (etc. etc)
i. An illegal entrant as defined....etc
ii. a family member of such a person

B) a person in respect of whom removal directions may be given in accordance with section 10 of the Immigration & Asylum Act 1999 (administrative removal) as:
i) a person who has failed to observe a condition of leave to enter or remain, or remains beyond the time limited by the leave
(then further categories ii - iv) "

There follow a box headed "Specific Statement of Reasons", and a paragraph headed "Liability to detention"

That's the form served daily by enforcement officers on immigration offenders There's no provision on it for the service of removal directions. If caseworkers are issuing a variant of that (which I doubt) I would be most interested if you could scan and post it here. Otherwise Frontier Mole is right, and you were served with a 151D or similar, as well as 151a.

They appear to have dealt with you as an offender under B i) on the form. You were an overstayer by a mere 7 days when you applied for IGS, and appear to have left promptly when this was refused. To me there seem to be 2 issues which can be raised at appeal:-
1) Is the 5-year ban appropriate to your case, because a) you left within the concession period and b) you could be said to have left voluntarily and not removed.
2) Is an overstay of 7 days sufficient to justify refusal of an application which otherwise meets the requirements. (No doubt the argument will be that as you were already an overstayer when you applied, your overstay period was nearly 2 months).

As I've said before, there is uncertainty over who is "removed" or who "departs voluntarily", and although the Minister said a voluntary departure can still be made by someone who has been served with removal directions, and "only those who are actually removed or deported will be subject a 10-year ban", it seems that ECOs feel obliged to impose the 5-year ban on people like yourself.

[Billrocks]

The IS151A clearly states my flight details like the person is leaving on certain flight and got to report on the airport on certain time. He needs to be given his passport with other documents.
The IS151A does mention i got my visa refused i am liable to be removed.

[Frontier Mole]

You have got an IS151D "served" on you as that is the only form that states the flight etc etc. Wither you were given the IS151D is another matter.

[Wanderer]

You have got an IS151D "served" on you as that is the only form that states the flight etc etc. Wither you were given the IS151D is another matter.

0wn3d!

[Billrocks]

I was served with IS151A. the IS151A is written on the paper.

How can the people issue me an IS151A and keep a IS151D file on my file in Home 0ffice. Why would they do this thing.

When i left at own expense..why would they claim that i left on funds from Secretary of State and was deported.

strange

[kkay]

hi
one of my friend is overstayed from last 10 month .he came on visitor visa and want to go back but his friend advice him if you will go then you will never come back.

actually he want to study here on student visa,what will happen if he will leave the country on his expense???
is he will banned?
will take his finger print ??
his passport is also expired ,what will happen??
he post his passport to india.
can he come back on student visa on new passport???
what will happen please somebody help asap.
thank you
kkay

[Mr Rusty]

hi
one of my friend is overstayed from last 10 month .he came on visitor visa and want to go back but his friend advice him if you will go then you will never come back.

actually he want to study here on student visa,what will happen if he will leave the country on his expense???
is he will banned?
will take his finger print ??
his passport is also expired ,what will happen??
he post his passport to india.
can he come back on student visa on new passport???
what will happen please somebody help asap.
thank you
kkay

Your friend has put himself in an impossible position. He has no realistic hope of being allowed to stay here legally.
If he's caught here, he will eventually be removed because if he had a visa before, his passport details can be used to apply for another one. He will be fingerprinted and no sensible employer will give him a job. Then he'll be banned from applying for 10 years.
If he gets a passport from the Indian High Commission and leaves the UK voluntarily at his own expense he will be banned for 5 years.

So there you are. Deal or No Deal?

[Billrocks]

Please advice how should i go convincing the AIT about my leave.
I don't want to be banned.