URGENT help needed re: Skilled Worker visa application

[Canary1007]

My partner is a dental hygienist who is applying for her UK visa currently. She has her biometrics appointment later today, at 1730 GMT and will not be able to cancel her application and receive a refund after that.

She only received a copy of the CoS from her dentist employer this evening, and we have identified some mistakes. The question is whether they are too serious or too many to address in a 500 character sponsor note, given there are also other details that must be included in the note. Due to the character limit, you will see that all the notes are necessarily very brief.

Ultimately, should we cancel the visa application, get a refund, have employer withdraw CoS and reissue correctly, for a loss of £200? Or are the suggested notes sufficient to move ahead and risk losing $1500 on a rejected visa application?

Definite / possible mistakes

1. The gross salary given on the CoS is wrong and was given as 54,285.

However this was for a previous iteration of the contract (which assumed more hours), and the figure should be 36,540.

The proposed note addressing this: "Gross salary given is incorrect. Correct salary is 36,540 (60,900 pro rata for 37.5hr week)."

2. The job code and pay band selected on the CoS is "3218 Medical and dental technicians - Band 8b & equivalent". The code is right, but the NHS pay band, if it was manually selected, may be wrong.

The code is right but the NHS pay band seems high, as hygienists with the NHS are usually band 5-7. We are still waiting for a response on whether the employer selected NHS band 8b or whether that was automatic. We think they may have gone for 8b because it matches the pro rata salary she will be paid, but we think they should have selected a band corresponding to NHS hygienists' expected pay, as the purpose is to establish the going rate.

The proposed note addressing this: "Pay band 8b selected for pro rata pay. Hygienists are usually band 5-7"

3. For "job on a client contract", the sponsor selected "Yes", and wrote "Hygienist to work within the practice as a self-employed contractor paid 35 per hour for treatment delivered.

We worry that being a self employed hygienist does not qualify as a "job on a client contract", even if the dental practice kind of qualifies as both the client and the sponsor and the role and the visa depends entirely on that contract.

The proposed note addressing this: "For “job on a client contract”, we refer to her self-employment, working only for us, her sponsor"


Other essential notes to add to the CoS

4. She is applying for a Health and Care Worker Visa, so this must be explained in a note and both her and the employer's eligibility must be established.

The proposed note addressing this: "Applicant is GDC registered hygienist so eligible for Health and Care Worker Visa. We are eligible as we provide services to the NHS (reg. xxxxxxxxx)"

5. Because she will be self-employed, apparently key contract details should ideally be outlined in a note. The employer's comment in the PAYE section explains that there is a contract but not much more.

Our intention is that, due to limited space, my partner will submit the job offer and signed contract with her visa application and simply reference this in the sponsor note, as follows: "Contract to be included with visa application. Worker will pay taxes by Self Assessment"

As stated above, the key question in all of this is: How serious are these errors (if indeed they are all errors), and can they be adequately addressed alongside other necessary information in a very short sponsor note? Or should we cut our losses and ask the sponsor for a new CoS?

Endless and undying thanks if someone can find the time to read all of this and answer within the next 10 hours. We are really struggling with this choice at the moment.

[Canary1007]

Mods - please note, I know there is some duplication here with my previous post. I apologise - I have just realised that post was probably too long to get an answer, so I want to try to break it into more digestible chunks and try again, as the situation is urgent.

Please delete my original post if necessary. Thank you.

I have a question regarding a possible error on a CoS. The applicant is a dental hygienist who will be working exclusively for one practice, which is her sponsor.

On the CoS, for "job on a client contract", the sponsor selected "Yes", and wrote "Hygienist to work within the practice as a self-employed contractor paid 35 per hour for treatment delivered."

We worry that being a self employed hygienist does not qualify as a "job on a client contract", even if the dental practice arguably qualifies as both the client (as she will be self employed) and the sponsor, and the role / the visa depends entirely on that contract.

Due to limited characters on the sponsor note, where other notes are also required, the proposed note addressing this is as follows: "For “job on a client contract”, we refer to her self-employment, working only for us, her sponsor"

Does this make sense, and is the issue adequately addressed by the note?

[Canary1007]

Thank you for responding to my message mods. I wonder whether posting my second message directly under my first is the best way to attract responses, however?

This way it is just a repeat of a message immediately above. I would be happy if just one or the other was left. I have copies of both if I need to rewrite for any replies.

Which do you think is more likely to attract a quick response? I would be happy for that one to be left.

[ywlgy]

Not sure if she has attended the appointment already. She could have cancelled the biometric appointment and booked a later date to buy her some time. And in case of refusal, you lose the application fee only, nowhere close to $1500.
I will let others to comment on your other questions.

[manci]

1. The gross salary given on the CoS is wrong and was given as 54,285.

However this was for a previous iteration of the contract (which assumed more hours), and the figure should be 36,540.

The proposed note addressing this: "Gross salary given is incorrect. Correct salary is 36,540 (60,900 pro rata for 37.5hr week)."

2. The job code and pay band selected on the CoS is "3218 Medical and dental technicians - Band 8b & equivalent". The code is right, but the NHS pay band, if it was manually selected, may be wrong.

As the pay is wrong in the CoS this must be corrected. The annual pay should be given as £36,540 and the working hours as 37.5 per week. I am not sure if the NHS pay band is automatically generated but if not it should be Band 6 (going rate £31,365 p.a for a 37.5 hour week)

3. For "job on a client contract", the sponsor selected "Yes", and wrote "Hygienist to work within the practice as a self-employed contractor paid 35 per hour for treatment delivered.

We worry that being a self employed hygienist does not qualify as a "job on a client contract", even if the dental practice kind of qualifies as both the client and the sponsor and the role and the visa depends entirely on that contract.

The proposed note addressing this: "For “job on a client contract”, we refer to her self-employment, working only for us, her sponsor"

Her pay will be far less than £35/hour - this should be corrected.

Although the answer to the question about whether the job is on a client contract should be NO, the proposed sponsor note explains the situation.

4. She is applying for a Health and Care Worker Visa, so this must be explained in a note and both her and the employer's eligibility must be established.

correct
see the guidance:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... applicants

Employer requirements

5. The employer will be required to include a brief explanation in the Certificate of Sponsorship setting out how the employee meets the Health and Care Visa eligibility requirement set out in paragraphs 2 and 3. The employer will also be responsible for informing the applicant they are eligible for the Health and Care Visa so the applicant can correctly complete the visa application form. Where an employer is an organisation that provides services commissioned by the NHS, evidence of the contract arrangements with the NHS may need to be provided to UK Visas and Immigration

5. Because she will be self-employed, apparently key contract details should ideally be outlined in a note. The employer's comment in the PAYE section explains that there is a contract but not much more.

Our intention is that, due to limited space, my partner will submit the job offer and signed contract with her visa application and simply reference this in the sponsor note, as follows: "Contract to be included with visa application. Worker will pay taxes by Self Assessment"

refer to the guidance for sponsors:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... guidanceS3

S1.29. If the worker is self-employed, there must be a genuine contract for employment or services between you and the worker. This contract must show:

the names and signatures of all involved (which must include you and the worker)
the start and end dates of the contract
details of the job, or piece of work, the worker has been contracted to do
how much the worker will be paid

the pay and hours in the employment contract should match what is in the CoS.

NOTE
As your partner attended biometrics today the amendments to the CoS should be made asap

[Canary1007]

Thank you very much manci for taking the time to engage with my post - it really is hugely appreciated. You have answered many of my questions. I have responded to your comments, but points 1 and 2 of my original message are where I still have significant questions, and I realise I didn't provide full information or ask my questions clearly. So I have attempted to rectify that and explain the situation more clearly.

Throughout I have bolded all key comments and questions.

Currently the CoS has the following:
- Gross Salary: 54,285 (incorrect)
- Hours per week: 22.5 (correct)
- Hourly pay mentioned in "job on a client contract" blurb as £35 per hour (correct)
- SOC code 3218 Medical and dental technicians (correct) - Band 8b & equivalent (probably incorrect)

The terms of her actual contract are as follows:
- 22.5 hours per week
- £35 per hour
- minimum of 46.4 weeks (52 minus 4 weeks max. unpaid leave minus 8 bank holidays).

This means gross salary should be 22.5 x 35 x 46.4 = 36,540, and we have used the sponsor note to correct this - the sponsor note is fully quoted at the bottom of this message. Based on this hourly pay and number of weeks, and a full, 37.5 hour NHS working week, her pro-rated annual salary would be 37.5 x 35 x 46.4 = 60,900

On the CoS, the sponsor selected SOC code 3218 - band 8b, which starts at £53,168, which was based on the original gross salary figure of 54,285. If the band was selected for the annual pro rata salary, this would still work. However, I do not believe this is right. I think UKVI either wants the band her gross salary (36,540) falls in, which would be band 6, or they want the band that NHS hygienists usually fall into, which would be band 5 or 6 at entry level, in order to determine the going rate and whether she exceeds that.

In general it is difficult to know how they determine going rates for healthcare jobs that might fall into different pay bands, even though I don't think we should have a problem based on her gross salary.

An oddity is that the sponsor, being a private dentist (albeit they also have an NHS contract), pays private rates so I don't know how familiar they are with NHS pay bands. But if I am right that part time workers' gross salary must exceed their job's "going rate" (based on full time work), then it is just as well they pay private rates!

Whichever approach UKVI wants, it seems band 8b is both incorrect for hygienists in general and also does not correspond to her gross pay, and I worry this would give us a problem.

Can you confirm whether the band to select is the band her gross salary falls in (or falls just above), which would be band 6, or whether they want an indication of the typical pay band for hygienists, which would be band 5 or 6?

If this needs to be changed by a note, is this acceptable? Given there is also a gross salary error, as well as other information to add by note, is it too much to add so many necessarily brief notes to one CoS, or is this OK, provided the notes are clear?

Although the answer to the question about whether the job is on a client contract should be NO, the proposed sponsor note explains the situation.

Thank you for this - I hope this will also make sense to them.

Employer requirements

5. The employer will be required to include a brief explanation ... evidence of the contract arrangements with the NHS may need to be provided to UK Visas and Immigration

Indeed, I have read that document and that section. Hence our note (quoted at the bottom) intends to establish both the sponsor's eligibility (with the NHS contract no.) and hers (being a GDC registered dental hygienist). I know she meets other criteria too, such as that she will be performing Schedule 1 regulated activities (Health and Social Care Act 2008) for an employer registered with the CQC, but that takes more words, and I believe it is unnecessary to state all the different ways she qualifies, and we have very few characters to play with!

I think I am correct that her employer providing services to NHS, her being GDC registered, and her performing a job in an eligible occupation code establishes eligibility for the Health and Care Worker Visa?

refer to the guidance for sponsors:

S1.29. If the worker is self-employed, there must be a genuine contract ... This contract must show:

the names and signatures of all ...
the start and end dates ...
details of the job ...
how much the worker will be paid

the pay and hours in the employment contract should match what is in the CoS.

Yes, we read this and the contract meets all those requirements. Hence, we are inclined to submit her signed contract / job offer with her documents for her visa application, even though I know it is not required. Given limited space on the sponsor note and in order to offer maximum information, we think this might be helpful. Do you agree?

NOTE
As your partner attended biometrics today the amendments to the CoS should be made asap

She missed the appointment. It was booked with VFS and it was not possible to login to the her account within 24 hours of the appointment to change or cancel the appointment. We think and hope that at some point tomorrow it will become possible for her to rebook (and that she would have only one more chance after that if she missed it again).


One other thing I noticed: For "place of issue" of her passport on the CoS, they wrote "United Sates [sic] of America". Do we need to find characters in the note to correct this, or is this an obvious enough typo to ignore?


Finally, the full sponsor note currently reads as follows:

"Gross salary given incorrect. Correct salary is 36,540 (60,900 pro rata for 37.5hr week). Pay band 8b selected for pro rata pay. Hygienists usually band 5-7. Applicant is GDC registered hygienist so eligible for Health and Care Worker Visa. We are eligible as we provide services to the NHS, contract no. xxxxxxxxxx. For job on a client contract, we refer to her self-employment, working only for us, sponsor contract to be included with visa application. Worker to pay taxes by Self Assessment."

I think the portion highlighted yellow will have to be replaced by something like, "Pay band 8b was for incorrect gross salary. Correct pay band is "Band 6".

Considering just the issues discussed in these messages, would you be confident submitting this application with these mistakes addressed by this sponsor note?

Huge, huge thanks to you and to anyone who can help with this, once again.

[manci]

She missed the appointment. It was booked with VFS and it was not possible to login to the her account within 24 hours of the appointment to change or cancel the appointment. We think and hope that at some point tomorrow it will become possible for her to rebook (and that she would have only one more chance after that if she missed it again).

Suggest she waits with re-booking the VFS biometrics appointment until the issues with her CoS are resolved.

[Canary1007]

Suggest she waits with re-booking the VFS biometrics appointment until the issues with her CoS are resolved.

Thank you, yes that is the plan. Do you think you will have time in the next day or two to look at least at the first section / questions on my last message (salary and pay band issues) and offer an opinion? I would be very grateful if so. Alternatively do you know of any posters who might have answers to these kinds of questions?

I know some of the other questions are really looking for confirmation and reassurance.

[manci]

THE COS

In light of the most recent information suggest:

SOC code 3218
Total weekly hours 22.5
Pay £35 / hour
The equivalent NHS pay band 8b is correct - this is irrespective of the fact that dental hygienists in the NHS earn less than half of what she'll earn, it is just a reference to the equivalent NHS pay band. 8b is £28.01-£32.66/hour

Apart from the above, sponsor notes are needed for:

(a) self-employment - the employer should provide the required information. Optionally she can upload the signed employment contract.

(b) confirmation of the eligibility for the health and care visa (both sponsor and your partner)

(c) typo United States of America

QUESTIONS
1
As your partner will be applying for entry clearance from abroad is the CoS that has been assigned to her a defined CoS?
2
Is the sponsor who assigned the CoS the same company as the employer in the employment contract and where your partner is actually going to work, i.e. is there is no third party involved?
3
Has the sponsor ticked the maintenance box at the end of the CoS?

SUGGESTION

Before putting forward proposals for sponsor notes suggest to get in touch with the sponsor, or their immigration advisor if they have one, to discuss the issues relating to the CoS

[Canary1007]

Thank you for responding so thoroughly once again. Hopefully quick answers and some more concise questions this time.

The UKVI adviser I spoke to today also said the pay band should match the actual pay rather than estimated going rate, so that is consistent.

However, he told me repeatedly that the pay band should match the gross salary, which would mean Band 6 (31,365 - 38,890). Does your focus on hourly pay relate to the comment about NHS pay bands on the gov.uk site, "Based on a 37.5-hour week - they must be pro-rated for other working patterns, based on the weekly working hours stated by your employer"? If so, that makes sense.

...
8b is £28.01-£32.66/hour
...

Will the correct band not be 8c (£33.58 - £38.81), though, since her hourly pay is £35 (and thus we will need a note correcting that)?

Answers to your points and questions below are in black (your comments in red):

Apart from the above, sponsor notes are needed for:

(a) self-employment - the employer should provide the required information. Optionally she can upload the signed employment contract. If the info we are talking about is start/end date, hours, weeks, rate, job description, signatures, then all are on CoS bar signatures, and we will attach the contract just in case.

(b) confirmation of the eligibility for the health and care visa (both sponsor and your partner) I believe we have this covered.

(c) typo United States of America We will add a note.

Your Questions

1
As your partner will be applying for entry clearance from abroad is the CoS that has been assigned to her a defined CoS? Yes

2
Is the sponsor who assigned the CoS the same company as the employer in the employment contract and where your partner is actually going to work, i.e. is there is no third party involved? Yes and yes

3
Has the sponsor ticked the maintenance box at the end of the CoS? No, but only because she doesn't need maintenance. She will be submitting 3 or 6 months of bank statements showing funds consistently well above the threshold

SUGGESTION

Before putting forward proposals for sponsor notes suggest to get in touch with the sponsor, or their immigration advisor if they have one, to discuss the issues relating to the CoS They don't have an immigration adviser, and we have kind of offered to figure out these issues. I hope to speak to a couple of lawyers tomorrow. I also spoke to a couple of lawyers today, and one wasn't well versed in this area, while the other advised I come on here, and said the best advice available was likely to be found on this forum...!

One final question: The UKVI advisers I spoke to today suggested submitting a cover letter with the visa application, which would give us the space to offer slightly more fleshed out versions of the corrections, explanations and information in the sponsor note. We are now thinking we will do both note and cover letter. Have you heard of cover letters being used for this kind of visa and does this advice make sense to you?

[Canary1007]

Not sure if she has attended the appointment already. She could have cancelled the biometric appointment and booked a later date to buy her some time. And in case of refusal, you lose the application fee only, nowhere close to $1500.
I will let others to comment on your other questions.

Thanks ywlgy and apologies for forgetting to respond to this message. She didn't attend the appointment, and they actually sent her strange messages the evening before (sunday evening) saying she had already missed it, although it wasn't schedule till the next day. Now she can't rebook, and she probably has to cancel everything and start again with a new application.

The $1500 is the visa fee plus VFS Global's silver package fee of ~$850, and while the visa fee shouldn't be a problem, we are not even sure if VFS Global will offer a refund on the $850 silver package fee she paid - that would basically be criminal, but they offer essentially zero customer service so you can't even ask the question...

[manci]

The $1500 is the visa fee

What visa fee did she actually pay? The skilled worker visa fee is $1712 for a work period over 3 years and $856 for less than 3 years . It doesn't seem therefore that she has applied for a health and care visa for which the visa fee for a work period over 3 years would be $651 and $326 for less than 3 years.

If the above is confirmed she should vary her application by submitting a new application before attending biometrics which would replace her current application. The appropriate visa fee would have to be paid for the new application but the visa fee she already paid would be refunded in due course.

What are the work start and end dates in the CoS?

Has she paid any IHS (not charged for health and care visas)?

The UKVI adviser I spoke to today also said the pay band should match the actual pay rather than estimated going rate, so that is consistent.

Note that you haven't spoken to UKVI, this is an outsourced enquiry service which doesn't always provide correct information.

Before putting forward proposals for sponsor notes suggest to get in touch with the sponsor, or their immigration advisor if they have one, to discuss the issues relating to the CoS They don't have an immigration adviser, and we have kind of offered to figure out these issues

Sponsors are supposed to have personnel familiar with the rules, such as an Authorising Officer and a Level 1 user who manages the SMS. It doesn't bode well for a successful application if you have to tell the sponsor what to do. Under the circumstances it would be advisable to engage an immigration lawyer who would have access to all the documents which members of this forum don't.

(a) self-employment - the employer should provide the required information. Optionally she can upload the signed employment contract. If the info we are talking about is start/end date, hours, weeks, rate, job description, signatures, then all are on CoS bar signatures, and we will attach the contract just in case.

The information to be provided by the sponsor is described in para S1.29 of Part 2 of the guidance for sponsors. https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... -12-21.pdf

I am unsure if UKVI would accept self-employed status for your partner and they may refuse her application for this reason . Para S1.29 only appears in the guidance under third party contracting which, as you confirmed, is not the case here. Generally skilled workers must be in salaried employment by their sponsor and self-employments is not allowed.

Why doesn’t the sponsor employ your partner directly? She can be dismissed at any time by withdrawing sponsorship, so there is no advantage in self-employment. In your partner’s contract with the sponsor there should be a clause making the contract subject to her immigration status which means that in her case immigration law will override employment law.

One final question: The UKVI advisers I spoke to today suggested submitting a cover letter with the visa application

Cover letters are quite normal and can be uploaded with the other documents.

[Canary1007]

What visa fee did she actually pay? ... the visa fee for a work period over 3 years would be $651

My comment about $1500 was meant to convey that she paid the $650 visa fee plus the $850 for the VFS silver package (priority service etc.).

What are the work start and end dates in the CoS?
Start: 24/01/22, end: 24/01/26.

Has she paid any IHS (not charged for health and care visas)? No she hasn't and wouldn't expect to, as you indicate.

Sponsors are supposed to have personnel familiar with the rules, such as an Authorising Officer and a Level 1 user who manages the SMS. It doesn't bode well for a successful application if you have to tell the sponsor what to do. I think they are familiar with the rules and have also read everything there is to read. However, they don't necessarily have the breadth of experience to feel confident on the nuances of dealing both with a couple of errors and the other areas of doubt on the CoS. Circumstances are a little unusual. With the application momentarily at a stand still, I am just trying to help out.

The information to be provided by the sponsor is described in para S1.29 of Part 2 of the guidance for sponsors. https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... -12-21.pdf

I am unsure if UKVI would accept self-employed status for your partner and they may refuse her application for this reason . Para S1.29 only appears in the guidance under third party contracting which, as you confirmed, is not the case here. Generally skilled workers must be in salaried employment by their sponsor and self-employments is not allowed. I shared this concern previously, but it was a dentist who told us that this was possible in the first place and that he had done it several times. The following link from White Rose Visas seems to make very clear that it can be done, and even uses a dental associate as their first example case. I will re-read the guidance you mention - I didn't pick up on it relating to third party contracts.

https://www.whiterosevisas.co.uk/blog/p ... orker-visa


Why doesn’t the sponsor employ your partner directly? I can't really answer this. It just seems dentists strongly prefer this structure and didn't want to break it. You are probably right that it could have been done differently

Regarding the hourly pay, am I right in thinking that if the band should correspond to hourly pay, then with hourly pay of £35 the selection should be band 8c?

[manci]

The UKVI adviser I spoke to today ,,,,,,,

You probably rang the outsourced enquiry service for visa applicants.

There is another service for employers that deals with sponsorship related enquiriess, e.g. questions about CoSs. The phone No is 0300 123 4699 and you can ring them pretending to be an employer, they don't ask for names. The quality of the service is variable, it depends on who picks up the phone. Their email address is businesshelpdesk@homeoffice.gov.uk (they usually reply in 2-3 days).

If you have doubts about how to determine the equivalent NHS pay band suggest to contact this service.

[Canary1007]

The UKVI adviser I spoke to today ,,,,,,,

You probably rang the outsourced enquiry service for visa applicants.

There is another service for employers that deals with sponsorship related enquiriess, e.g. questions about CoSs. The phone No is 0300 123 4699 and you can ring them pretending to be an employer, they don't ask for names. The quality of the service is variable, it depends on who picks up the phone. Their email address is businesshelpdesk@homeoffice.gov.uk (they usually reply in 2-3 days).

If you have doubts about how to determine the equivalent NHS pay band suggest to contact this service.

Thank you for this and apologies for the slow response. I called the line on Thursday and they were somewhat useful. Since then I have read everything I can (again), and made some further calls. I will probably call once more tomorrow and then we'll likely go for it.

Despite being a bit complicated and having a few errors to correct, we think the note and the cover letter explain things clearly. There is no doubt around eligibility, salary is more than high enough, the job is a good and reliable job with an excellent and responsible employer, all boxes are ticked and all the relevant documentation is ready to go, so we hope this will ultimately be recognised.

I will update when we know more, and thanks again for taking the time to help.