Naturalization: EU citizen and other questions

[Cupcake22]

Hello everyone,

I am checking if I have everything to proceed with the application and I was wondering if anyone could help me clear some doubts.

- First arrival date: I first arrived in the UK many years ago (2011) to study, but then went away for some more years and eventually returned in 2018. I thought maybe I would put my first ever arrival date in UK (2011) and then explain things in a cover letter. It would be a bit weird to declare 2018 and then provide my degree (for the language requirement) that was achieved beforehand. What do you suggest?

- Evidence of being physically present in the UK for 5 yrs: I don't have stamps on my passport, so things are a bit complicated. I heard from some online sources that it would be good to provide documents from 3 different entities for every year. Can you confirm this? I can provide P60s for some years. I also downloaded my HMRC Employment History, would that work? I can also download my COVID Vaccine Record from my NHS account but I am not sure if that would cover only a day or possibly a whole month or if it would be valid at all (it's technically not a letter but a web page that I digitally printed). I heard mixed opinions about bank statements but I can include those too.

- At the end of the AN Application form there is a Supporting document section. On that page, it mentions Evidence of National Insurance Contributions. However, being employed all the time isn't a requirement. For some months, I was simply self-sufficient. Would I have to prove that too and use the HMRC Employment History to cover the rest of the period?

- Some video online suggests that if you are not employed (but self-sufficient), there might be some issue with CSI (Comprehensive Sickness Insurance) and that it is better to mention it in the cover letter. At the time, I was using the NHS for the vaccines and a few visits. What do you suggest about that?

- Residency addresses and move-in / out dates. I tried my best to get them right, but they might be slightly off from what they could gather from other sources. For example, I can't recall if I changed my address with my bank the day I started sleeping in the next place, or when I fully moved my belongings, usually a few days later. I often have a contract in both places for at least a week.

I apologise for the many questions. If you have any knowledge on any of these points, please let me know. I might be overthinking things, but since it is a very important process, I prefer to be throughout with it. Thank you in advance for any help!

[contorted_svy]

Hello everyone,

I am checking if I have everything to proceed with the application and I was wondering if anyone could help me clear some doubts.

- First arrival date: I first arrived in the UK many years ago (2011) to study, but then went away for some more years and eventually returned in 2018. I thought maybe I would put my first ever arrival date in UK (2011) and then explain things in a cover letter. It would be a bit weird to declare 2018 and then provide my degree (for the language requirement) that was achieved beforehand. What do you suggest?
put the time you came back that led to settlement. It won't be an issue if you got a degree in the UK that dates before that.
- Evidence of being physically present in the UK for 5 yrs: I don't have stamps on my passport, so things are a bit complicated. I heard from some online sources that it would be good to provide documents from 3 different entities for every year. Can you confirm this? I can provide P60s for some years. I also downloaded my HMRC Employment History, would that work? I can also download my COVID Vaccine Record from my NHS account but I am not sure if that would cover only a day or possibly a whole month or if it would be valid at all (it's technically not a letter but a web page that I digitally printed). I heard mixed opinions about bank statements but I can include those too. bank statements are not accepted and neither is the COVID vaccine. Provide P60s if you have them or employment letters. One piece of evidence covering each year will be enough. HMRC employment history not accepted.

- At the end of the AN Application form there is a Supporting document section. On that page, it mentions Evidence of National Insurance Contributions. However, being employed all the time isn't a requirement. For some months, I was simply self-sufficient. Would I have to prove that too and use the HMRC Employment History to cover the rest of the period? Not sure what you are referring to. Is this on the online form? This is not a piece of evidence that is compulsory. You will need other pieces of evidence for the months you were self sufficient. How long did that last/when?

- Some video online suggests that if you are not employed (but self-sufficient), there might be some issue with CSI (Comprehensive Sickness Insurance) and that it is better to mention it in the cover letter. At the time, I was using the NHS for the vaccines and a few visits. What do you suggest about that? don't trust online videos from random people. The CSI requirement was dropped a few years ago.

- Residency addresses and move-in / out dates. I tried my best to get them right, but they might be slightly off from what they could gather from other sources. For example, I can't recall if I changed my address with my bank the day I started sleeping in the next place, or when I fully moved my belongings, usually a few days later. I often have a contract in both places for at least a week. that's fine. You can explain in a cover letter that dates are at the best of your recollection. Moving date would be what counts.

I apologise for the many questions. If you have any knowledge on any of these points, please let me know. I might be overthinking things, but since it is a very important process, I prefer to be throughout with it. Thank you in advance for any help!

[alterhase58]

CSI has disappeared with Brexit!
You don’t have to mention or explain anything about it.

[Cupcake22]

Hello,

Thank you for your replies, they really helped me clear things up.

bank statements are not accepted and neither is the COVID vaccine. Provide P60s if you have them or employment letters. One piece of evidence covering each year will be enough. HMRC employment history not accepted.

I can cover the period from summer 2022 with P60 and payslips, but unfortunately, not the previous year and a half. I was technically employed from November 2021 to May, but it was just a casual job and I barely got any work from them so I didn't save any P45 or other documents. I'm not sure if contacting them could be useful at all since the actual given work wasn't even a month and they didn't even see me in person due to the pandemic.?
Unfortunately, I do not have bills or Council tax letters as it is all inlcuded in my rent.
I read some people suggesting to send a request for the information held at the Home Office Borders as it would show the times you got out of / back into the country like the passport stamps, is that an actual procedure? I can see something mentioned about it at page 50 of this government document, but I am confused about it.

Not sure what you are referring to. Is this on the online form? This is not a piece of evidence that is compulsory. You will need other pieces of evidence for the months you were self sufficient. How long did that last/when?

I saw it on the paper version that you would need to send by post. But you're right, it might not be compulsory as I rarely see people mentioning it around. What other pieces of evidence would I need to prove I was self-sufficient? Out of the last 5 years, it would have been a year and a half without a sufficient income, around 9 months totally self-sufficient. I was finishing an online bootcamp, but it wasn't a British one, everything was online anyway due to the pandemic and this one seemed of higher quality. So the invoice and certification from them wouldn't really be valid for this.

[contorted_svy]

Yes, you should apply for a SAR (see here https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... mmigration)

There is no concept of being self-sufficient for naturalisation. The issue is, as you are an EU citizen, you can't use your passport stamps to prove you were living here for 5 years, so you need government letters/documents to prove that. The most frequent piece of evidence used in these circumstances is an employment letter/P60, but employment or self sufficiency are not a requirement per se. You can however apply for a SAR, asking for all dates of entry/exit in the country in the last 5 years, and use that.

[Cupcake22]

Thank you for the advice. I'll try the SAR service.

[Cupcake22]

Hello,

I have received the SARU document. I have a few concerns about it.

1. The document has a paragraph about the information called "Why do we hold your data?" where they do explain they need the data for considering applications such as citizenship, so this data gets used on their end. However, later on in the document, there is a paragraph with the title "Handling and Restrictions" that says:

Any travel history provided should be interpreted as an intention to travel and not as proof of travel. The carrier should be approached directly if the information is required for an official process. This information is supplied by a carrier and the Home Office cannot verify its accuracy.
Embark/Disembark are the ports found within the booking (e.g multiple leg bookings) and are the initial/final ports the passenger is expected to travel from/to.

Therefore it would seem that this information isn't valid as proof of residency. Do you have any thoughts on this? Would it be better to contact the carriers? However the carrier isn't an official government body, so would a document from them be valid for the citizenship?

2. If the document is valid, I noticed there might be a small issue. The travels are sorted in a table, one row for each. However, there are some rows that are duplicated for the same flight. I am particularly concerned about one that shows in one row that my departure was confirmed, and then in the row below it says it was not. (the rest of the info for those 2 rows is exactly the same) Logically, since I have left the country and then there are details about my return a week later, someone would think the right row is the one with the departure confirmed, however I am afraid this detail might cause issues.

3. My flight from 2018 is missing (the time I got to UK and led to my settlement), I forgot to specify all of the old documents (since I can get through with either passport or ID) so that might be why, but I guess that doesn't matter as far as I have the journeys for the last 5 years correctly. To confirm, I don't need any document to prove my presence for the day at the beginning of the 5-year period, is this correct?

I wonder if my case is getting tricky, and it would be better for me to ask for professional advice.

[contorted_svy]

1. To my knowledge, a SAR is a government document. Appreciate there is some wording there to cover their backs, but from what I see in that paragraph the HO could contact the carriers directly to confirm the information. In any case, they wouldn't reject your application outright - you'd need to provide other proof of residing in the UK though. I have advised people to get a SAR before and we didn't hear reports of this failing.
It is quoted that you can use Home Office records in the guidance:

6.3 Absences
You must check the available evidence to see whether an applicant meets the residence requirements.

The following can be used as evidence of residence:

passports or travel documents which have been stamped to show arrival in the UK and entry and departure from other countries: these should be checked against the list of absences that applicants are asked to provide on the application form
Home Office records
if the applicant does not have passports to cover the qualifying period, other evidence such as employers’ letters or tax and National Insurance letters:
in such cases you should assess whether there is sufficient evidence to show that that applicant has been resident in the UK during the qualifying period, giving them the benefit of any doubt where claimed absences are within the limits we would normally allow and there are no grounds to doubt the accuracy of the claim

To me, a SAR is an excerpt of Home Office records, so I think it applies to your case. You are however welcome to speak to a solicitor if you wish, though I wouldn't personally classify your case as a complicated one.


2. It won't be an issue, as you will declare your travel dates.

3. Not an issue as it is not included in your qualifying period. No additional document required.

[Cupcake22]

Thank you for your reply. I am thinking if they ask for more proof of residence I might find myself without anything valid, since bank statements and tenancy agreements aren't valid. I do have an electoral registration letter and a doctor one, but that would cover only a month. However, from what you're saying it seems in the end the SAR is an acceptable document. I will take some good time to think and see all my options.