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HELP VISA REFUSED

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actuary
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HELP VISA REFUSED

Post by actuary » Wed Apr 22, 2009 10:41 am

My wife's visa (tier 1 dependent) has been refused. They objected that my balance went below £1600 for 5 days in february. The balance indeed went below 1600 for 5 days, but I had also attached my savings account (6 months) statement that was way above 1600 at any given time.

I really don't know why they objected? Did they completely miss the other statement or they just consider current account balance?

What should I do now?

Thanks!

batleykhan
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Post by batleykhan » Wed Apr 22, 2009 4:10 pm

What is the actual wording on the refusal notice?.If you can give an indication of this, maybe someone can help you further.

actuary
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Post by actuary » Wed Apr 22, 2009 5:52 pm

This is what they said

"As laid out in Appendix E of the immigration Rules, you must show that your sponsor has available 1600 pounds in available funds
(per dependent applying). These funds must be present in an account for the three consecutive months prior to your application.
The bank statement provided shows that on 2/2/09 the funds in the account dropped below the 1600 to 1400.22. I am
therefore not satisfied that there is a sufficient level of funds available to you as set out in Appendix E 319C(g)"

Now I checked that my saving account had the amount as stated above, BUT my current account at the same time had more than 3000 pounds. So the funds available were still around 4500! and I had sent in both the statements as proof of funds.

Why is it that they checked my saving account only, whereas they both are my accounts and the total sum together is the fund available for my disposal, or am I getting this all wrong now?

Thanks for your help!

actuary
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Post by actuary » Wed Apr 22, 2009 6:01 pm

As per http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/polic ... 1migrants/

there's no mentioning that there should be a certain account that needs to have that fund...


(g) Unless the Relevant Points Based System Migrant is a Tier 1 (Investor) Migrant, there must be a sufficient level of funds available to the applicant, as set out in Appendix E.

actuary
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Post by actuary » Thu Apr 23, 2009 10:46 am

Any advice guys? Do you think a supporting document from a lawyer help me since every lawyer i spoke to agreed that the ECO should've added the 2 accounts if he felt there's less amount.

batleykhan
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Post by batleykhan » Thu Apr 23, 2009 11:22 am

Ok you have two options.

One is to appeal against refusal by completing the refusal notice. In it you explain that the decision by the ECO is incorrect in that he has not taken into consideration the total sum of finance available to you in both accounts.

Send the Appeal notice back to where your wife applied from(not to the one in UK). The EC Manager is required to look at the notice and reconsider whether the decision by his officer was correct. If he thinks that the ECO has made a mistake, he will hopefully overturn the decision and grant visa.

If he thinks the ECO is correct, then I am afraid you have to go all the way with the appeal and argue your case at an appeal hearing ( which can take up to 6 months or more.

The other option is for you to reapply again, making sure that you have sufficient funds in one account(preferable) for the period of say 3 months or more.

What the ECO has done is that he has only looked at one of your account
instead of both and because of lack of funds in that account, he has made his decision that you dont have enough funds to support your wife. It looks like a typical mistake by an incompetent ECO ( unless of course he was not in receipt of details of your other account). Are you sure those were sent.

Just to be on the safe side, if you have copies of the two bank statements, send them with your appeal notice.

Dont go to a solicitor and pay a hefty sum to do this for you. You can do it yourself, if not use the free adice service by UKIAS or JCWI, law centre etc.

Good luck

actuary
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Post by actuary » Thu Apr 23, 2009 11:46 am

Hi, thanks and much appreciated for your response. I have spoken to a few people and they all agree (as you pointed out) that the ECO should've have considered the total from both the funds.

Do you think it would be a good idea to reapply with the same documents but this time having a letter explaining both the accounts? I really do agree that having all in 1 account is a better option, but that would mean waiting for another 1.5-2 months.

Thanks!

batleykhan
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Post by batleykhan » Thu Apr 23, 2009 12:20 pm

I still think you should write to ECM pointing out the mistake by the ECO, in the hope he will overturn it without it going to a full appeal hearing and without you having to pay the full fee, for what is not your fault.

However if you can afford it, then by all means do it. People who do this in my opinion are playing into the hands of the authority to keep refusing people for petty reasons in the hope they will reapply again and pay the full whack again.

I will leave the decision to you to decide what you feel maybe best for you. Good luck

oglox
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Post by oglox » Thu Apr 23, 2009 1:22 pm

yes i agree with Batley Khan, if you can afford it reapply again, with a letter stating that available funds to you are the 2 statements.
the ECO should have considered it but didn't - just like when my friends husband went to apply for his visa and was refused because - he did not present his wife's original bank statements! just like that!

they decided against an appeal as she wanted her husband with her quickly and had heard that appeals take a long time.

they reapplied and paid the full amount again and presto got the visa within 2 days.

so if you can afford it then reapply again, but if you can't then go to appeal. you have a good case

actuary
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Post by actuary » Thu Apr 23, 2009 1:52 pm

I agree that I should bring this under the notice of the ECM, but like you all pointed out, this could mean a long long wait. I realize I do have a case at hand but can't imagine the wait it could cause.

Now the question is, if I reapply again with the same statements (will need to add the previous 2 months in the application), would a letter from a lawyer confirming that the total funds in my account(s) have not gone below £1600 for the past 3 months help?

I am just worried that if I reapply again myself and with no other documenting support, there's no guarantee that the next ECO will not do the same mistake.

Thanks for your suggestions guys!

Junior0300
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Post by Junior0300 » Fri Apr 24, 2009 9:54 am

If you make a fresh application then there is a possibility that they could come up with any new objection for example insufficient documents to prove relationship etc.

If I were you I would try to get this current application through.

ginoT
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Post by ginoT » Fri Apr 24, 2009 11:19 am

I would appeal. as batleykhan says you'll be playing into their hands with the new fee etc. Make it very clear in the appeal submission why they are wrong. The way the appeals process works is that the consulate actually look at your reasons before it even goes to the appeal itself (if you submit the appeal through them). So if they think they have made a mistake they will overturn the decision straight away.

I would also write to the head of the visa section at the consulate AND i would also complain to the ambassador to let them know about your complaint. In the appeal submission let them know you have done this.

ALSO make it very clear in big bold letters to all that even if this goes to appeal and you win you will also be complaining to the Parliamentary and Health Service Ombudsman (they deal with complaints about public bodies including the Foreign Office)

Collectively this will scare the living cr@p out of the ECO as it means they've a nut on their case who will give them huge amounts of admin to deal with and potentially get them all into trouble. Again, make sure that ECO, head of visa section, AND ambassador know AT THE SAME TIME that you are appealing, that you are furious about this, AND that you're going to complain to the Ombudsman. The reason to do all this at the same time is that once the ECO has forwarded the appeal to the UK it's super unlikely they'll overturn the visa refusal because of the ambassador etc before the hearing has taken place.

If no response in 3 days, start chasing all them DAILY with phone calls, emails, and if you can get hold of it, their fax number. I know this all sounds completely OTT, but trust me, I've tried the "softly softly" approach. It doesn't work. When you go crazy on them they give in. You'll save yourself some money, doing all of us a favour, and maybe even some time as well if the gamble pays off

actuary
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Post by actuary » Mon Apr 27, 2009 10:26 am

Hi all, this is interesting:

Your husband, wife, civil partner or eligible partner and children under 18 can join you as your dependants in the UK if:

* they have a visa for this purpose and
* you can support them without any help from public funds. You need £1,600 for each dependant joining you within 12 months of your arrival in the UK and £533 thereafter.

I got this from http://www.ukvisas.gov.uk/en/howtoapply ... ralmigrant Doesn't this mean that the ECOs are looking for £1600 per dependent in each application, even if the sponsor has been in the UK for more than 12 months? Or am i mis-interpreting the above.

actuary
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Post by actuary » Mon Apr 27, 2009 10:46 pm

Ok guys, If I go for Administrative Review, its supposed to be dealt within 28 days. I know a guy who's visa refusal was overturned by the ECM within 20 days.

Now, a couple of questions:

1. If they take more than 28 days, can I withdraw the AR and file a fresh application?

2. If they still (for some reason) decline to issue my wife the visa, would I be given a chance to decide whether to pursue or not to pursue for a full fledged appeal or would they just pass the request to the AIT? Will I be able to file a new application during this time?

I have checked the guidance and it clearly says saving and current accounts should be considered http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... 310309.pdf on page 35.

"The evidence of maintenance must be of cash funds in the bank (this includes savings accounts and current accounts even when notice must be given), loan or official financial or government sponsorship available to the applicant. Other accounts or financial instruments such as shares, bonds, pension funds etc, regardless of notice period, are not acceptable."

Thanks guys!

batleykhan
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Post by batleykhan » Mon Apr 27, 2009 11:28 pm

Ok guys, If I go for Administrative Review, its supposed to be dealt within 28 days. I know a guy who's visa refusal was overturned by the ECM within 20 days.

Now, a couple of questions:

1. If they take more than 28 days, can I withdraw the AR and file a fresh application?

2. If they still (for some reason) decline to issue my wife the visa, would I be given a chance to decide whether to pursue or not to pursue for a full fledged appeal or would they just pass the request to the AIT? Will I be able to file a new application during this time?
1. You are free to make a fresh application at any time you wish.

2.Even though they may refuse you after the AR, you can reapply straightaway again if you wish . If you wish to go ahead with the original appeal , you dont need to do anything.

AIT will go ahead and arrange the appeal hearing for you to attend and argue your case in front of an adjudicator.

If you wish you can make a fresh application and still allow the appeal hearing application to continue. If you are succesful with your second application, just write to AIT and BHC saying you wish to withdraw the appeal and AIT will withdraw it for you.

Hope you've undestood all this

actuary
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Post by actuary » Tue Apr 28, 2009 9:38 am

Thanks batleykhan, very helpful :)

actuary
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Post by actuary » Tue Apr 28, 2009 10:30 am

One more thing, if you want to prove that they should be looking for £533 since I have been in the UK since more than 12 months, can the following evidences be sufficient:

1. Original HSMP approval letter that was issued 16 months ago?
2. Passport pages showing HSMP visa stamped 15 months ago?

Both these were submitted with the application, yet they looked for £1600 which is required for sponsors who have been in the UK for less than 12 months.

Thanks!

actuary
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Post by actuary » Tue Apr 28, 2009 8:12 pm

ok guys, here's something I just realized. I have been given the AIT-2 form with the refusal letter. I have been told that the administrative review form is an entirely different letter than AIT-2. Does this mean that I do not have the right to request administrative review?

actuary
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Post by actuary » Tue Apr 28, 2009 8:31 pm

Guess what! They did not even realize that I am a HSMP visa holder!

I changed from WP to HSMP last jan and the WP visa page clearly says to look at xxx page for the latest visa. The ECO took my application as WP dependent visa and I suspect that's why I did not get the correct review form (its for point based only!)

What a bunch of idiots, i swear.....

actuary
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Post by actuary » Tue Apr 28, 2009 8:54 pm

So, here is what I think they got it wrong:

1. Assessed the case on my discarded WP visa! Did not even see that I am on HSMP. That's why they did not give me the PBS Admin Review form!

2. Did not look into my other account for the month where I ran 200 pounds short in one account. The HO confirmed me today that the ECOs are supposed to consider both accounts.

3. I have been in the UK for more than 12 months, so they should've considered 533 pounds for funds for my dependent, rather than 1600 if you've been here for less than 12 months. The HO confirmed that the ECO should be able to verify that by looking into the passport pages.

Guys, I think this is a big big mess they have made here. I really do not think they even look into an application completely and this is soooooooo stupid of them!! Really pissed off!

What do you think I should do now?

batleykhan
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Post by batleykhan » Tue Apr 28, 2009 11:45 pm

If you are confident then go through the Appeal procedure and make em look like fools in a court of law. That will teach them to be extra careful in the future.

If on the other hand you make a fresh application, because you cant wait for a hearing, then I am afraid to say that you are all talk and no action. By doing this you are caving into them to keep on doing this , and then get people to pay again rather than challenge their decisions

From my experience most people tend to win their appeal at a hearing...... that is if they have guts to go that far,

Good luck whatever you do,but you better be quick otherwise you will run out of time to do something about it

actuary
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Post by actuary » Thu Apr 30, 2009 5:12 pm

I am going to put up an appeal this weekend, lets hope the ECM realizes the mistake and reverts his decision.

On the other hand, a question from one of my friends, whom I could not answer. He is about to submit a spouse application and has good funds to show, however the rent for the flat he has taken up is being paid from a different account. Should it matter if the maintainace funds proof does not show up the rent paid out each month? Should the ECO be concerned with this? Looking at my case, he really doesn't want to put up more than 1 account for proof of funds.

Thanks!

batleykhan
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Post by batleykhan » Thu Apr 30, 2009 7:54 pm

Time to stop talking and to do something about your problem.

The only option is to complete the AIT2 (Appeal Notice) and send it back to where your wife applied and not AIT in UK.

Upon receipt of the refusal notice the Entry Clearance Manager will carry out a review of the refusal on the basis of what you say in the Notice.

If what you say in your comments is true , then there is a good chance the ECM will overturn the earlier decision and the visa will be granted without it having to go to an appeal hearing.

If the ECM is still not happy with your reasons and sticks to the original decision,then I am afraid you have to go through the ardious procedure of the hearing.

One word of advice and that is dont leave it to long as you only have 28 days to get the notice in to the BHC

actuary
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Post by actuary » Tue May 05, 2009 10:52 am

AIT2 form filled and posted to the Abu Dhabi embassy on the weekend. lets hope some sane person sees and realizes the problem.

BatleyKhan, can you help with my other enquiry?

batleykhan
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Post by batleykhan » Tue May 05, 2009 11:22 am

Whats your other problem?.Please explain in full detail here or by sending private message to me.

Why have you sent form to Abu Dhabi?. i sthat where you made the initial application.I thought you are from Pakistan?

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