uk/japanese spouse

[j172h]

i am planning to het married to a japanese natioanl at the end of this year we are getting married in the uk and wish to live there. i am a british citizen.. my fiance is going to get a finace visa and then we are going to get married.
my questions are
what documents does my finace need to get married in the UK

is it fairly straight foward to change from a fiance visa to a spouse visa.

is it best to get married in a church or a registery office.

do we have to pay a fee for the ffiance visaa and then again for a spouse visa.

also i read the requirements that i need to enable him to get a fiance visa and i need adequate accomodation do you know if it is possible for me to rent a room from my parents house for us both or do i have to have my own house or rent a house.

at the moment i am in japan on a tourist visa i am returning in june and i am currently unemployed i plan to get a job when i retur, do yo uknow if i have to be employed for a certain amount of time before my fiance can apply for a visa also the two of us dont have much savings will this cause a problem.

do most people who apply for a spuse visa usually get accepted i dont know how tight the uk immigration is.


finally do you know where i can get information on how to register the marriage in japan.
thank you sorry for the amounf of questions.

[tdabash]

Hello there,

I am pleased to answer your questions and wish you all the best in the fruture.

*what documents does my fiancé need to get married in the UK

Please review kayalami’s advice
http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=458

*is it fairly straight forward to change from a fiancé visa to a spouse visa.

Let us review the law together

Requirements for leave to enter the United Kingdom as a fiancé(e) (ie with a view to marriage and permanent settlement in the United Kingdom)
290. The requirements to be met by a person seeking leave to enter the United Kingdom as a fiancé(e) are that:
(i) the applicant is seeking leave to enter the United Kingdom for marriage to a person present and settled in the United Kingdom or who is on the same occasion being admitted for settlement; and
(ii) the parties to the proposed marriage have met; and
(iii) each of the parties intends to live permanently with the other as his or her spouse after the marriage; and
(iv) adequate maintenance and accommodation without recourse to public funds will be available for the applicant until the date of the marriage; and
(v) there will, after the marriage, be adequate accommodation for the parties and any dependants without recourse to public funds in accommodation which they own or occupy exclusively; and
(vi) the parties will be able after the marriage to maintain themselves and any dependants adequately without recourse to public funds; and
(vii) the applicant holds a valid United Kingdom entry clearance for entry in this capacity.
290A. For the purposes of paragraph 290 and paragraphs 291-295, an EEA national who, under either the Immigration (European Economic Area) Order 1994 or the 2000 EEA Regulations, has been issued with a residence permit valid for 5 years is to be regarded as present and settled in the United Kingdom even if that EEA national has not been granted permission to remain in the United Kingdom indefinitely.
Leave to enter as a fiancé(e)
291. A person seeking leave to enter the United Kingdom as a fiancé(e) may be admitted, with a prohibition on employment, for a period not exceeding 6 months to enable the marriage to take place provided a valid United Kingdom entry clearance for entry in this capacity is produced to the Immigration Officer on arrival.
Refusal of leave to enter as a fiancé(e)
292. Leave to enter the United Kingdom as a fiancé(e) is to be refused if a valid United Kingdom entry clearance for entry in this capacity is not produced to the Immigration Officer on arrival.
Requirements for an extension of stay as a fiancé(e)
293. The requirements for an extension of stay as a fiancé(e) are that:
(i) the applicant was admitted to the United Kingdom with a valid United Kingdom entry clearance as a fiancé(e); and
(ii) good cause is shown why the marriage did not take place within the initial period of leave granted under paragraph 291; and
(iii) here is satisfactory evidence that the marriage will take place at an early date; and
(iv) he requirements of paragraph 290 (ii)-(vi) are met.
Extension of stay as a fiancé(e)
294. An extension of stay as a fiancé(e) may be granted for an appropriate period with a prohibition on employment to enable the marriage to take place provided the Secretary of State is satisfied that each of the requirements of paragraph 293 is met.
Refusal of extension of stay as a fiancé(e)
295. An extension of stay is to be refused if the Secretary of State is not satisfied that each of the requirements of paragraph 293 is met.

Comment

You have stated that you do not have a job in the UK as yet and you do not have an accommodation. Do you think that you and your fiancé will be able to satisfy the requirement of the law as shown above? If you do not satisfy the requirement, your fiancé visa will be refused and it would be difficult to win an appeal.

*is it fairly straight forward to change from a fiancé visa to a spouse visa

.
I can not see a provision in the rules that enables your fiancé to change his visa to spouse visa inland. It seems that the law has permitted the fiancé to come to the UK for the purpose of marriage then she/he has to go back to her/his own country to obtain a spouse visa. I would consult the moderators to confirm or refute.

*is it best to get married in a church or a registry office.

It does not make a difference where do you want the ceremony. What really matters is a legal marriage certificate signed by two witnesses and the Registrar. It can be done in registry office OR the registrar would attend the church to do it.

*do we have to pay a fee for the fiancé visa and then again for a spouse visa.

I am afraid this might be the case.

*also I read the requirements that I need to enable him to get a fiancé visa and I need adequate accommodation do you know if it is possible for me to rent a room from my parents house for us both or do I have to have my own house or rent a house.

You do not need to rent a room from your parents if they are the Landlords and can give you and your fiance an authorization to stay.

In addition to this a letter of support from your parents plus a certificate from the local authority in respect of the adequacy of the accommodation would be very helpful.

If you elected to rent a room from your parents you need to submit with the tenancy agreement: 1- evidence that they are the Landlords or permission from the Landlord for them to rent. 2- Evidence of their British passports. 3- A letter from your parents saying that they have no objection for your fiancé to stay with you.

Alternatively, your parents may wish to give the authorization or tenancy agreement in joint names from the start i.e. your name and your fiancé s name

This of course would be subject to intense examination by the ECO. He/she would look at the number of rooms in the house and the practicality in the 4 of you living together. It is of course much better if you can provide an evidence of your own accommodation. It is quite understandable that young people are facing difficulty when they rent or as a first time buyers; in view of the current house prices.

The law specifies adequate accommodation. It did not say ‘your own accommodation’. If however, the ECO refuses the visa on the basis of inadequate accommodation after supplying authorization from your parents, letter of support and certificate of local authority, I am sure you would win your appeal because adjudicators do think.

The above answer is specific to your question. However you may wish to see Kayalami’s advice in
http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=329

*at the moment I am in Japan on a tourist visa I am returning in June and I am currently unemployed I plan to get a job when I return, do you know if I have to be employed for a certain amount of time before my fiancé can apply for a visa also the two of us don’t have much savings will this cause a problem.

The law did not specify certain time, but usually ECOs accept 3-6 months, the longer the better.

*do most people who apply for a spouse visa usually get accepted I don’t know how tight the UK immigration is.

If you established the requirements of the law, the visa is likely to be issued. Having said that ECOs are human beings and they do mistakes. That is why most of their decisions in these circumstances are subject to allowed appeals (winners).
We do not wish to go down this route because an appeal may take approximately a year to be heard. I suspect it would take longer in the future because all spouse visas should now be obtained from outside the UK. With greater number of refusals the work will accumulate in the UK.

*finally do you know where I can get information on how to register the marriage in Japan.

Please visit the website to the British consulate in Japan, consular section
http://www.uknow.or.jp/be_e/consular/


If you are satisfied that your fiancé is the perfect husband for you, call your parents and discuss the situation with them because they have the right to give you an opinion and are likely to be involved in the accommodation business.

When you are decided as what you are planning to do please come back to us and we will be happy to lay an immigration strategy within the context of the law.

GOOD LUCK

[marka]

Quote:
*is it fairly straight forward to change from a fiancé visa to a spouse visa
.
I can not see a provision in the rules that enables your fiancé to change her visa to spouse visa inland. It seems that the law has permitted the fiancé to come to the UK for the purpose of marriage then she/he has to go back to her/his own country to obtain a spouse visa. I would consult the moderators to confirm or refute.

Actually, it is easy to change from fiance to spouse visa. It can be done same day at croydon PEO. The system is setup for the fiance to enter the UK on the fiance visa, get married and then change to a spouse visa in country.

marka

[tdabash]

Marka,

It is lovely to know that the system was set up to a strait forward change from fiancé visa to LTR (on basis of marriage). It does sound very logical.

It could be an indication within rule 290 '

Requirements for leave to enter the United Kingdom as a fiancé(e) (ie with a view to marriage and permanent settlement in the United Kingdom)

290. The requirements to be met by a person seeking leave to enter the United Kingdom as a fiancé(e) are that:
(i) the applicant is seeking leave to enter the United Kingdom for marriage to a person present and settled in the United Kingdom or who is on the same occasion being admitted for settlement; and
(ii) the parties to the proposed marriage have met; and
(iii) each of the parties intends to live permanently with the other as his or her spouse after the marriage; and
(iv) adequate maintenance and accommodation without recourse to public funds will be available for the applicant until the date of the marriage; and
(v) there will, after the marriage, be adequate accommodation for the parties and any dependants without recourse to public funds in accommodation which they own or occupy exclusively; and
(vi) the parties will be able after the marriage to maintain themselves and any dependants adequately without recourse to public funds; and
(vii) the applicant holds a valid United Kingdom entry clearance for entry in this capacity.

But is it a frank provision? If the IO has made a mistake, would the applicant be able to use rule 290 as a ground for his/her appeal?

Thank you.

[Kayalami]

just to echo/complement comments by Marka and tdabash,

1. You can change from a fiance/ee to a spouse visa 'in country' - the amendment to the rules preventing an 'in country' switch for those on a visa issued for 6 months or less does not apply to a fiance/ee visa. After the marriage proceed to a Public Enquiry Office with marriage certificate and supporting documents. If all is in order you will get a spouse visa on the day.

2. Your main challenge will be meeting the 'can maintain and accomodate themselves without recourse to public funds' sections of the rules because of the unemployment and lack of accomodation issue. Expect the ECO to grill you on this.

3. You do not have to own the property you occupy - the caveat here is that you have accomodation you exclusively occupy. Case law has seen this interpreted as having at least one bedroom which you use exclusivley. ECO's understand that newly wed couples need/ can receive support from family and friends - however this must be strictly on a short term basis - IMHO max of 3 months. Review the links by tdabash to previous posts we have put together in particular those to 'Ge'.

4. You need to contact the Japanese Embassy in London for details of registering the marriage in Japan.

5. Note that from a legal point of view you have stronger grounds for entry into the UK as a spouse than as a fiance/ee because the Human Rights Act take into account the 'right to family life' - it does not guarantee entry though! You may therefore wish to consider marriage in Japan as an option too.

Best wishes for the future

[j172h]

thanks for all your help it is really useful. i am actually thinking about renting somewhere when i get a job back home it seems safer that way.

i have considered getting married here in japan and have changed my mind several times about the idea, i want to get married with my family there and they will not travel to japan. i wanted to get married in japan as well as the UK but i am not sure if this is possible. also time is running out for me here it takes a while to get the relavent paper woek and for getting married in japan all you need to do is go to the city hall and sign some papers.

its so confusing and stressful in what to do.

could you please tell me what ECO stands for.
thanks.

[tdabash]

Hello there,

Could you please tell me what ECO stands for?

ECO means Entry Clearance Officer i.e. the visa officer; that employee in the British consulate who sometimes applies the immigration rules wrong .
____________________________________________________________
Comment

You mentioned that time is running against you to get the paperwork. Can your fiancé afford a ticket to the UK?

Taking into consideration, the worries you are having, your current thinking and the present situation I would suggest the following options

Options

1-Get married in Japan. Travel with your Japanese husband. He can travel as visitor. He does not need to go to the British consulate as he is able to obtain a visa in the airport. (He is non visa national). Meet the family. Get married in the church with all your family. Find a job and accommodation and sort your paper work out. He would then return to Japan to get his marriage visa.

2-Travel with your fiancé to the UK. You will both stay at your parents initially. Your fiancé will meet the family. Get married. Find a job and accommodation. Get all your paperwork right. He would then return to Japan to get her marriage visa.


3-Travel to the UK. Sort yourself and the paper work out. Send to him the supporting papers to come as fiancé (risky choice).

4- Travel to the UK. Sort yourself and the paperwork out. He comes to the UK. Meet the family. Get married. He returns to Japan for his marriage visa.

If you decided to get married whether in Japan or the UK, the applicable immigration rules would be:

281. The requirements to be met by a person seeking leave to enter the United Kingdom with a view to settlement as the spouse of a person present and settled in the United Kingdom or who is on the same occasion being admitted for settlement are that:

(i) (a) the applicant is married to a person present and settled in the United Kingdom or who is on the same occasion being admitted for settlement; or

(b) the applicant is married to a person who has a right of abode in the United Kingdom or indefinite leave to enter or remain in the United Kingdom and is on the same occasion seeking admission to the United Kingdom for the purposes of settlement and the parties were married at least 4 years ago, since which time they have been living together outside the United Kingdom; and

(ii) the parties to the marriage have met; and

(iii) each of the parties intends to live permanently with the other as his or her spouse and the marriage is subsisting; and

(iv) there will be adequate accommodation for the parties and any dependants without recourse to public funds in accommodation which they own or occupy exclusively; and

(v) the parties will be able to maintain themselves and any dependants adequately without recourse to public funds; and

(vi) the applicant holds a valid United Kingdom entry clearance for entry in this capacity.

I would suggest you keep evidence of your relation such as photographs, letters, emails, proof of telephone calls and any thing you have done together. If you have not done that, please have the evidence of your relation from the start before you leave Japan and carry on doing so until he gets his visa. He should do the same.

Once you are in the UK, you will be able to prepare yourself for any violation of the law that might be practiced by ECOs. You also have a political input in the form of your MP who is able to question the secretary of the states.

Whatever option you choose, it is appropriate to call your parents and discuss the situation with them.

Good luck

[j172h]

why do you seem to think that it is risky getting a fiance visa. have you had any experience in getting one. i thought that it wouldnt be that risky as it is specially for the purpouse of getting married.

by the way im sorry i got finace and fiancee mixed up i am actually a lady and my husband to be is a man.

also my parents know about the situation and are very supportive in what ever i do and they have also met him as he went to uni near my house for over a year.

i really appreciate your help. thank you again.

[tdabash]

Hello there,

please refer to my post to Ge on this board to see how the ECOs would sometimes get it wrong.

If you got refusal for whatever reason the ECO may invent, you have the right to appeal. It would take up to a year for your appeal to be heard and further 56 days to be final if the Home office did not decide to go to a tribunal.

Thinking law, I echo Kayalami in

'Note that from a legal point of view you have stronger grounds for entry into the UK as a spouse than as a fiance/ee because the Human Rights Act take into account the 'right to family life'

. This is article 8 ECHR.

What do you think yourself if there is a marriage certificate? Can any one prevent your husband to join you? Especially if the requirement of the law is established.

Fiance/ee came from Frensh. Fiance is a male & fiancee is a female. Please do not worry about the wording.Previous post has been amended. We now know that you are a pretty lady .

Good luck