Additional Docs requested

[churchholigan]

I applied for citizenship in March 2008. INIS asked me for payslips and bank statments 2 weeks ago. Does anyone knows if this is a sign that they are ok with all the external agencies check? Does any knows, if they are ok with the external checks, how long will it take INIS to tell me yes/no in my application? Cheers

[IRISH PHAROE]

IS THIS THE FIRST TIME FOR THEM TO ASK YOU FOR FURTHER DOCUMENTS?

[agniukas]

that means that they started processing your application and are awaiting for external reports at the same time. it can take around a year from this point on till the decision is issued.

[IRISH PHAROE]

ALSO PLEASE FIND ANOTHER THREAD THAT MIGHT GIVE YOU AN IDEA


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IRISH PHAROE wrote:
And as they are dealing with 2008 applicants why they are not clear and put in their website that they are commencing processing of mid 2009.
what a transparent process?!!!!!!


Just to lend in some clarifications about this and I have seen a few posts around on the issue as well.

Let me start by saying, I can only speak for applications made based on 5 years residency as I understand that the numbers and details of required documentations and checks done for other categories are different. Also the summary I provide here is based on my personal experience and from evidence of what we've seen on the forum. Please do not take this as a form of legal or authoritative representation of INIS operations.

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When INIS says "we have started further processing" take that as literary meaning, we are beginning to dust off your files received in mid 200X and we will now start to process it.


==> The so called further processing stage involves

i)Rechecking for any supporting documents that might be required that weren't picked at the initial stage.
ii)Send out a letter to applicants requesting additional documents - Payslips, P60s/21s, etc (and yes, some people are never asked for additional documents any any stage, but I have to say based on my observation, majority are)
iii)Send out report request to Gardi and social welfare.

I know there appears to be some disagreement as to which comes first (ii) or (iii)? I am convinced that they do (ii) before (iii) in most cases. Another strong possibilities is that they send both set of request out at the same time.

The time frame recorded here so far to complete i to iii above have varied between 3 - 18 months depending largely on how quickly the reports arrive from the so called outside agencies (Garda & SW office).

Note: One more important factor I'll like to share with people is that the time frame between when INIS receives each of the outside agency report is important. We've had cases here in the past where SW reports were received and Garda reports arrived more than 6 months later. In such instances, INIS had to re-request the SW report as it was not considered recent enough to make a valid decision. This could set off a potential cycle where reports verification may drag on unnecessarily. What I did on the advice of some knowledgeable forum member, and I've always advised others to do is; If it's more than 6 months since you submitted additional documents and you haven't received anything back, obtain your SW report from the SW office and send it to INIS. They do accept SW reports sent in by applicants themselves and do send them update SW every 3-6 months to ensure that you are not snookered by the recency factor.
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==> Once all relevant reports are received, the file moved to what INIS calls advanced stage. This involves:

i) An officer looks at all the material facts and information provided on the application, documentations reports etc and makes a recommendation to approve or refuse the application
ii) A second (generally more senior) officer cross checks and agrees or disagree with the 1st officer.
iii) Applications sent to the ministers office for final approval or refusal based on the recommendation of officer 1&2.

The time frame between (i) & ii) has been noted to vary between 5 weeks to 3 months.
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I hope this is of assistance to people and as i said please don't take this as the final word but some kind of guidance to help clarify some confusions as I have observed them here.


Goodluck to all - Ã

[churchholigan]

IS THIS THE FIRST TIME FOR THEM TO ASK YOU FOR FURTHER DOCUMENTS?

No. Actually, This is the second time they are asking for it. I notified them that I left the country for family reason about 1 year ago. I came back last month. I wrote to them and asked if I will need to reapply again because I left the country for 1 year. They just replied to me with a letter stating that if I resume work, just send them 3 payslips and 3 months bank statements. From what I was reading in the forum, INIS might ask me to reapply when I submit payslips and bank statements to them. I guess will have to wait and see. Thank you for the reply.

[scrudu]

I'm curious about this .. I don't understand what the relevance of these "further doc's" are and how INIS are entitled to ask for them or what bearing they can have on an application.

Citizenship is granted/not granted based on a list of requirements (depend varying on grounds of application) and ministers discretion (who the hell knows what is involved in this broad and ridiculously vague term). If the applicant has satisfied the criteria involved in their application, what relevance have more recent residency documents in this application? It seems to me that INIS are either a) trying to "seem" like they are actually doing something with an application (while actually doing nothing other than requesting irrelevant documents) or b) simply looking for more doc's for a possible excuse to deny an application (e.g. change in circumstance from when doc's were submitted).

In either case what is the point or why bother submitting any further documents (even if they have been requested) as they do not bear any relevance to the criteria under which the applicant applied. E.g. lets mention some possible changed situations

1) Application based on 5 Years Residency : Let's say the applicant worked for the full 5 years, no social welfare etc., no criminal records, fully complies with the requirements of the basis for application AND does not invoke the wrath of the "Ministers Discretion", what relevance does it have if 2 years after applying the applicant has no job, or has changed address, or has applied for social welfare, or any of the other things that could be intuited from the "additional documents". Should any of these items affect the citizenship application? If not (as I believe they should not be), then why bother requesting the documents in the first place? What bearing do they have on the application?

2) Application based on Marriage to Irish Citizen: Let's say the applicant was married to their Irisih spouse for the requisite 3 years, was resident in Ireland for the 3 years etc., fully complies with all requirements of the basis for application AND does not invoke the wrath of the "Ministers Discretion", what relevance does it have if 2 years after applying the applicant has no job, or has changed address, is no longer with their Irish spouse, does not share utility bills, lives separately from their Irish spouse etc. or any of the other things that could be intuited from the "additional documents". Should any of these items affect the citizenship application? If not (as I believe they should not be), then why bother requesting the documents in the first place? What bearing do they have on the application?

This absolutely infuriates me. What right have INIS to set down further requirements than those already set down in Irish Statutes and request such information. Just because they are wilfully inept at processing applications, does not give them the right to add new requirements to a citizenship application at a later date.

Has anyone tried to challenge this either by phone, in writing or through a solicitor yet? I would love to hear from anyone who has objected to this request?

My husband (spouse of Irish citizen applicant) who applied in Nov 09 has also recently been requested such documents. To this date the documents have not been submitted. I am incensed that INIS feel they can request irrelevant documents 19 mths later despite him fully complying with the citizenship requirements and submitting all required (as well as tonnes of un-required but relevant) documents. What law or statute are they requesting such documentation under?

[fatty patty]

I'm curious about this .. I don't understand what the relevance of these "further doc's" are and how INIS are entitled to ask for them or what bearing they can have on an application.

Citizenship is granted/not granted based on a list of requirements (depend varying on grounds of application) and ministers discretion (who the hell knows what is involved in this broad and ridiculously vague term). If the applicant has satisfied the criteria involved in their application, what relevance have more recent residency documents in this application? It seems to me that INIS are either a) trying to "seem" like they are actually doing something with an application (while actually doing nothing other than requesting irrelevant documents) or b) simply looking for more doc's for a possible excuse to deny an application (e.g. change in circumstance from when doc's were submitted).

In either case what is the point or why bother submitting any further documents (even if they have been requested) as they do not bear any relevance to the criteria under which the applicant applied. E.g. lets mention some possible changed situations

1) Application based on 5 Years Residency : Let's say the applicant worked for the full 5 years, no social welfare etc., no criminal records, fully complies with the requirements of the basis for application AND does not invoke the wrath of the "Ministers Discretion", what relevance does it have if 2 years after applying the applicant has no job, or has changed address, or has applied for social welfare, or any of the other things that could be intuited from the "additional documents". Should any of these items affect the citizenship application? If not (as I believe they should not be), then why bother requesting the documents in the first place? What bearing do they have on the application?

2) Application based on Marriage to Irish Citizen: Let's say the applicant was married to their Irisih spouse for the requisite 3 years, was resident in Ireland for the 3 years etc., fully complies with all requirements of the basis for application AND does not invoke the wrath of the "Ministers Discretion", what relevance does it have if 2 years after applying the applicant has no job, or has changed address, is no longer with their Irish spouse, does not share utility bills, lives separately from their Irish spouse etc. or any of the other things that could be intuited from the "additional documents". Should any of these items affect the citizenship application? If not (as I believe they should not be), then why bother requesting the documents in the first place? What bearing do they have on the application?

This absolutely infuriates me. What right have INIS to set down further requirements than those already set down in Irish Statutes and request such information. Just because they are wilfully inept at processing applications, does not give them the right to add new requirements to a citizenship application at a later date.

Has anyone tried to challenge this either by phone, in writing or through a solicitor yet? I would love to hear from anyone who has objected to this request?

My husband (spouse of Irish citizen applicant) who applied in Nov 09 has also recently been requested such documents. To this date the documents have not been submitted. I am incensed that INIS feel they can request irrelevant documents 19 mths later despite him fully complying with the citizenship requirements and submitting all required (as well as tonnes of un-required but relevant) documents. What law or statute are they requesting such documentation under?

Very valid point scrudu. But until there is significant reform in this department or should i say there is a will to do any reform in this department it will always be the same. As INIS writes to the applicants once in a blue moon so I doubt if there is any desire by the applicants to challenge the extra documentation request because to hear from citizenship section is like a lottery so one don't want to delay more or mess it up i suppose.