please delete the thread moderator

[linux44]

Hello,
I currently have a post study work visa(psw) and a job offer.
The issue is I am worried about when my visa expires and since the company stated that if my right to work in the UK ends my employments is likely to end too.

Employer is happy to accept me with my psw visa, however they mentioned to me that they have already used their allocation of Tier 2 General visa.
I know that they do sponsor employees and since the job is an entry level vacancy, I am guessing that they may offer me sponsorship if they feel that I am good enough later on.

I would like to know if there are any other options available to me to extend my visa.

Do I need sponsorship from the company to be able to stay in the UK?

I appreciate your advice

Many thanks in advance

[ddb]

Yes you do need sponsorship from the company to be able to stay in the UK when your PSW expires.

As you mentioned earlier, they might offer you sponsorship if they feel that you are good enough later on BUT you have to bear in mind what they told you about their allocation. If they decide later on that you've proved your worth and agree to sponsor you, the worry then would be if they would be successful in getting extra allocations (that's if they still do not have allocations by then).

I think if you decide to work for this company, you should also keep looking for vacancies in other companies that are willing to sponsor employees.

As for other options available, only the Tier 4 route comes to mind.

[linux44]

Thanks for your reply,
I do understand that, however it somehow doesn't make scense to me that they accept a new joiner knowing that he/she can only work permit for 2 years and not considering what happens next, if the only option to extend my visa is sponsorship!

I do not know how the allocation works will companies get new sponsorship allocations each year?

Many thanks

[ddb]

it somehow doesn't make scense to me that they accept a new joiner knowing that he/she can only work permit for 2 years and not considering what happens next, if the only option to extend my visa is sponsorship!

Call me cynical, but I think companies do that because it saves them having to sack any employee if they needed to downsize - the PSW employee would not put up much of a fight and would probably leave peacefully; or maybe they do it so that they hire the skills they require for that period without thinking of having to shoulder the responsibility of ensuring the employees extension of leave to remain in the country. It's a bit annoying but somehow you can't totally blame the company because to them, dealing with the UKBA can also be huge pain in their behinds. Just saying.

I do not know how the allocation works will companies get new sponsorship allocations each year?

Yeh, it's an annual thing. Read paragraph 162 to 174 of the Sponsor Guidance. Hope it helps.

[linux44]

Thanks for your response.
It was very helpful.
All the best

[linux44]

Just one thing ,
DO u think that a company would employ and give u load of benefit and training just to sack u a year/two later?

Also guys my friend has just graduated this year and want to apply for post study but he hasn't got his uni certificate to proof he has a uni qualification. Any ideas what he should do ?

Thanks

[ddb]

Just one thing ,
DO u think that a company would employ and give u load of benefit and training just to sack u a year/two later?

Yeh, that doesn't seem to portray the company as being pragmatic in their decision making. Excluding possibly deciding to make the PSW employee redundant in 2 yrs, I feel you were probably told that your job would end when your permit does so that they would rid themselves of any liability just in case you aren't successful in extending your stay in the future (including if things get messed up when they maybe decide to sponsor you - they might just remind you of what they'd told you at the start and feel less guilty). Pardon my coming across as having a little grudge (maybe I have a little, based on experience, but it's all good now ).

Also guys my friend has just graduated this year and want to apply for post study but he hasn't got his uni certificate to proof he has a uni qualification. Any ideas what he should do ?

Your friend just needs a letter from the Uni confirming/certifying his name, course details, when he started and when his course ended, plus when he would be having his graduation ceremony.

[arsenal49]

just to add something...

you need not concern yourself with COS allocation limits and what not.

1.Get your company on a register of sponsors
2.Find out SOC Code and appropriate pay
3.Conduct market test, if required
4.Apply for tier 2 app.
5.????
6.Profit

[linux44]

just to add something...

you need not concern yourself with COS allocation limits and what not.

1.Get your company on a register of sponsors
2.Find out SOC Code and appropriate pay
3.Conduct market test, if required
4.Apply for tier 2 app.
5.????
6.Profit

hi,
sorry i am not sure if i got what u mean, are u saying that i should register the company i work for and follow the remaining actions

[arsenal49]

your company must be registered.

i dont think you CAN personally register it because in all likelihood you dont have access to companys registration papers etc.

What you can do, is help your HR out by telling them what docs are required etc. and make sure they follow the procedures written on UKBA site to get registered.

Bottom line is... your company MUST be on the register before you can even think about applying for Tier 2.

[ddb]

just to add something...

you need not concern yourself with COS allocation limits and what not.

1.Get your company on a register of sponsors
2.Find out SOC Code and appropriate pay
3.Conduct market test, if required
4.Apply for tier 2 app.
5.????
6.Profit

hi,
sorry i am not sure if i got what u mean, are u saying that i should register the company i work for and follow the remaining actions

It is not the responsibility of the employee/prospective employee to acquire a sponsor license for a/the company. It is the responsibility of the company (whoever is assigned to handle it - usually a staff in the HR department, or the employee involved; if they are in that department), to see to it that the requirements are met in other to get the license.

However, the employee/prospective employee can advise or provide information (if need be), as regards to what the company has to do in order to acquire a sponsor license, along with all other responsibilities attached to having and retaining a license.

As regards to linux44's case, the company being on the register is not the issue/case as they already hold a Sponsor license - refer to the initial post on this topic. The issue is about getting sponsored in the future/company's CoS allocations.

[linux44]

your company must be registered.

i dont think you CAN personally register it because in all likelihood you dont have access to companys registration papers etc.

What you can do, is help your HR out by telling them what docs are required etc. and make sure they follow the procedures written on UKBA site to get registered.

Bottom line is... your company MUST be on the register before you can even think about applying for Tier 2.

overall with the annual limits, do you think it will be hard for them to obtain a certificate for me if I am graduated from here which i don't need a labour market test ( if that is a correct term)?

On UKBA i have read most of the sections related to Tier 1 study and have some idea about the overall process. In one section it says after working for an employer for 6 month under PSW then I can apply for sponsorship which then I can be assigned a certificate and gain 30 point .
My understanding is that this also does not require labour market test so does the above sentence mean that I am guranteed to be assigned one ?

The sentence is a bit confusing ( At first I thought it is saying that I do not even need to be sponsored as I am assigned one automatically but I guess this is not correct).

So u see I have done a bit of my homework but not very familar with the rules and their interprations.

finally in ur view what is a different between a permanent and contract job offer, at the moment I have a permanent offer so does mean if I leave, i will be compensated or .... ?

[ddb]

overall with the annual limits, do you think it will be hard for them to obtain a certificate for me if I am graduated from here which i don't need a labour market test ( if that is a correct term)?

Currently, the Tier 2 (General) annual limits do not apply to you, as you would be assigned an 'Unrestricted CoS' if your company decides to sponsor you [Unrestricted applies to employees already in the country].

On UKBA i have read most of the sections related to Tier 1 study and have some idea about the overall process. In one section it says after working for an employer for 6 month under PSW then I can apply for sponsorship which then I can be assigned a certificate and gain 30 point .
My understanding is that this also does not require labour market test so does the above sentence mean that I am guranteed to be assigned one ?

Yes you are; granted your company decides to sponsor you and the haven't used up their CoS allocations by the time your are due to extend your stay in the country (depending on if the current rules still apply by that time).

finally in ur view what is a different between a permanent and contract job offer, at the moment I have a permanent offer so does mean if I leave, i will be compensated or .... ?

See Employment. Might shed more light.

[linux44]

overall with the annual limits, do you think it will be hard for them to obtain a certificate for me if I am graduated from here which i don't need a labour market test ( if that is a correct term)?

Currently, the Tier 2 (General) annual limits do not apply to you, as you would be assigned an 'Unrestricted CoS' if your company decides to sponsor you [Unrestricted applies to employees already in the country].


What does CoS means?

On UKBA i have read most of the sections related to Tier 1 study and have some idea about the overall process. In one section it says after working for an employer for 6 month under PSW then I can apply for sponsorship which then I can be assigned a certificate and gain 30 point .
My understanding is that this also does not require labour market test so does the above sentence mean that I am guranteed to be assigned one ?

Yes you are; granted your company decides to sponsor you and the haven't used up their CoS allocations by the time your are due to extend your stay in the country (depending on if the current rules still apply by that time).

I guess that wouldn't matter any more as I am not subject to the limit as u said erlier so even if they use their allocation I still can be sponsored????? cant i ?

What about the labour market test ? do they need to conduct it for me?

Thank you for ur help

[mulderpf]

Also guys my friend has just graduated this year and want to apply for post study but he hasn't got his uni certificate to proof he has a uni qualification. Any ideas what he should do ?

Your friend just needs a letter from the Uni confirming/certifying his name, course details, when he started and when his course ended, plus when he would be having his graduation ceremony.

I would be very careful of this. As per Kan (Post-Study Work – degree award required) India [2009] UKAIT 00022 the determination was:

The requirement of paragraph 245Z and paragraphs 51 to 55 of Appendix A of HC 395 as amended is that in order to be entitled to points the applicant must have been awarded the requisite qualification in respect of which points are claimed. It is not sufficient to show that the qualification will be awarded. The language used in the Tier 1 (Post-Study Work) of the Points Based System – Policy Guidance in indicating what documents are required as evidence of the award, supports this view.

AFAIK, you cannot simply send a letter saying he will get the qualification - he has to send them the actual qualification.

[Greenie]

Also guys my friend has just graduated this year and want to apply for post study but he hasn't got his uni certificate to proof he has a uni qualification. Any ideas what he should do ?

Your friend just needs a letter from the Uni confirming/certifying his name, course details, when he started and when his course ended, plus when he would be having his graduation ceremony.

I would be very careful of this. As per Kan (Post-Study Work – degree award required) India [2009] UKAIT 00022 the determination was:

The requirement of paragraph 245Z and paragraphs 51 to 55 of Appendix A of HC 395 as amended is that in order to be entitled to points the applicant must have been awarded the requisite qualification in respect of which points are claimed. It is not sufficient to show that the qualification will be awarded. The language used in the Tier 1 (Post-Study Work) of the Points Based System – Policy Guidance in indicating what documents are required as evidence of the award, supports this view.

AFAIK, you cannot simply send a letter saying he will get the qualification - he has to send them the actual qualification.

As long as the person has been awarded the degree, they can apply for PSW, if they have not yet had the graduation ceremony, and therefore do not have their degree certificate, they have to get a letter from their institution confirming the degree has been awarded and when the certificate willl be issued.

[arsenal49]

if UKBA, at the time of processing your application, concludes (based on the evidence infront of him/her) that you have NOT been awarded your degree yet, then im afraid you will not be successful in your psw application.Period

[ddb]

What does CoS means?

Certificate of Sponsorship

so even if they use their allocation I still can be sponsored????? cant i ?

According to the sponsors guidance, a sponsor is given a number of CoS allocations annually. For example, if your company has 10 CoS allocations in one year and they assign them to ten employees that year, then they've used up their allocations for that year. If, for example, by the time your psw is about to expire, and in that allocation year they are/have been given their regular number of allocations; they might assign just 9 CoS's to nine employees which leaves them with 1 unused. That unused one can then be assigned to you to use.
Note though, that the company can also request for an increase in their allocations but they'll have to justify their request.

What about the labour market test ? do they need to conduct it for me?

No, they will not have to conduct a Resident Labour Market Test (RLMT) if you have been in the company's employment for a minimum of 6 months.

[linux44]

Also guys my friend has just graduated this year and want to apply for post study but he hasn't got his uni certificate to proof he has a uni qualification. Any ideas what he should do ?

Your friend just needs a letter from the Uni confirming/certifying his name, course details, when he started and when his course ended, plus when he would be having his graduation ceremony.

I would be very careful of this. As per Kan (Post-Study Work – degree award required) India [2009] UKAIT 00022 the determination was:

The requirement of paragraph 245Z and paragraphs 51 to 55 of Appendix A of HC 395 as amended is that in order to be entitled to points the applicant must have been awarded the requisite qualification in respect of which points are claimed. It is not sufficient to show that the qualification will be awarded. The language used in the Tier 1 (Post-Study Work) of the Points Based System – Policy Guidance in indicating what documents are required as evidence of the award, supports this view.

AFAIK, you cannot simply send a letter saying he will get the qualification - he has to send them the actual qualification.

As long as the person has been awarded the degree, they can apply for PSW, if they have not yet had the graduation ceremony, and therefore do not have their degree certificate, they have to get a letter from their institution confirming the degree has been awarded and when the certificate willl be issued.

I agree that a letter should be sufficent as I look at the policy document and it state what can be used instead of the degree certificate if it is not available.

Thanks guys really appreciate the help.

I will welcome any other suggestion from any one else.

thank u again

[ddb]

Your friend just needs a letter from the Uni confirming/certifying his name, course details, when he started and when his course ended, plus when he would be having his graduation ceremony.

AFAIK, you cannot simply send a letter saying he will get the qualification - he has to send them the actual qualification.

If you read through the post again I made no suggestion of simply sending a letter saying that he will get the qualification. Please refer to the OP question again. Thanks.

Also guys my friend has just graduated this year and want to apply for post study but he hasn't got his uni certificate to proof he has a uni qualification. Any ideas what he should do ?

[mulderpf]

You are only awarded a qualification upon graduation. Even if you have passed your course, you have no qualification until graduation. If the friend doesn't have a certificate, it probably means he has passed, not actually graduated yet (or he was absent at graduation).

If he has in fact graduated, then he must ask for the degree certificate, not a letter.

[Greenie]

You are only awarded a qualification upon graduation. Even if you have passed your course, you have no qualification until graduation. If the friend doesn't have a certificate, it probably means he has passed, not actually graduated yet (or he was absent at graduation).

If he has in fact graduated, then he must ask for the degree certificate, not a letter.

wrong. try reading the post study work guidance.

you are awarded the qualification when the exam board sits and writes to the canditate to tell them they have been awarded the qualification. this is also the relevent date of award that the UKBA take into account when deciding whether someone is applying within a year of being awarded the degree.

the graduation ceremony is merely a ceremony at which the certificate is issued. It is perfectly possible for an applicant to apply for PSW without their certificate as long as they have been awarded the degree. This is clearly explained in the PSW guidance. They only need to provide the certificate if they have already been issued it (i.e graduation has already taken place).

[ddb]

You are only awarded a qualification upon graduation.

Pardon me, but this is incorrect. You are awarded a qualification by an institution, when said Institution is satisfied that you have met all the requirements for attaining a specific qualification (e.g. achieving required attendance rate, submitting course works,successfully passing course exams, etc). The graduation ceremony is a formal event done in celebration on attaining the specific qualification and to be given a certificate as proof.

[ddb]

Apologies Greenie . Just seen that you'd made the correction/clarification upon hitting the submit button from my end .

[linux44]

Guys I have post a question about the new role


here:
Topic is discussed here http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=79834

I am starting to get woried and think that this could make matters even more difficult.
Do u think where it says, the tier 2 will become more of a short temp visa and the goverment wants to break the link between 5 years of tier 2 and permanent settlement, will make it easier to obtain tier 2 sponsor?

on the other side it says they are thinking of a maximum of 5 years for tier2 after which the person has to leave the UK, what about if by the end of 5 years, amount of time spend by me in the UK is more than 10 years legally? Can I apply for settelment then ?


and finally, where it says they may create a new category for exceptional people to join it after 3 years which allows them to settle, do u think by exceptional they are talking about graduate level jobs? or something higher?


btw, my mate has asked his uni and he is going to get his cert 3-6 weeks after the release of his results

thanks