Application about to be refused due to lack of insurance.

[puzzledpole]

Hi all, I am polish and I came to UK in 2004. I was working for an English company for 3 years before going to Uni, I was studying here full time for a 4 year period (220 days ow which I spend in US on abroad program). I applied for naturalisation and I just got the letter to provide comprehensive sickness insurance for cover of my studies. This came as a shock to me as I always thought that being a permanent resident of UK I am being covered by NHS. I even made a big fuss about it in Uni GP when I first joined and they said that I don't need any other insurance as I will be a full time student. I didn't think much of it till just now, when my application is about to be refused due to something I wasn't made aware off for 4 years. (I have been to doctors few times during that period, noone ask or said a thing).

Long story short, can someone tell me if its a definite thing that I will get my application refused due to that fact?

[Jambo]

I admit the requirement of having CSI is a bit confusing. Under UK rules, you are entitled to free NHS as you are a resident. However, under EEA regulations, in order to obtain a Permanent Residence status you are required to have CSI (if student of self sufficient). The GPs are not experts in immigration rules and as far as they are concerned you are eligible.

There are a few ways to get exempt from this requirement:

1. Have you applied for Residence Certificate (EEA1) as a student? You did not have to but if you did before June 2011, that would exempt you.

2. Are you able to provide a Polish EHIC (health card) to cover your student years (or at least 2007-2009)? This is accepted as CSI.

3. Are you married to a EEA national who worked during your student year?

[puzzledpole]

First of all thank you for your answer, I must admit I am still very unsettled and upset about that letter. I have been exercising a Treaty rights as a worked for more than a year and then I did pay £50 for registration in Worker Registration Scheme. After that I have always been told, by my university or my GP that as a permanent resident and EEA national I am entitled to NHS health cover and I don't need to purchase any additional insurance. Because of that I cannot fill any of the exemptions criteria you have listed here I remember that I have been giving my polish national insurance to GP (polish magnetic chip card) when I registered by, and from what I remember I had a card from Poland that looked like this: http://www.nfz.gov.pl/new/photo/1815/ekuz_awers.gif but it expired and I tossed it away Is there any chance that under some discretion they may approve my application or not?

[Jambo]

Bingo! That's the card. Maybe If you could get a letter from the health authorities in Poland confirming they issued the card to you and specify the period it covered or if by any chance the GP photocopied the card, that might work. It will need to cover the years 2007-2009 as for 2004-2007 it is not required as you were in employment.

[puzzledpole]

I'm sure it wont. It is issued for a year or so and I only had one. Anyway I swear to god if they reject it I am going to sue. I know it's not America but as per any legal contract the rules apply. Any ambiguity in the paragraph serves the person who did not draft it. I am just a citizen, not an immigration expert, I should have been told about this when I started University!!!

[Jambo]

Who do you want to sue?

The university or the GP didn't do anything wrong. You don't need insurance to obtain NHS treatment. You do need it if you would like to obtain a Permanent Residence status which is a requirement for naturalisation. It is your decision to apply for naturalisation and if you do, you need to meet the ruquirements.

The rules also require you not to have more than 450 days of absence in 5 years. Would you also sue if you have been absent more than 450 days just because no one told you the requirements?

[puzzledpole]

No, this requirements are clearly stated in the AN guide, but extra insurance, on top of NHS is not. I would never waste 800quid to find that out. And I wont sue, I will appeal to the decision, if that fails I will ask for a whole refund of the fees as this is beyond stupid.

[Jambo]

No, this requirements are clearly stated in the AN guide, but extra insurance, on top of NHS is not.

Yes it is (at least in the form).

SECTION 4 Evidence of settlement for applicants from Switzerland or the European Economic Area see page 8 - 10
of the Booklet AN
• Your valid passport or valid national identity card as evidence of your nationality.
• Evidence of exercising Treaty Rights for 5 years.
• Confirmation of tax payment for individuals who are self-employed / business person:
• Confirmation of enrolment of course for Students
• Evidence of funds and comprehensive sickness insurance for self sufficient persons and students
• Evidence of state pension (not occupational pension) for retired person.
• Medical report for incapacitated applicant.

I understand your frustration. In the past the HO didn't insist on having CSI for students but they do now.

[ElKittyKato]

I have a similar situation to puzzledpole.

I was a full time student between 2005 and 2009, and then in full time employment until today.
During my time at uni, I was temping here and there every summer and ofter during winter break (legally) - but never made more then few thousand a year in total (so my tax was always refunded).

I have also checked back in 2005 how it works re: my health insurance as a student.
I was told in Polish department of health (like NHS), that I'm linked to my Dad's insurance, as I am his dependant in full time education and under 26 years old - and every EU country should recognise my eligibility for any treatment.

Funnily enough I don't think I even visited GP once during my student years, as I was healthy, and any medical issues that were not very urgent I solved by flying back home for 3-4 days.

I wasn't expecting this sudden change of rules regarding the health insurance. If I knew about it, I would arrange and keep all the relevant paper work.
I didn't think the law can apply backwards? Seems silly. If they make a change of rules like that, it should only apply to students that were actually studing after 2011!

I'm not sure if there is a point of me applying...or perhaps they would accept some official statement from Polish NHS?

[Jambo]

I didn't think the law can apply backwards? Seems silly. If they make a change of rules like that, it should only apply to students that were actually studing after 2011!

You are right. The law can't be applied backwards. However, the relevant regulations are in place since 2006. The HO only started to enforce the regulations and insist on CSI for students in 2011. That is why they are giving exemptions if you applied before 2011.

Instead of applying directly for BC and risking the £800 fee, it's better to apply for PR confirmation using form EEA3 as the application is free although you will still face the same issues of missing CSI.

[ElKittyKato]

Thank you Jambo for your response.

One more question - if I get a positive response using EEA3, do I have to wait any longer in order to apply for the citizenship?
And would the whole process be any quicker because of the PR confirmation?

I will try to get a confirmation letter from Polish NHS confirming my insurance. I'm guessing I don't have to translate it to English, as long as I explain what it says in the letter? Certified translations can be costly.

Also, during my time at Uni, I was an unmarried partner of EU citizen working full time for many years (we got married in 2009) - does it change anything? Would that link me to his insurance somehow, or classify me as a dependant (and not self-sufficient student)?

Thank you very much in advance for any suggestions.

[Jambo]

One more question - if I get a positive response using EEA3, do I have to wait any longer in order to apply for the citizenship?
And would the whole process be any quicker because of the PR confirmation?

If you get a PR confirmation following the EEA3 application, you have two options:

1. Wait 12 months and apply without providing the evidence again.
2. Apply immediately but in this case you will need to provide the evidence again.

The reason is that PR confirmation following EEA3 just confirms that based on the evidence provided, you hold PR status on date of issue (some time in 2012 if you apply now). It doesn't say when you obtained the PR status. To be able to apply for BC, you need to have PR for at least 1 year so you need to show your PR was obtained 1 year before application is made.

If you wait 1 year, then the PR confirmation is your proof.

If you don't wait, you need to provide evidence to show it (it might be the same evidence you used for EEA3. It doesn't matter. You need to provide it again). However, if the HO was happy with the evidence for the EEA3, it likely to satisfy them for the naturalisation application.

Having PR doesn't affect the naturalisation process time.

I will try to get a confirmation letter from Polish NHS confirming my insurance. I'm guessing I don't have to translate it to English, as long as I explain what it says in the letter? Certified translations can be costly.

Send it with your own translation/explanation. Worse case, they will send it back and ask for a translation.

Also, during my time at Uni, I was an unmarried partner of EU citizen working full time for many years (we got married in 2009) - does it change anything? Would that link me to his insurance somehow, or classify me as a dependant (and not self-sufficient student)?

That's another option. As a worker, your husband and you don't need CSI. However, if the HO would recognise your time before marriage is not certain. But this could be an option if you won't be able to get proof from the Polish NHS for your student years.

[ElKittyKato]

Just called up Polish NHS, they can give me an official statement I was fully insured from birth until the end of my studies, and that insurance was fully valid within the EU, including UK.
Hopefully that should be enough to prove my CSI?

What about the evidence of funds for that period?
I don't think I have the bank statements from that time - how do I prove the sufficient funds?

Could I just say I was financially dependant on my partner? We had joint account together since May 2006. It's not likely that the bank would give me an account summary of the last 5 years, but I can try and ask.

Thank you for any suggestions.

[Jambo]

For the insurance cover - better to get the Polish NHS to issue a letter that specify your student years rather than something which might look like a generic letter. Also, I would mention in a cover letter that instead of producing a EHIC from Poland, you enclose a statement from the Polish health authorities confirming your medial insurance during your student years.

As for the funding - for the student years, it's simple. All that is required is a signed declaration by you stating that during the time as a student you had enough fund to maintain yourself (you can specify a figure if you wish) and you didn't rely on public funds. There is no need to provide proof to back up the statement. The statement is enough.

[ElKittyKato]

You are an absolute star Jambo! Thank you very much for your help!

[elliass]

[quote="Jambo"]I admit the requirement of having CSI is a bit confusing. Under UK rules, you are entitled to free NHS as you are a resident. However, under EEA regulations, in order to obtain a Permanent Residence status you are required to have CSI (if student of self sufficient). The GPs are not experts in immigration rules and as far as they are concerned you are eligible.

There are a few ways to get exempt from this requirement:

1. Have you applied for Residence Certificate (EEA1) as a student? You did not have to but if you did before June 2011, that would exempt you.

2. Are you able to provide a Polish EHIC (health card) to cover your student years (or at least 2007-2009)? This is accepted as CSI.

Hi, could you please tell me what does CSI stand for? as I applied for BC a few months ago as I am married to BC and I was a student when I got married between year Oct/2008 - May/2011.

I have a NHS card but I don't have CSI even I dont know that there is a card or registration as CSI. I am not from EU; I am from Asia. I know that when I got married I asked NHS to change my address on my card to my wife's house.

Do you think that HO could ask me about CSI?

[Jambo]

Hi, could you please tell me what does CSI stand for? as I applied for BC a few months ago as I am married to BC and I was a student when I got married between year Oct/2008 - May/2011.

I have a NHS card but I don't have CSI even I dont know that there is a card or registration as CSI. I am not from EU; I am from Asia. I know that when I got married I asked NHS to change my address on my card to my wife's house.

Do you think that HO could ask me about CSI?

CSI stands for Comprehensive Sickness Insurance and is required for certains categories under the EEA regulations (people under EU "visa"). It is not applicable in your case.

[elliass]

Hi, could you please tell me what does CSI stand for? as I applied for BC a few months ago as I am married to BC and I was a student when I got married between year Oct/2008 - May/2011.

I have a NHS card but I don't have CSI even I dont know that there is a card or registration as CSI. I am not from EU; I am from Asia. I know that when I got married I asked NHS to change my address on my card to my wife's house.

Do you think that HO could ask me about CSI?

CSI stands for Comprehensive Sickness Insurance and is required for certains categories under the EEA regulations (people under EU "visa"). It is not applicable in your case.

Thank you very much for your reply Jumbo

[countvronsky]

For the insurance cover - better to get the Polish NHS to issue a letter that specify your student years rather than something which might look like a generic letter. Also, I would mention in a cover letter that instead of producing a EHIC from Poland, you enclose a statement from the Polish health authorities confirming your medial insurance during your student years.

Hi there,
Just looking through this very useful forum. I'm in exactly the same situation - EU citizen (Slovenia), I was a student for 3 out of 5 years. I did have EHIC insurance for the whole time, but threw away the cards, apart from the last one. Did giving Home Office a letter from the Polish NHS work? I'm thinking of trying that strategy...
Thank you ever so much!