Travel to Europe (Czech republic via Frankfurt or Zurich)

[ATAPCP]

Hi There,
I find this forum extremely helpful and finally I thought I would post something in relation to my issue.

I will first outline what my status is in UK and what I have on BRP card.

National :- Non EU
Relationship:- Civil Partnership in January 2012
Partner:- British Citizen
Leave:- Discretionary Leave to Remain for 3 years
BRP Card:- shows Leave to Remain (type of permit), Remarks 1:- Work permitted, Remarks 2:- (EMPTY)

My query now is that me and my partner want to travel to Czech republic and the cheapest flights available are through either Frankfurt or Zurich.
Therefore:-
Do I need Schengan visa to travel to Czech republic?
Do I need Transit visa to travel via Germany or Switzerland (just catching connecting flight)?
Can I travel without a visa as I am a family member of EU citizen (CP)?
Any input would be appreciated.

I have asked Czech Embassy and they have said ok but not sure they understood that the resident permit does not mention family member of EEA national.
German embassy has not responded.

Many Thanks

[olujay25]

Yes you will need a schengen visa to Czech your Czech visa should cover you for a passage into any schengen states. As Czech is where you are spending most of your holiday/final destination. You only need to apply for your schengen visa at the Czech embassy and it covers you for travel through any schengen states. I hope this does help and answer your query.

[ATAPCP]

Olujay25
Thank you for your reply,
So does it mean that even though I am a civil partner of British Citizen I still cannot travel to EU without visa. Is it due to residence permit not mentioning the Family member?
Also that there is no transit visa required?
Thank you for your help on this.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

Correct, the type of residence permit does not except you from visa requirement for travel.

[fysicus]

As you plan to travel together, the Schengenvisa should be issued free of charge, and without the usual financial conditions, such as travel insurance.

Of course, having proper travel insurance is always highly recommended, but it should not play a role in the visa application process.

Your passport (and visa) will only be checked at the airport where you enter the Schengen area, whether that is in Germany or Switzerland or Czech.

[ATAPCP]

Thank you for that.
However the conflicting information I am getting from the embassies and europa direct is what's worrying me.

Czech embassy has again confirmed that I can travel there visa free if I travel i directly there:-
They directed me towards what's posted on their website.......

Family members of EU citizens, who have a permanent or temporary residence permit in the UK

15.03.2011 / 14:00

Visa free travel for family members of EU citizens - holders of permanent or temporary residence permit in the UK.

A family member of an EU citizen is allowed to stay in the Czech Republic up to 90 days without a visa if she/he holds a temporary or permanent residence permit in the United Kingdom.

Who is considered to be a family member of an EU citizen:

a) a spouse,

b) a parent - in the case of an EU citizen under 21 years of age and who is being taken care of by such parent and with whom he/she lives in a common household,

c) a child under 21 years of age or such a child of an EU citizen's spouse,

d) a direct dependent relative in the ascending or descending family line or such relative of an EU citizen's spouse (students only up to 26 years).

The visa free access will be applied by the Czech alien police in a comparable manner to aliens who can credibly prove that they are in a family relationship with an EU citizen that is not specified above if:
a) they live in a common household with an EU citizen, or
b) they are financially supported by an EU citizen, or
c) they cannot care for themselves without the personal care provided by an EU citizen due to a chronic adverse health condition.

The visa free access will be applied by the Czech alien police in a comparable manner also to aliens who can credibly prove that they are in a permanent relationship with an EU citizen that is comparable to a family relationship and that they share a common household.

Entry to the territory of the Czech Republic

The status of a family member of an EU citizen is checked by the Alien Police at the border. Therefore it is necessary to submit:

1) temporary or permanent residence permit in the United Kingdom,

2) a proof of the relationship with an EU citizen (e.g. original birth, marriage or civil partnership certificate – written in an EU language or with a translation),

3) a proof of the citizenship of your EU partner (e.g. ID or passport – copy or original).

The visa free rule applies even if travelling to the Czech Republic without the attendance of an EU citizen.

Be aware, that this only applies when travelling directly to the Czech Republic.

When travelling to the Czech Republic through/via another country, please check with the appropriate Embassy or Consulate if you require a visa for that country. Each countries rules differ and you may be required to apply for a visa.

That confuses me even more as German embassy website says I have to have a schengan visa for czech republic however Czech republic says I dont need visa.

Transit visa is the only thing required for Germany.

I am so confused. I appreciate input of you guys however still need clarification I think!!!!

[Jambo]

The terminology used by the Czech embassy is what confuses you.

When they say "holders of permanent or temporary residence permit in the UK", they mean holders of Residence Card issued under the EEA regulations (Directive 2004/38/EC of free movement) and not permits issued under the UK national rules.

As your visa was issued under the UK immigrations rules, you don't meet the requirement for a visa free travel. However, you are eligible for a free visa.

The German Consulate explains it better. See the second point - here and the examples on the right hand side.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

Thank you for that.
However the conflicting information I am getting from the embassies and europa direct is what's worrying me.

Czech embassy has again confirmed that I can travel there visa free if I travel i directly there:-
They directed me towards what's posted on their website.......

Family members of EU citizens, who have a permanent or temporary residence permit in the UK

15.03.2011 / 14:00

Visa free travel for family members of EU citizens - holders of permanent or temporary residence permit in the UK.

A family member of an EU citizen is allowed to stay in the Czech Republic up to 90 days without a visa if she/he holds a temporary or permanent residence permit in the United Kingdom.

Who is considered to be a family member of an EU citizen:

a) a spouse,

b) a parent - in the case of an EU citizen under 21 years of age and who is being taken care of by such parent and with whom he/she lives in a common household,

c) a child under 21 years of age or such a child of an EU citizen's spouse,

d) a direct dependent relative in the ascending or descending family line or such relative of an EU citizen's spouse (students only up to 26 years).

The visa free access will be applied by the Czech alien police in a comparable manner to aliens who can credibly prove that they are in a family relationship with an EU citizen that is not specified above if:
a) they live in a common household with an EU citizen, or
b) they are financially supported by an EU citizen, or
c) they cannot care for themselves without the personal care provided by an EU citizen due to a chronic adverse health condition.

The visa free access will be applied by the Czech alien police in a comparable manner also to aliens who can credibly prove that they are in a permanent relationship with an EU citizen that is comparable to a family relationship and that they share a common household.

Entry to the territory of the Czech Republic

The status of a family member of an EU citizen is checked by the Alien Police at the border. Therefore it is necessary to submit:

1) temporary or permanent residence permit in the United Kingdom,

2) a proof of the relationship with an EU citizen (e.g. original birth, marriage or civil partnership certificate – written in an EU language or with a translation),

3) a proof of the citizenship of your EU partner (e.g. ID or passport – copy or original).

The visa free rule applies even if travelling to the Czech Republic without the attendance of an EU citizen.

Be aware, that this only applies when travelling directly to the Czech Republic.

When travelling to the Czech Republic through/via another country, please check with the appropriate Embassy or Consulate if you require a visa for that country. Each countries rules differ and you may be required to apply for a visa.

That confuses me even more as German embassy website says I have to have a schengan visa for czech republic however Czech republic says I dont need visa.

Transit visa is the only thing required for Germany.

I am so confused. I appreciate input of you guys however still need clarification I think!!!!

Could you provide the link the page where you found that information please?

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

Ok, I found it...

http://www.mzv.cz/london/en/visa_and_co ... rs_of.html

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

The terminology used by the Czech embassy is what confuses you.

When they say "holders of permanent or temporary residence permit in the UK", they mean holders of Residence Card issued under the EEA regulations (Directive 2004/38/EC of free movement) and not permits issued under the UK national rules.

As your visa was issued under the UK immigrations rules, you don't meet the requirement for a visa free travel. However, you are eligible for a free visa.

The German Consulate explains it better. See the second point - here and the examples on the right hand side.

Jambo may be completely correct, but there may be another possibility.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

I wonder does the Czech republic operate with slightly differing rules to other Schengen states. In general the Shengen visa regulations do not govern to freedom of movement cases; the directive does. If the Czech republic decided to allow family members of UK citizens who do not have article 10 cards, then that might be their prerogative.

It is interesting that IATA has different wording for the Czech republic that for other Shengen members. Compare:

Czech Republic "or holders of a "family member"residence permit issued by United Kingdom to a family member (spouse, legal partner, child younger than 21 years or dependent direct relative in the descending or ascending line) of a national of an EEA Member State or Switzerland;"

Germany "Those, irrespective of nationality, for a max. stay of 90 days, holding "family member" residence permit issued by United Kingdom to a family member of an EEA national or national of Switzerland, provided travelling with or travelling to join the EEA national or national of Switzerland. "

Spain "A max. stay of 3 months for those, irrespective of nationality, holding "family member" residence permit issued by United Kingdom to a family member of an EEA national or national of Switzerland, provided travelling with or travelling to join the EEA national or national of Switzerland."

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

If I were in OP's position, I would be tempted to email a scan of the residence permit and ask if it would be acceptable.

[zubby007]

[quote="ATAPCP"]Hi There,
I find this forum extremely helpful and finally I thought I would post something in relation to my issue.

I will first outline what my status is in UK and what I have on BRP card.

National :- Non EU
Relationship:- Civil Partnership in January 2012
Partner:- British Citizen
Leave:- Discretionary Leave to Remain for 3 years
BRP Card:- shows [b]Leave to Remain (type of permit)[/b], [b]Remarks 1:- Work permitted, Remarks 2:- (EMPTY)[/b]

My query now is that me and my partner want to travel to Czech republic and the cheapest flights available are through either Frankfurt or Zurich.
Therefore:-
Do I need Schengan visa to travel to Czech republic?
Do I need Transit visa to travel via Germany or Switzerland (just catching connecting flight)?
Can I travel without a visa as I am a family member of EU citizen (CP)?
Any input would be appreciated.

I have asked Czech Embassy and they have said ok but not sure they understood that the resident permit does not mention family member of EEA national.
German embassy has not responded.

Many Thanks[/quote]

Mate, I personally will advice you to apply for a Schengen Visa at Czech Rep. Embassy, coz I have gone that kind of stressful journey it doesn't worth it really, and if you're unlucky to meet bad IO at point of entry I promise you, you will spend hours sorting out and arranging documents from birth to marriage and so on.
but with Schengen visa you do not need to carry a briefcase full of documents. best of luck

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

Mate, I personally will advice you to apply for a Schengen Visa at Czech Rep. Embassy, coz I have gone that kind of stressful journey it doesn't worth it really, and if you're unlucky to meet bad IO at point of entry I promise you, you will spend hours sorting out and arranging documents from birth to marriage and so on.
but with Schengen visa you do not need to carry a briefcase full of documents. best of luck

This is what my original advice was as well, but if the Czech embassy says differently, then I'd be open to traveling without. I'd be careful of what the embassy's website says in case it's not well written.

[ATAPCP]

Agree EUsmile,
I don't want the hassle at the point of entry.
Therefore have decided to get the schengen visa.
But then I run into another thing.
Czech embassy has following advice for non eu nationals - family members of UK citizen who have no residence permit to do the following.

"Family members of EU/EEA citizens who do not have a temporary or permanent residence in the UK and require visas can apply without prior appointment either at the Czech Embassy in London (between 9am to 12pm) or by post (prepaid self-adressed envelope is required). It is also possible to apply for a visa on arrival, at the border crossing point."

So I have written to Czech embassy again to ask if:-

1. Can I send postal application?
2. Would I be admitted into the embassy without prior appointment between 9 am to 12.00 pm?

Question is would they refuse me the schengen visa saying that I do not need it as per their guidelines?

[zubby007]

Hi if they refused you, you can apply also from over 15 Schengen member States, good luck.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

Hi if they refused you, you can apply also from over 15 Schengen member States, good luck.

No, the visit is for the Czech republic so an application should not be made at one of the other Schengen states.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

Agree EUsmile,
I don't want the hassle at the point of entry.
Therefore have decided to get the schengen visa.
But then I run into another thing.
Czech embassy has following advice for non eu nationals - family members of UK citizen who have no residence permit to do the following.

"Family members of EU/EEA citizens who do not have a temporary or permanent residence in the UK and require visas can apply without prior appointment either at the Czech Embassy in London (between 9am to 12pm) or by post (prepaid self-adressed envelope is required). It is also possible to apply for a visa on arrival, at the border crossing point."

So I have written to Czech embassy again to ask if:-

1. Can I send postal application?
2. Would I be admitted into the embassy without prior appointment between 9 am to 12.00 pm?

Question is would they refuse me the schengen visa saying that I do not need it as per their guidelines?

I doubt they would refuse you - postal or personal visit.

If you're going to go to that much trouble, why don't you email the embassy a scan of your UK permit and ask if it could be used for travel? You might save yourself a visit.

[zubby007]

[quote="EUsmileWEallsmile"][quote="zubby007"]Hi if they refused you, you can apply also from over 15 Schengen member States, good luck.[/quote]

No, the visit is for the Czech republic so an application should not be made at one of the other Schengen states.[/quote]


In my own opinion, it doesn't matter what matters is the Schengen visa allows you to travel to Schengen member States including Czech republic, So please educate me if I'm wrong.thanks

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

Hi if they refused you, you can apply also from over 15 Schengen member States, good luck.

No, the visit is for the Czech republic so an application should not be made at one of the other Schengen states.

In my own opinion, it doesn't matter what matters is the Schengen visa allows you to travel to Schengen member States including Czech republic, So please educate me if I'm wrong.thanks

There are rules for applying for Schengen visas. One must in general apply to the country where you intend to spend the most time. If you try another country that you do not intend visiting, they would be entitled to decline the application.

[zubby007]

[quote="EUsmileWEallsmile"][quote="zubby007"][quote="EUsmileWEallsmile"][quote="zubby007"]Hi if they refused you, you can apply also from over 15 Schengen member States, good luck.[/quote]

No, the visit is for the Czech republic so an application should not be made at one of the other Schengen states.[/quote]


In my own opinion, it doesn't matter what matters is the Schengen visa allows you to travel to Schengen member States including Czech republic, So please educate me if I'm wrong.thanks[/quote]

There are rules for applying for Schengen visas. One must in general apply to the country where you intend to spend the most time. If you try another country that you do not intend visiting, they would be entitled to decline the application.[/quote]

Got it, regards.

[ATAPCP]

Hi EUsmileWEallsmile,
I took your advice and sent an email to the Czech embassy and have received following advice.

Dear Sir/Madam, I have query in regards to Schengen visa for my civil partner (Non- EU National Indian). Just to confirm:- I am a British Citizen My partner is Indian National who has been granted Discretionary Leave to Remain in UK outside the immigration rules. His Temporary residence permit does not mention that he is a family member of EEA national however we have had civil partnership done in UK in January 2012. He has not had any Schengen visa issued prior to this. We plan to travel together through Frankfurt (only for connecting flight and not going out of the airport). Therefore, my query is and as per your website "Family members of EU/EEA citizens who do not have a temporary or permanent residence in the UK and require visas can apply without prior appointment either at the Czech Embassy in London (between 9am to 12pm) or by post (prepaid self-adressed envelope is required). It is also possible to apply for a visa on arrival, at the border crossing point." That as he is my family member :- Can he apply for visa by post? If yes what is the address and how long will the visa take? If we do come in person to the embassy do we need appointment? How long will the visa take to be issued? Your help in this matter will be greatly appreciated. Many Thanks

Reply:-

Hello,
please refer to the info: http://www.mzv.cz/london/en/visa_and_co ... rs_of.html

Best Regards

Second query sent with scan of BRP as below:-

Dear Sir/Madam, Following on from below please see attached the scanned copy of my partner's Biometric Residence Permit. This will clarify on to why I am asking these queries. Please do let me know. Many Thanks

Reply to the second email:-

Hello,
please refer to the info:

http://www.mzv.cz/london/en/visa_and_co ... rs_of.html

The family member is visa free when having the temporary/permanent residency permit, it should not mentioned that he is family member of EEA. He must prove his status at the border. It applies when travelling directly to the Czech Republic, When crossing other schengen countries, than contact the appropriate embassies for their requirements on family members.
Best Regards

From their second response I gather that if I travel direct there will be no issues at all. However if I travel through any other schengen country then I would need a visa.

Does it sound right?????

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

The problem with flying via other schengen is that you would enter the schengen zone there.

It is very interesting what the Czech embassy said about flying direct. If you got back to them and said that you will be spending time in their country and entering Shengen state (Germany) would the issue you with the visa. They should. It will be issued free in your case.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

This is what IATA says (not always 100% accurate, but a good starting) point when Indian visits Czech rep via Germany.

Visa Germany Visa required. Visa Exemptions

Those, irrespective of nationality, for a max. stay of 90 days, holding "family member" residence permit issued by United Kingdom to a family member of an EEA national or national of Switzerland, provided travelling with or travelling to join the EEA national or national of Switzerland.

Visa Czech Rep. The passenger is arriving on a domestic or common border area flight and no immigration regulations apply for this segment. See Entry Requirements for previous segment.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

This is the link to their website (IATA)

http://www.iatatravelcentre.com/home.htm