Victims of ETS Scam

Obie · Post by **Obie** » Sat Dec 20, 2014 11:54 pm

What is the personal circumstance of your brother?

Does he have wife or family in the UK?

He will need to seek urgent Judicial review of the decision.

He should not withdraw any judicial review, and you should seek your cost from UKBA.

It is outrageous how they do things like this.

It look like they have been doing a bit of a digging to refuse.

K4 · Post by K4 » Sun Dec 21, 2014 12:55 am

Copied from Glyndwr University's website link is available to the page(A word document is attached on their page)

http://moodle.glyndwr.ac.uk/course/view ... section=16

"Other TOEIC certificates and results have been withdrawn by ETS because the tests took place at test centres where deceptive and fraudulent practices were known to have taken place on an organised basis and on a significant scale and those tests cannot therefore be relied upon."

so if someone took their own test but the center was involved in fraud the certs are also invalid?

this is total bull

aaliya1986 · Post by **aaliya1986** » Wed Dec 24, 2014 6:02 pm

whoever has done or was involved in doing the ETS english test shall be sent back home.

the only question posed to these people shall be. 'why did you do a toeic test when you could have done ielts?

it takes the same time and it is worldwide accepted. why take a test (toeic) which no one knows of?
go on the street and ask people about ets toeic and ielts. one will know which is better.

from what was seen on tv and read on the forums, everyone involved in this KNEW that they are cheating the system.

Because of these students who are originally Economic Migrants rather than Genuine Students; must be sent back home on the first flight so that genuine students do not come under scrutiny.
because of this scam, admissions process has gone tough, immigration matters have gone more complex, everything is just getting more complex day by day.
a student is involved in more immigration matters rather than study which is only because of these things.

there should have been a hardline taken on this. home office is still doing less in terms of removing those involved.

furthermore the scam would not have been limited to the student visa route. definitely it would have been a wider scam and involved in other routes aswell. every single person involved must be interviewed, convicted, and removed to serve a sentence in their countries.

this will then be fair on all the genuine immigrants and the people of this country.

searoze · Post by **searoze** » Sun Dec 28, 2014 10:17 pm

whoever has done or was involved in doing the ETS english test shall be sent back home.

LOL Would you mind giving any reason for that ? ETS was an approved qualification till 1st July 2014.

"On 10 June 2014 a change to the Immigration Rules and Nationality Regulations to remove
ETS from the approved list of English language test suppliers was laid before Parliament.
This will come into effect on 1 July 2014".
Please see here

If you say "who ever done or was involved in deception shall be sent back home" seems fair to me

the only question posed to these people shall be. 'why did you do a toeic test when you could have done ielts?

Number of factors or one of those could be involved
Available dates and centres
Fee
Passport as ID (one cannot sit for IELTS with out a valid passport).

it takes the same time and it is worldwide accepted. why take a test (toeic) which no one knows of?
go on the street and ask people about ets toeic and ielts. one will know which is better.

If you have spare time then please go ahead and do that. Do not forget to post the survey results here
So Simple, It was accepted by the UKVI (before 1st July 2014) so no point to argue " Why take test TOEIC "

from what was seen on tv and read on the forums, everyone involved in this KNEW that they are cheating the system.

Not everyone who actually sit for the test. But the management who did not bother to record and upload the original candidate's voice but a pre recorded voice.

Because of these students who are originally Economic Migrants rather than Genuine Students; must be sent back home on the first flight so that genuine students do not come under scrutiny.

Leave it to UKVI. They already doing this so you shudnt be bothered at all. Just pray for your own application that is still pending with UKVI. (Wish you good luck, I even wish you dont be a victim of that SCRUTINY

)

because of this scam, admissions process has gone tough, immigration matters have gone more complex, everything is just getting more complex day by day.

Totally disagree, after this scam the only change is to interview students that I believe should be the 1st step towards admission.

a student is involved in more immigration matters rather than study which is only because of these things.

I assure you these complex immigration matters are not because of this matter. It is same since 2004 at least.

there should have been a hardline taken on this. home office is still doing less in terms of removing those involved.

Totally agree. Not only who took the test but those who arranged or helped arranging those fake tests.

aaliya1986 · Post by **aaliya1986** » Mon Dec 29, 2014 1:41 am

searoze wrote:
aaliya1986 wrote: whoever has done or was involved in doing the ETS english test shall be sent back home.
LOL Would you mind giving any reason for that ? ETS was an approved qualification till 1st July 2014.

approved qualification does not mean that it was monitored by the HO 24/7. ETS failed to monitor the malpractices and discrepancies (which is a duty as a test provider), therefore as a result the ETS was withdrawn from the Approved list.
equally those who took the ets toeic test, knew that the toeic test could be manipulated by paying money to get passed. so those 50,000 must be removed.

searoze wrote: "On 10 June 2014 a change to the Immigration Rules and Nationality Regulations to remove
ETS from the approved list of English language test suppliers was laid before Parliament.
This will come into effect on 1 July 2014".
Please see here

If you say "who ever done or was involved in deception shall be sent back home" seems fair to me

according to the initial reports 50,000 results were questionable. i wonder how many more there would be if proper search is done.

searoze wrote:
aaliya1986 wrote: the only question posed to these people shall be. 'why did you do a toeic test when you could have done ielts?
Number of factors or one of those could be involved
Available dates and centres
Fee
Passport as ID (one cannot sit for IELTS with out a valid passport).

available dates and centres? please do your research i would say. follow this link and you would know that IELTS has 48 exams a year and 4 tests every month. results in 2 weeks (even on the internet, a service which TOEIC did not have)
http://www.ielts.org/test_takers_inform ... dates.aspx

Fee - IELTS costs £145 or £150 if the tests are taken in London (probably cheaper outside london). but the people paid £500 for a toeic test (see BBC Panorama video)!!

Passport as ID - if a person does not have a valid passport how are they even applying for a visa? are people not responsible for keeping their passport up to date and valid at all times (unless the passport is lost/stolen/gone for extension)? moreover a National ID Card is also deemed to be accepted (follow the link)
http://www.ielts.org/test_takers_inform ... _test.aspx

a person should have atleast a valid visa when they want to take a test, therefore a BRP would/could/can be accepted as a form of identification. (read more about BRP's)
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... eaflet.pdf

or you want to argue that they do not even have a valid visa and still they should be allowed to do the test, which means you want illegal people to do english tests?

this all as a result means that the ETS did not have a strict policy for ID checking, i wonder how many illegals would have done the ETS tests and how many imposters would have done it. are you one of them?

searoze wrote:
aaliya1986 wrote:]
it takes the same time and it is worldwide accepted. why take a test (toeic) which no one knows of?
go on the street and ask people about ets toeic and ielts. one will know which is better.
If you have spare time then please go ahead and do that. Do not forget to post the survey results here
So Simple, It was accepted by the UKVI (before 1st July 2014) so no point to argue " Why take test TOEIC "

i have done my research and know the results. if you want to do yours, please do so to know the truth. and stop saying that it was accepted by the UKVI that is why people did it. are people not responsible to find out about the test before doing it? just like buying a product without knowing about it. or on a contrary buying a product by paying a premium because they know it is a GUARANTEED pass

searoze wrote:
aaliya1986 wrote: from what was seen on tv and read on the forums, everyone involved in this KNEW that they are cheating the system.
Not everyone who actually sit for the test. But the management who did not bother to record and upload the original candidate's voice but a pre recorded voice.

not everyone? do you really think so that who cheated did not know that they paid money (£500, BBC Panorama) to GET passed?
pre-recorded voice? my friend the test was a live test taken online and could not be pre-recorded (pls read more about toeic). you really need to do some research before posting on the forums.

searoze wrote:
aaliya1986 wrote: Because of these students who are originally Economic Migrants rather than Genuine Students; must be sent back home on the first flight so that genuine students do not come under scrutiny.
Leave it to UKVI. They already doing this so you shudnt be bothered at all. Just pray for your own application that is still pending with UKVI. (Wish you good luck, I even wish you dont be a victim of that SCRUTINY )

i am not concerned about my application. i am not an economic migrant but a genuine student who does not even work.
anyway what angers me is that because of some people genuine students are affected and their intentions questioned.

searoze wrote:
aaliya1986 wrote: because of this scam, admissions process has gone tough, immigration matters have gone more complex, everything is just getting more complex day by day.
Totally disagree, after this scam the only change is to interview students that I believe should be the 1st step towards admission.

universities always took/take interview from students before admission/cas issuance.
however it were those colleges which you talked about in other topic's and advised people to take admission in them to get the easy cas. but you know what? they are closed now

refer to the ukvi factsheet you told me to read

i wonder, did you also take admission in one of those colleges to extend you stay

searoze wrote:
aaliya1986 wrote: a student is involved in more immigration matters rather than study which is only because of these things.
I assure you these complex immigration matters are not because of this matter. It is same since 2004 at least.

since 2004? are you serious that immigration has been tough since 2004? please check ONS statistics for immigration, you will know the immigration levels. and compare the RULES for immigration of now and 2004. you will see how difficult has it gone.

searoze wrote:
aaliya1986 wrote: there should have been a hardline taken on this. home office is still doing less in terms of removing those involved.
Totally agree. Not only who took the test but those who arranged or helped arranging those bad quality tests.

i agree with you only on this point that all involved shall be removed.
rest all what you have written seems to me just a waste of time and felt as if you just did it for the sake of argument.
you need to do more research on these matters than me as i am very well aware of things which are going on and follow the news very closely.

London20 · Post by **London20** » Mon Dec 29, 2014 8:53 pm

Hello All
I have applied for my naturalization on 27/5/2014, still waiting for decision to be cleared as at 30/12/2014. I have been in UK as a overseas student since 2002. During extension of my visa in March 2012 my application was supported by TOIEC and ESOL.
I also used those certificates for my ILR application. My naturalization was supported only by ESOL because TOIEC got expired after 2 years. Now I came to know that TOIEC under investigation by HO since June 2014 onward. So far I have not received anything from HO apart from acknowledgment letter.
I would be very grateful if someone reply me who has the same experience.
Thanks

London20 · Post by **London20** » Tue Dec 30, 2014 10:14 pm

London20 wrote:Hello All
I have applied for my naturalization on 27/5/2014, still waiting for decision to be cleared as at 30/12/2014. I have been in UK as a overseas student since 2002. During extension of my visa in March 2012 my application was supported by TOIEC and ESOL.
I also used those certificates for my ILR application. My naturalization was supported only by ESOL because TOIEC got expired after 2 years. Now I came to know that TOIEC under investigation by HO since June 2014 onward. So far I have not received anything from HO apart from acknowledgment letter.
I would be very grateful if someone reply me who has the same experience.
Thanks

London20 · Post by **London20** » Tue Dec 30, 2014 10:20 pm

London20 wrote:
London20 wrote:Hello All
I have applied for my naturalization on 27/5/2014, still waiting for decision to be cleared as at 30/12/2014. I have been in UK as a overseas student since 2002. During extension of my visa in March 2012 my application was supported by TOIEC and ESOL.
I also used those certificates for my ILR application. My naturalization was supported only by ESOL because TOIEC got expired after 2 years. Now I came to know that TOIEC under investigation by HO since June 2014 onward. So far I have not received anything from HO apart from acknowledgment letter.
I would be very grateful if someone reply me who has the same experience.
Thanks

London20 · Post by **London20** » Tue Dec 30, 2014 10:37 pm

Obie wrote:Unfortunately UKBA are targeting both past and present beneficiary of ETS.

They are claiming they used deception in a previous application and hence face an automatic ban.

That is my major concern.

They can simply ask all this people to re take their exam again, but rather than that, they are simply refusing , rounding up and detaining people.

Hello Al
I have applied for my naturalization on 27/5/2014 still waiting for decision to be cleared as at 30/12/2014. I have been in UK as a overseas student since 2002. During extension of my student visa in Mach 2012 my application was supported by TOIEC and ESOL. I also used those certificates for my ILR application. My naturalization was supported only by ESOL because TOIEC got expired after 2 years. Now I came to know that TOIEC under investigation by HO since June 2014 onward. So Far I have not received anything from HO apart from acknowledgment letter. I would be very grateful if someone reply me who has the same experience.
Thanks

thisal1988 · Post by **thisal1988** » Wed Dec 31, 2014 11:22 am

if two years have passed since taking the test. ETS does not require testing centers to retain test administration data beyond two years.

Score Validity
Scores are used to measure a test taker's English proficiency at the time that a test is administered. Because English-language skills may improve or decline over time, a score report will not be re-issued if two years have passed since taking the test. ETS does not require testing centers to retain test administration data beyond two years

These info i found on ETS web. i have also checked their policy report. Third parties can not obtain any info after two years. They can get ur voice records if ur certificate is vaild. ( during valid 2 years ). For eg. Presum
u did ur test 2012 june and u submitted ur app 2014 march. Definitely they can get ur voice cut. Bt if ur planing to apply 2015 jan with a different test certificate u will be safe. Because ETS does not retain ur info mofe than 2 years.

thisal1988 · Post by **thisal1988** » Wed Dec 31, 2014 11:27 am

Your score is valid for only two years. In other words, two years after you take your test, your score will be deleted from the official ETS database, and ETS will not send you another report of your score. If you still have a copy of your original score, you can ask the university whether they will accept it, but most universities will not accept a copy from you; .

London20 · Post by **London20** » Thu Jan 01, 2015 6:26 pm

thisal1988 wrote:Your score is valid for only two years. In other words, two years after you take your test, your score will be deleted from the official ETS database, and ETS will not send you another report of your score. If you still have a copy of your original score, you can ask the university whether they will accept it, but most universities will not accept a copy from you; .

.
Thank you for your reply.

londonboi12 · Post by **londonboi12** » Fri Jan 02, 2015 2:35 am

Geeth08 wrote:Hi did my ETS in 2012 which is already expired. Now I'm goin to do my extension by using Pearson or ESOL by December. Will HO refuse me for expired ETS or will they grant me visa.
PS: thinking to go to one day service.

Any advise

Regards.

hi Geeth08 ,Have you got your visa ? My friend is in the same situation he applied for extention with ielts , later on he got the letter from HO to submit new english test, stating that his toeic test is cancelled by ets which he has done three years back which is already expired a year ago.
They even didnt notice that he has submited the ielts for current leave to remain not toiec.
Has anyone else experienced this kind of problem ?
Plz share your experience what can be next ?

thisal1988 · Post by **thisal1988** » Fri Jan 02, 2015 8:52 am

Londonboi12
You are right. After 2 years ETS does not retain u data. Im in same situation. Bt i haven't applied yet. I planinng to apply april 2015 with IELTS.

My certificate was expired mid of 2014.. When he did his toiec? Was it after October 2011?

London20 · Post by **London20** » Sat Jan 03, 2015 7:24 pm

thisal1988 wrote:Londonboi12
You are right. After 2 years ETS does not retain u data. Im in same situation. Bt i haven't applied yet. I planinng to apply april 2015 with IELTS.

My certificate was expired mid of 2014.. When he did his toiec? Was it after October 2011?

Thisal1988.Is there any diffrent?before or after October 2011?

K4 · Post by K4 » Wed Jan 07, 2015 12:37 am

Saw this online don't know when it was issued but in the caption it said "Good news for TOEIC students"

Frontier Mole · Post by **Frontier Mole** » Wed Jan 07, 2015 8:34 am

The attachment was good news at the time for those refused based on they were alleged to have provided a false test result.
In essence this judge questioned the evidence that HO relied on. The case was at the early stages of the scam and has been superceeded
This has now been proven and accepted by the courts that the evidence relied on by HO is accurate and is no longer questioned. Hence not a single JR based on this point has made it through to a full hearing.

vinny · Post by **vinny** » Thu Jan 08, 2015 12:27 am

Judicial toolkit for dealing with miscreant immigration lawyers.

K4 · Post by K4 » Wed Jan 14, 2015 11:28 pm

Hi everyone

People who have applied ILR (10 years long residency) had previous history with toeic what are the chances? Any news on th matter?

aaliya1986 · Post by **aaliya1986** » Fri Jan 16, 2015 6:16 am

K4 wrote:Hi everyone

People who have applied ILR (10 years long residency) had previous history with toeic what are the chances? Any news on th matter?

i deception is proved in any of the previous immigration extensions then the chances are very slim or near to impossible to get the ILR because of the case of deception.

NIMOG · Post by **NIMOG** » Sat Jan 31, 2015 3:05 pm

Hi!

What about the people who already got the ILR on basis of 10 yer long residency, if ETS involved for the extension for that 10 yer period. As one of my friend who was on work permit got his visa revoked as he obtain the degree on the basis of ETS.

Thanks for reply in advance....

aaliya1986 · Post by **aaliya1986** » Sat Jan 31, 2015 11:53 pm

there have been cases where offends have been stripped of their British Passports. it depends from case to case really and whether an offence has been proved or not.

it would be difficult to say but if proved that the application deceived the home office then yes there are chances of getting the ILR cancelled. these are my opinions and not a LAW, lets see what others have to say.

NIMOG · Post by **NIMOG** » Sun Feb 01, 2015 7:08 am

Thanks aaliya for reply, honestly this question was for me.
Actually I have my family and have 2 kids who are born in uk, the first one is 6 and other is 13 months old so can we do anything on basis of that if they cancelled my ILR.

Please reply.

NIMOG · Post by **NIMOG** » Sun Feb 01, 2015 7:11 am

additionally I would like to say that I got my ILR on the basis of B1 English test which was from different body (LRN), also i came across few post which says that TOEIC score valid for 2 years only? in my case my ILR was approved in feb 2014 and TOEIC was expired on 03/01/2014.

Please need some expert advice as this is really IMP for me and my family, as we have spend most time of our life in this country and i'm sure there should be some way.I'm also seeking advice and looking for answer, if i got answer will definitely post it to help others.

Once again thanks in advance for reply, also this will help people who are in same boat or seeking for the answer to their query.

aaliya1986 · Post by **aaliya1986** » Sun Feb 01, 2015 11:23 am

The only question would be whether deception was used to get a visa?

the answer to the question would be yes, if you would have used a toeic certificate (regardless of the certificate being expired now) which is/was reported as cancelled/questionable then you will have to face difficulties and there are high chances of getting the ILR cancelled because, You have deceived the home office to get the visa.

secondly in terms of your children, this may be a different story but i will not be able to say anything as my knowledge does not go that far. its tricky because if the father of the children is proved to have deceived then automatically i think the children will have to leave too if the father is ordered to leave.
again lets see what others have to say.

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