Re: Refused British Citizenship due to being in the UK Illeg

oncewas · Post by **oncewas** » Thu Apr 09, 2015 3:57 pm

Hi Amber

Quick question, what if I entered legally then became illigal for a period before I was granted ILR. That's the situation im in at the moment. I have just cloaked 3 years and after ILR application was approved.

cs95tdg · Post by **cs95tdg** » Thu Apr 09, 2015 9:25 pm

oncewas wrote:Quick question, what if I entered legally then became illigal for a period before I was granted ILR. That's the situation im in at the moment. I have just cloaked 3 years and after ILR application was approved.

I believe the topic Amber has created here is for those who entered the UK as asylum seekers/refugees. The December 2014 Good Character rule changes would still apply to other applicants who have broken immigration rules etc... during the 10 years prior to their application date. May be if you explain your immigration history, others may be able to comment on your specific circumstances further.

Post by **Amber** » Thu Apr 09, 2015 10:03 pm

It would depend on the circumstances as to why you were an overstayer. If for example, you had submitted an application that was deemed invalid but you made a subsequent application which was successful, then it may be decided that your time as an overstayer is not a reason for you to be refused. In general any period of overstaying should not be deliberate nor substantial. If there were other aggravating circumstances such as working illegally then it's unlikely any discretion will be used.

mfaheem · Post by **mfaheem** » Thu Apr 09, 2015 10:25 pm

Hi Amber,

I have got a friend who applied for his in-time application for FLR 2008 but with drawn the application to travel back to his country. He left the country with-in 2 weeks of getting his passport back. He applied for his visa in 2009 from back home and came back, after 5 years he got his ILR.

My question is, was he considered overstayer when he withdrawn his application and he do has to wait till 10 years to apply for naturalisation.

Thanks

gnantha · Post by **gnantha** » Fri Apr 10, 2015 12:28 am

Hello Amber, thank you for your valuable posts.

Hope you can help with my application.

I entered UK illegally in feb 2008 and made an in-country asylum claim.

Was in UK illegally for two days as arrived on Saturday and Claimed asylum following Monday.

Since then been granted temporary permission followed by refugee status for five years and ilr in 2013.

Do I have a scope to apply for reconsideration.

Kindly advise.

Post by **Amber** » Fri Apr 10, 2015 6:24 am

mfaheem when did your friends leave expire, if before he left the UK how long before?

Gnantha, have you actually been refused?

gnantha · Post by **gnantha** » Fri Apr 10, 2015 10:30 am

Hello amber,

I'm still waiting for an answer from home office since Dec 2014.

i'm preparing for the worst to happen as this new guidance on good character and ten year refusal for illegal entry were updated after submitting my application on 11th Dec.

hope you share my concern and your advise will help in my preparation.

thank you.

anaia · Post by **anaia** » Fri Apr 10, 2015 10:40 am

Amber wrote:It would depend on the circumstances as to why you were an overstayer. If for example, you had submitted an application that was deemed invalid but you made a subsequent application which was successful, then it may be decided that your time as an overstayer is not a reason for you to be refused. In general any period of overstaying should not be deliberate nor substantial. If there were other aggravating circumstances such as working illegally then it's unlikely any discretion will be used.

i have just seen this never heard of it before below is my story, if any one could help

i came to the UK march 1999 as visitor at the age of 15 years old , i have my oldest brother living here so i overstayed until i meet my ex wife in 2003 we got married feb 2005 i had submitted application form jan 2006 and was granted 3 years dlr dec 2007 got it renewed and have been on ilr since 14th of may 2014 and i just made an appointment at ncs for the 15th of may, do you think i will be refused since i was illegally in the country from march 1999 to 2007?

mfaheem · Post by **mfaheem** » Fri Apr 10, 2015 1:38 pm

@Amber, Many thanks for your reply his leave expired mid of Jan 2008 and he withdraw his FLR application at the start of Feb 2008 left UK in around 2 weeks of getting his passport back which is end of Feb 2008, when he left UK his visa was already expired

fwd079 · Post by **fwd079** » Fri Apr 10, 2015 1:52 pm

anaia wrote: i have just seen this never heard of it before below is my story, if any one could help

i came to the UK march 1999 as visitor at the age of 15 years old , i have my oldest brother living here so i overstayed until i meet my ex wife in 2003 we got married feb 2005 i had submitted application form jan 2006 and was granted 3 years dlr dec 2007 got it renewed and have been on ilr since 14th of may 2014 and i just made an appointment at ncs for the 15th of may, do you think i will be refused since i was illegally in the country from march 1999 to 2007?

Amber can tell better, but since you were overstayer so you are not eligible till 2017 (ten years prior to you being overstayer).

RU55IAN · Post by **RU55IAN** » Fri Apr 10, 2015 8:02 pm

Hi All!

Amber, I was hoping to hear your opinion on this topic I created today.

http://www.immigrationboards.com/britis ... 84343.html

The dates I mentioned in the above topic for example only.

My close friend has the following situation:

1. 10/11/2001 arrived in the UK on 6 months visitor/tourist visa
2. Visa expired in May 2002
3. His mother lived in the UK at the time lawfully, by May 2002 he turned 20.
4. They were advised to apply for Leave to Remain based on compassionate circumstances as a dependant of his mother. His friend did this an was granted Leave to Remain.
5. They got a refusal and hired a solicitor in order to submit an appeal.
6. Solicitor never sent it and just kept the documents in his desk for months.
7. When it came to light they sent the documents to the Home Office and of course received a refusal letter and were very surprised that he is still in the UK. This was some time in 2003.
8. Then they wrote to the local member of Parliament, who sent a letter to the Home Office but also receive the same reply.
9. This guy then remained in the UK illegal, living with his mother.
10. He never engaged into employment and has no criminal convictions or any sort of warnings.
11. In February 2009 he got married to an EEA national and received his RC for 5 years in June 2009.
12. In June 2014 he got his PR.
13. The time is now nearing for him to apply for naturalisation in June 2015.
14. He's got his IELTS academic level and Life in the UK certificate.
15. Never claimed any benefits even after receiving his PR.

Now he is worried that he might get a refusal because of his previous overstay. He is not sure whether his overstay counts from May 2002 when his tourist visa expired or after he was refused when he submitted his documents after solicitor messed him up or he needs to count 10 years from the date when he got married in 2009 and became legal.

Thank you in advance for your replies.

Post by **Amber** » Sat Apr 11, 2015 12:01 am

I will reiterate, if you have not had Refugee Status, it's likely that you will be refused citizenship if, in the previous 10 years you have any period of contravening immigration control, I.e. Being in the UK unlawfully. The exceptions are only likely to include times when you were in the UK illegally for periods not deliberate or substantial. An example, may be when an in time application was deemed invalid and made you an overstsayer but, you subsequently rectified this by resubmitting the application and you were successful. Prolonged periods of being in the UK illegally are unlikely to be disregarded unless, for example, you were in hospital and had no way of making an in time application.

viganooriah · Post by **viganooriah** » Sun Apr 12, 2015 3:13 am

I do understand that the new rules on Good Character is a pain, but those in this situation already hold the ILR; I do understand the minor drawbacks to having ILR as opposed to the Citizenship; so could someone please explain to me why is this such a problem?
Great letter by the way Amber ; members helpful like you is rare nowadays compared to the multitude of "Gurus" of last year...

Refugee UK · Post by **Refugee UK** » Sun Apr 12, 2015 9:06 am

Dear viganooriah,

I know several people who have been living in UK as refugee for many years. After coming to UK, most of them have developed health problems they were never aware of. Most of this particularity serious depression is caused by their uncertain situation. My friend, the way British Government is changing the immigration rules, ILR is no more a guarantee that these people will subsequently be able to get British citizenship.

The people who I know are not lucky like you and me and cannot access internet. I cannot explain how relieved they were when I showed and explained to them amber's post.

What I understand (same as the refugee families I know), refugee ILR does not carry the status of an ordinary ILR. These people can neither get the passport of their country of origin nor of UK. They have to travel on Refugee Travel Documents which means a long process for getting visa for another country and detailed, sometimes hours long, question answers on arrival desks.

Although they can travel back to their country of origin in some cases e.g. death of their relatives, but ,practically, it is not easy to avail this relaxation, as applying for a national passport may disqualify them from being recognised as a refugee. Even if they travel to a neighbouring country on Refugee Travel Documents, say a Somalian refugee travels to Ethiopia, they are suspected that they visited Somalia.

Once you get citizenship, you get rid of all these issues.

What I have explained is what I am hearing from my friends and it may be wrong. Lets see what others say.

viganooriah · Post by **viganooriah** » Sun Apr 12, 2015 11:23 am

Refugee UK wrote:Dear viganooriah,

I know several people who have been living in UK as refugee for many years. After coming to UK, most of them have developed health problems they were never aware of. Most of this particularity serious depression is caused by their uncertain situation. My friend, the way British Government is changing the immigration rules, ILR is no more a guarantee that these people will subsequently be able to get British citizenship.

The people who I know are not lucky like you and me and cannot access internet. I cannot explain how relieved they were when I showed and explained to them amber's post.

What I understand (same as the refugee families I know), refugee ILR does not carry the status of an ordinary ILR. These people can neither get the passport of their country of origin nor of UK. They have to travel on Refugee Travel Documents which means a long process for getting visa for another country and detailed, sometimes hours long, question answers on arrival desks.

Although they can travel back to their country of origin in some cases e.g. death of their relatives, but ,practically, it is not easy to avail this relaxation, as applying for a national passport may disqualify them from being recognised as a refugee. Even if they travel to a neighbouring country on Refugee Travel Documents, say a Somalian refugee travels to Ethiopia, they are suspected that they visited Somalia.

Once you get citizenship, you get rid of all these issues.

What I have explained is what I am hearing from my friends and it may be wrong. Lets see what others say.

Hello Refugee UK

Thank you for your clear and detailed explanation. I really wasn't aware of those issues you mentioned. I hope I didn't offend anyone with my question

glory5050 · Post by **glory5050** » Sun Apr 12, 2015 3:58 pm

Hi,
Is there a time limit to put in a reconsideration application for a refusal ?
Thank you.

Post by **Amber** » Sun Apr 12, 2015 4:08 pm

No, but I wouldn't leave it, the information should be contemporaneous.

glory5050 · Post by **glory5050** » Sun Apr 12, 2015 5:53 pm

Amber wrote:No, but I wouldn't leave it, the information should be contemporaneous.

Thanks Amber

anaia · Post by **anaia** » Sun Apr 12, 2015 7:57 pm

hi Amber is this correct ?

fwd079 wrote:
anaia wrote: i have just seen this never heard of it before below is my story, if any one could help

i came to the UK march 1999 as visitor at the age of 15 years old , i have my oldest brother living here so i overstayed until i meet my ex wife in 2003 we got married feb 2005 i had submitted application form jan 2006 and was granted 3 years dlr dec 2007 got it renewed and have been on ilr since 14th of may 2014 and i just made an appointment at ncs for the 15th of may, do you think i will be refused since i was illegally in the country from march 1999 to 2007?
Amber can tell better, but since you were overstayer so you are not eligible till 2017 (ten years prior to you being overstayer).

Post by **Amber** » Sun Apr 12, 2015 9:04 pm

Yes, I'm afraid so.

foxtrot1234 · Post by **foxtrot1234** » Sat Apr 18, 2015 4:07 am

Hi Amber,
Could you please advise me on this subject matter,

First I came to UK with my spouse on 2yrs visitor visa in Jan 2003, overstayed my visa, visa expired in August 2004. My family and I applied for Further Leave to Remain in UK with Home office in November 2004 but our pending application remained with Home office without refused for almost 4years. In June 2008, Home office granted me and my family 3years Discretionary leave to remain and second extension has been granted as well. ILR was granted on Sept 2014 but I want to know whether I can apply for naturalization in sept 2015.
Now my question will my previous overstaying visa affect my naturalization as I will be applying next sept 2015

Please advice will be well appreciated.

Foxtrot1234

Haru · Post by **Haru** » Sat Apr 18, 2015 9:58 am

Hi all. Applied for citizenship in April 2014. Received a letter from the Home Office this morning which says: "you were here without valid leave in the United Kingdom between when your leave to remain expired and 3rd January 2008 when you were granted further to remain. You were then not compliant with UK laws during this period. I order we may give further consideration to your application please state how you were maintaining yourself in the country during this period and provide appropriate evidence ie wage slips, benefit letters, evidence of other income."

If these documents are not provided within the stated date, will result in the application being refused.

I was wondering if I provide the source of income eg prove of business I had/ have in my home country , letters from people who supported me during that time etc, is there any chance of the application being successful ?

Thanks

jefstudent · Post by **jefstudent** » Sat Apr 18, 2015 2:53 pm

Hi,

I have got same letter today because I overstayed between 2006 and 2011. However, I had permission to marry application pending between 2008 - 2009.

I have spoken to a solictor today and found out that apparently they are refusing applicants on this ground. Let me know if you do found out anything please.

thanks
faz

Haru · Post by **Haru** » Sat Apr 18, 2015 4:35 pm

Hi jefstudent , when did you apply if I may ask? I was wondering why they are asking for documents on how people were maintaining themselves during the time they were illegal if they are still going to refuse the application. I thought they would turn down the application straight away.

The other thing is ,I applied before being previously illegal added to good character requirement. Obviously, I would not have applied.

The.Watcher · Post by **The.Watcher** » Sat Apr 18, 2015 4:47 pm

From what I'm learning by researching and also even from the answers by Amber in this topic. Is that if the home office can prove you broke an immigration law, (such as overstaying) then it's pretty much done deal they will refuse your naturalisation regardless of what proof you send on how you were maintaining yourself. As if you supply wage slips or business records then it's more than likely they will just come back and say you were illegally working or conducting in business without a right to be in the country.

Decisions seem to be made with the guidelines available at the time of the case being looked at. There is no, "I sent it before your good character" changes as after all. Naturalisation is at the discretion of the HS.

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