Re: EEA2 Surinder Singh 3 Month Success Story

[wssw]

Hi everyone. 3 questions.

Question #1: We've recently started SS in Ireland. I've registered myself at the tax office as self-employed, as I'm giving music lessons from home. My question is with regards to how I should go about providing invoices/proof of my teaching/self-employment. Do I create an invoice for each student and have them sign it each lesson? What might you suggest?

Question #2: Should I, as the EU parent of an 8 month-old, not apply for child benefits and/or parental assistance during these 3-4 SS months?

Question #3: When should my Canadian wife apply for her Irish residence card, ideally?

thanks so much.

[noajthan]

Hi everyone. 3 questions.

Question #1: We've recently started SS in Ireland. I've registered myself at the tax office as self-employed, as I'm giving music lessons from home. My question is with regards to how I should go about providing invoices/proof of my teaching/self-employment. Do I create an invoice for each student and have them sign it each lesson? What might you suggest?

Question #2: Should I, as the EU parent of an 8 month-old, not apply for child benefits and/or parental assistance during these 3-4 SS months?

Question #3: When should my Canadian wife apply for her Irish residence card, ideally?

Thanks so much.

1) Yes.

Create as much of a papertrail as possible; eg:

• invoices;
  accounts;
  business cards;
  flyers;
  registration with tax authorities;
  business bank account;
  business insurance;
  permission from landlord to use rented home(?) as business premises;
  VAT registration (?);
  promotional concerts in pub, local school, old people's homes, local shopping centre, local community centre/social club or ??
  promotional videos or CDs &/or YouTube channel;

& etc.

You can get in the head of a HO caseworker to see how they will assess your status as a self-employed person:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... _clean.pdf
- see page 18+

2) You need to demonstrate your self-employment is genuine & effective work, not supplementary & marginal.

Be aware, if you return to UK, HO may play hard ball;
they may do something like apply their somewhat controversial 'MET' test to your self-employment in order to weigh up whether it is indeed genuine & effective.
See https://www.freemovement.org.uk/using-m ... ine-worker

3) Whenever you as sponsor are exercising treaty rights as a qualified person;
eg working/self-employed.

[wssw]

Hi everyone. 3 questions.

Question #1: We've recently started SS in Ireland. I've registered myself at the tax office as self-employed, as I'm giving music lessons from home. My question is with regards to how I should go about providing invoices/proof of my teaching/self-employment. Do I create an invoice for each student and have them sign it each lesson? What might you suggest?

Question #2: Should I, as the EU parent of an 8 month-old, not apply for child benefits and/or parental assistance during these 3-4 SS months?

Question #3: When should my Canadian wife apply for her Irish residence card, ideally?

Thanks so much.

1) Yes.

Create as much of a papertrail as possible; eg:

• invoices;
  accounts;
  business cards;
  flyers;
  registration with tax authorities;
  business bank account;
  business insurance;
  permission from landlord to use rented home(?) as business premises;
  VAT registration (?);
  promotional concerts in pub, local school, old people's homes, local shopping centre, local community centre/social club or ??
  promotional videos or CDs &/or YouTube channel;

& etc.

You can get in the head of a HO caseworker to see how they will assess your status as a self-employed person:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... _clean.pdf
- see page 18+

2) You need to demonstrate your self-employment is genuine & effective work, not supplementary & marginal.

Be aware, if you return to UK, HO may play hard ball;
they may do something like apply their somewhat controversial 'MET' test to your self-employment in order to weigh up whether it is indeed genuine & effective.
See https://www.freemovement.org.uk/using-m ... ine-worker

3) Whenever you as sponsor are exercising treaty rights as a qualified person;
eg working/self-employed.

Thanks so so much for your helpful answers. We're going to try our best, I think.... despite this bit of news http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016 ... t-eu-rules

[noajthan]

...

Thanks so so much for your helpful answers. We're going to try our best, I think.... despite this bit of news http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016 ... t-eu-rules

Don't panic.

And see: general-uk-immigration-forum/surinder-s ... l#p1307692

[wssw]

...

Thanks so so much for your helpful answers. We're going to try our best, I think.... despite this bit of news http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016 ... t-eu-rules

Don't panic.

And see: general-uk-immigration-forum/surinder-s ... l#p1307692

What's Scotland's stance on all of this? I suppose they have to follow suit until voted otherwise.

[Aaron-Law]

Hi everyone. 3 questions.

Question #1: We've recently started SS in Ireland. I've registered myself at the tax office as self-employed, as I'm giving music lessons from home. My question is with regards to how I should go about providing invoices/proof of my teaching/self-employment. Do I create an invoice for each student and have them sign it each lesson? What might you suggest?

Question #2: Should I, as the EU parent of an 8 month-old, not apply for child benefits and/or parental assistance during these 3-4 SS months?

Question #3: When should my Canadian wife apply for her Irish residence card, ideally?

thanks so much.

Hi Wssw,
Answer 1. You will have to get an accountant involved who can advise you on the appropriate invoicing procedure. I understand that you want to pursue the SS route but which country are you a national of?
Answer 2. As an EEA national you can seek or opt for Socials (as they call it in Ireland) for the EEA national child. However; this may hamper the answer to your next question.
Answer 3. Once you have all the relevant supporting documents ready then you can send the EU1 application.
Technically you have upto 3 months to send the application from the time you and your non-EEA national spouse arrive in ROI.
Further to the above I have a question regarding your 8 month old toddler, which country was the kid born? And what is the biological father's nationality at the time of the child's birth?

If you can answer my questions above then, maybe we can look into this case with a different perspective.

Thank you,
Best regards,

Aaron.

[wssw]

Hi Wssw,
Answer 1. You will have to get an accountant involved who can advise you on the appropriate invoicing procedure. I understand that you want to pursue the SS route but which country are you a national of?
Answer 2. As an EEA national you can seek or opt for Socials (as they call it in Ireland) for the EEA national child. However; this may hamper the answer to your next question.
Answer 3. Once you have all the relevant supporting documents ready then you can send the EU1 application.
Technically you have upto 3 months to send the application from the time you and your non-EEA national spouse arrive in ROI.
Further to the above I have a question regarding your 8 month old toddler, which country was the kid born? And what is the biological father's nationality at the time of the child's birth?

If you can answer my questions above then, maybe we can look into this case with a different perspective.

Thank you,
Best regards,

Aaron.

Thanks for your reply, Aaron.


I'm a dual (Canadian/British) citizen. Our son also. He was born in Canada.

I hadn't yet thought of getting an accountant. Thanks for the tip. With all of that said, I'm not even sure if I can make the self employment route work for us. It takes a good while to build up the number of committed students required to make it viable, even in the best of scenarios, and I'm not sure we picked a very economically stable area of Ireland. Given the housing crisis, we had very little choice as to where we could live. I'm also leery of the fact that, in the rental contract we signed, it states that we are not permitted to use our flat as a means to make money. So as you can imagine, I've also been putting a lot of energy into employment of the non self kind!

[wssw]

Hi Wssw,
Answer 1. You will have to get an accountant involved who can advise you on the appropriate invoicing procedure. I understand that you want to pursue the SS route but which country are you a national of?
Answer 2. As an EEA national you can seek or opt for Socials (as they call it in Ireland) for the EEA national child. However; this may hamper the answer to your next question.
Answer 3. Once you have all the relevant supporting documents ready then you can send the EU1 application.
Technically you have upto 3 months to send the application from the time you and your non-EEA national spouse arrive in ROI.
Further to the above I have a question regarding your 8 month old toddler, which country was the kid born? And what is the biological father's nationality at the time of the child's birth?

If you can answer my questions above then, maybe we can look into this case with a different perspective.

Thank you,
Best regards,

Aaron.

Thanks for your reply, Aaron.


I'm a dual (Canadian/British) citizen. Our son also. He was born in Canada.

I hadn't yet thought of getting an accountant. Thanks for the tip. With all of that said, I'm not even sure if I can make the self employment route work for us. It takes a good while to build up the number of committed students required to make it viable, even in the best of scenarios, and I'm not sure we picked a very economically stable area of Ireland. Given the housing crisis, we had very little choice as to where we could live. I'm also leery of the fact that, in the rental contract we signed, it states that we are not permitted to use our flat as a means to make money. So as you can imagine, I've also been putting a lot of energy into employment of the non self kind!

I'm still interested in hearing from you!

[wssw]

With regards to meeting the SS minimum recommended 10-12 hours of work/week, does that apply to self employment as well?

For example, I teach 6 hour-long lessons a week. That's only 6 hours for which I am paid. I guess if I include prep time, that adds up to more than 6 hours.

Alternatively, I might be smart to make my rate less on paper and add more hours so that it corresponds with bank account activity.

[noajthan]

With regards to meeting the SS minimum recommended 10-12 hours of work/week, does that apply to self employment as well?

For example, I teach 6 hour-long lessons a week. That's only 6 hours for which I am paid. I guess if I include prep time, that adds up to more than 6 hours.

Alternatively, I might be smart to make my rate less on paper and add more hours so that it corresponds with bank account activity.

Very likely.

The main requirement is to prove its genuine/effective not marginal & supplementary.
See links posted above.

I would not recommend manipulating invoices & fabricating paperwork.
Everything needs to stand up to scrutiny.

[wssw]

With regards to meeting the SS minimum recommended 10-12 hours of work/week, does that apply to self employment as well?

For example, I teach 6 hour-long lessons a week. That's only 6 hours for which I am paid. I guess if I include prep time, that adds up to more than 6 hours.

Alternatively, I might be smart to make my rate less on paper and add more hours so that it corresponds with bank account activity.

Very likely.

The main requirement is to prove its genuine/effective not marginal & supplementary.
See links posted above.

I would not recommend manipulating invoices & fabricating paperwork.
Everything needs to stand up to scrutiny.

Yeah, forget I even said that. I posted that without thinking.