Meaning of stamp "Leave to enter UK is given for 6 months"

[vinny]

It seems that some Immigration Officers are now issuing a more appropriate endorsement instead of the Code 1A.

The difference between leave to enter/remain is where it's granted.

[FighterBoy]

Interesting thanks Vinny.

[kye2]

Hello. I'm the original poster (OP) of this thread. My old account cannot be used anymore, lost password, trying to reset password I get "you are not authorized to request a new password".

I had not noticed that the discussion in the thread had continued. I'll try to provide the answers that have been requested last year.

[kye2]

In order to be exercising your treaty rights you should be employed, studying or job seeking.

Thanks. I believe this means, if I simply intend to infrequently visit the UK for the purpose of weekend trips and visits to conferences (2-3 times a year for short visits), my wife isn't eligible for a EEA family permit - because I am not exercising my treaty rights. Correct?

[Casa]

In order to be exercising your treaty rights you should be employed, studying or job seeking.

Thanks. I believe this means, if I simply intend to infrequently visit the UK for the purpose of weekend trips and visits to conferences (2-3 times a year for short visits), my wife isn't eligible for a EEA family permit - because I am not exercising my treaty rights. Correct?

Correct.

[kye2]

I think there is confusion here. Leave to enter for 6 months just means that your partner can visit the UK for 6 months. I take it that you are just visiting the UK, so this is just the stamp that indicates this. It does NOT mean that your partner can leave and enter again without you for a period of 6 months.

Correct, we were just visiting.

You said, it doesn't allow her to enter the UK when travelling alone.
But should it have allowed us to enter the UK within the 6 months period, when travelling together?

FYI, we tried to travel together within the 6 months period, but the airport crew outside the UK didn't know about the meaning of the stamp, made phone calls to investigate, but ultimately decided to deny her boarding.

[kye2]

In order to be exercising your treaty rights you should be employed, studying or job seeking.

Casa with respect, I don't think that is the full story, exercising treaty rights can be as simple as making a purchase whilst visiting within the 3 month initial right of residence period. That's my understanding.

That's interesting.

I wish there was a clearer definition of the term "exercise treaty rights". Do you potentially know of any such definition?

For my situation, the answer directly affects whether it makes sense for me to try the EEA Family Permit route or not.

(As a side note, because it is so hard to visit the UK, during the past year I had decided to pause my attempts to solve the situation. Now I have some motiviation to try again.)

[kye2]

To the OP: What nationality is your spouse? And did you go through immigration together or did she go through the non-EEA channel by herself? Did you carry documentary proof of your marriage (marriage certificate)?

Belarus, holding permanent german resident card.
We went through immigration together (at Brussels Eurostar station).
Yes, we did carry and presented our marriage certificate.

[noajthan]

In order to be exercising your treaty rights you should be employed, studying or job seeking.

Casa with respect, I don't think that is the full story, exercising treaty rights can be as simple as making a purchase whilst visiting within the 3 month initial right of residence period. That's my understanding.

That's interesting.

I wish there was a clearer definition of the term "exercise treaty rights". Do you potentially know of any such definition?
...

Exercising treaty rights is not really about going shopping and making a purchase!

To get up to speed start here:
http://ec.europa.eu/justice/citizen/doc ... 013_en.pdf
- see chapter 6

For a UK HO take on these matters see here:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... ction3.pdf
- see section 4.5.1

&/or see:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... _clean.pdf

[kye2]

Thank you, casa and noajthan, for your responses.

I'm concluding, only regular Visas can allow my wife to accompany me on trips to the UK.

[noajthan]

Thank you, casa and noajthan, for your responses.

I'm concluding, only regular Visas can allow my wife to accompany me on trips to the UK.

I see you are an EEA national.
If wife has an Article 10 or Article 20 residence card things are easier:
https://blogs.kent.ac.uk/eu-rights-clin ... pril-2015/

Otherwise you could adopt this method for visits to UK (be prepared for delays):
https://eumovement.wordpress.com/2010/0 ... to-travel/

You don't need to exercise treaty rights in UK for the first 3 months of your sojourn in UK; so there is no need to exercise treaty rights if you come to UK for a short trip.

And a FP is issued to someone (non-EEA) joining or moving with an EEA national to UK and is good for multiple entry/exits for 6 months.

Not sure why you cannot apply for one as, for example, some Surinder Singh-er Brits (living elsewhere in Europe) do apply for a FP for their spouse for the purpose of short family visits to UK.
I.e. that's a (proxy) 'EEA national' (and non-EEA spouse) using the FP for visits (not as an entry visa to UK for residence).

[vinny]

An application for an EEA family permit is also possible.

[kye2]

I see you are an EEA national.
If wife has an Article 10 or Article 20 residence card things are easier:
https://blogs.kent.ac.uk/eu-rights-clin ... pril-2015/

I believe we aren't able to obtain such residence cards.

I'm a born german national, living and working in germany.
My wife has a german permanent residence card (not mentioning any family relationship to me).

If I understand correctly, we are unable to obtain a "residence card for a family member", because I'm not exercising any free movement rights.

I believe in order to qualify, I would have to move my primary residency to another EU state, e.g. the Netherlands, and prove that I live there.
Only then my wife would be able to obtain a residency card from the Netherlands.

But given that we don't intend to move to another EU state, nor that I can change jobs, I don't see how I could prove that I live in the Netherlands.
Furthermore, I've read that it is impossible to hold two residency cards in parallel. As a consequence, for my wife to obtain a residence cards from e.g. the Netherlands, she would have to give up her german permanent residence card.

Is there a simpler way to obtain a residency card that contains the "... of a family member ..." wording?
The german official web sites clearly state that they will not give out such cards for family members of german citizens.

If I understand correctly, this path is only viable for people who have the ability to live and work in an EU state that is different from their national state.

Otherwise you could adopt this method for visits (be prepared for delays):
https://eumovement.wordpress.com/2010/0 ... to-travel/

We tried this approach on our trip via Eurostar from Brussels to London last year, when we had plenty of time, and didn't mind the risk of being rejected.
It had worked. We were able to convince the british border officer at the Brussels Eurostar station, who made a phone call, and gave my wife the said stamp.

However, 3 months later, when we tried to travel together, by trying to board a flight from Frankfurt to Edinburgh, my wife was denied boarding, despite us being together, despite presenting the marriage certificate and regular permanent residence cards, and despite even presenting the said stamp.

At that time, the Lufthansa gate staff told us, without a Visa, and without a residency card having the "of a family member of a union citizen" wording, they cannot allow boarding.

I believe this is a good example that the mentioned approach can fail.
I'm worried the same would happen again, when if we tried again in the future.

You don't need to exercise treaty rights in UK for the first 3 months of your sojourn in UK; so there is no need to exercise treaty rights if you come to UK for a short trip.

And a FP is issued to someone (non-EEA) joining or moving with an EEA national to UK and is good for multiple entry/exits for 6 months.

I hear you, but it seems it didn't work in my case.

When we made our trip with Eurostar to London in early 2016, when we were granted entry to the UK, my understanding was that it indeed was granted as a family permit - but that stamp was neither accepted, nor even recognized by airline staff.

Because the only document that we had received from the border officer was the mentioned stamp "leave to enter the UK for 6 months", I had concluded that this stamp is equivalent to being a family permit.

Should I have asked the border officer to more clearly document that our entry produced a FP? Is there any FP document that the border officer should have given to us?

Not sure why you cannot apply for one as, for example, some Surinder Singh-er Brits (living elsewhere in Europe) do apply for a FP for their spouse for the purpose of short family visits to UK.
I.e. that's a (proxy) 'EEA national' (and non-EEA spouse) using FP for visits (not as an entry visa to UK for residence).

Thanks, this part seems more complex to understand, and I'll need some more time to digest it. I had previously read about the Surinder Singh scenario that you mentioned, but when I read it, it seemed that it doesn't apply to our situation.

[noajthan]

Looks like you've covered or at least tried most options already.

I agree that the RC your wife has will be a domestic German one and not an Article 'x' card.

To get a UK FP as a permit (instead of just the related stamp in a passport) you would apply online for a FP, via:
https://www.gov.uk/family-permit/overview

You are correct Surinder Singh doesn't apply to you. I was 'simply' using it as an example of even British people using a FP (or at least their non-EEA spouse using one) in order to come back and visit UK.
The Brits in this case live in Europe (as they are on the Surinder Singh route) but sometimes wish to visit UK with non-EEA spouse.
You in your case live in Germany, as is your right, and you occasionally wish to visit UK with non-EEA spouse.
(Hope my example makes more sense now).

[kye2]

An application for an EEA family permit is also possible.

But in this post, Casa has just claimed that it ISN'T possible in my situation:
http://www.immigrationboards.com/eea-ro ... l#p1335075

[Casa]

I can't disagree with Vinny...he's found something I missed.

[noajthan]

An application for an EEA family permit is also possible.

But in this post, Casa has just claimed that it ISN'T possible in my situation:
http://www.immigrationboards.com/eea-ro ... l#p1335075

If joining a spouse in UK that sponsor/spouse needs to be exercising treaty rights (at least after their first 3 months in UK).

If moving with a spouse to UK then noone is exercising treaty rights (yet) as they are just moving to the country (eg for first time).
And for first 3 months of the trip or move to UK there is a 'grace period'; no rights (as a qualified person) have to be exercised in that 3 months grace period.

[FighterBoy]

I have a Q - What's the purpose behind giving a wife 3 or 6 months leave to enter the UK, if the wife has no time limit on their stay? And say wives who have a 2-3 year UK spousal visa, do they get these stamps when (re)entering the UK as well?

Thanks

[noajthan]

I have a Q - What's the purpose behind giving a wife 3 or 6 months leave to enter the UK, if the wife has no time limit on their stay? And say wives who have a 2-3 year UK spousal visa, do they get these stamps when (re)entering the UK as well?

Thanks

If you're referring to the original query, for people on EU migration journey, the stamp grants initial leave much as a FP ('entry visa') would do, for 6 months.
Spouses (dependent direct family members) of EEA nationals cannot actually stay in UK with "no time limit" unless their EEA sponsor is exercising treaty rights, (that is after their initial 3 months grace period after arriving in UK).

On the other hand, people on the UK immigration route who are settled (that is, with no time limit on their 'stay' in UK) would enter UK using their BRP and so would not get such a stamp.
And I don't remember my wife getting a time-limited stamp even when she was on a spouse visa.

[FighterBoy]

I have a Q - What's the purpose behind giving a wife 3 or 6 months leave to enter the UK, if the wife has no time limit on their stay? And say wives who have a 2-3 year UK spousal visa, do they get these stamps when (re)entering the UK as well?

Thanks

If you're referring to the original query, for people on EU migration journey, the stamp grants initial leave much as a FP ('entry visa') would do, for 6 months.
Spouses (dependent direct family members) of EEA nationals cannot actually stay in UK with "no time limit" unless their EEA sponsor is exercising treaty rights, (that is after their initial 3 months grace period after arriving in UK).

Understood, but say the sponsor does exercise treaty rights, and they're living together in the UK for say 2-3 years, then they go on holiday and then return to the UK - Does the wife get another 6 months leave to enter stamp?

[noajthan]

...

Understood, but say the sponsor does exercise treaty rights, and they're living together in the UK for say 2-3 years, then they go on holiday and then return to the UK - Does the wife get another 6 months leave to enter stamp?

If the wife had a RC she could use that ofcourse (in which case - no stamp).
Or they might have applied for a FP with which to re-enter UK.

Otherwise I think such a traveller would be stamped in (having proven their identity, relationship & etc) as per the Border Force manual:
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/ ... ndents.pdf
- see para 5.5.2

[FighterBoy]

...

Understood, but say the sponsor does exercise treaty rights, and they're living together in the UK for say 2-3 years, then they go on holiday and then return to the UK - Does the wife get another 6 months leave to enter stamp?

If the wife had a RC she could use that ofcourse (in which case - no stamp).
Or they might have applied for a FP with which to re-enter UK.

Otherwise I think such a traveller would be stamped in (having proven their identity, relationship & etc) as per the Border Force manual:
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/ ... ndents.pdf
- see para 5.5.2

Interesting, thanks