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She can (at a cost, obviously) extend her leave to remain in the spouse category if she doesn't make the full 2 years.The problem with option 1 (Settlement VISA) is that we are not moving right now to settle in the UK. We plan to go there for 4 weeks this July/August, and then we must return to Poland to finish 1 more year of studying before the actual move/settlement takes place. From what I understand, such a long absence from the UK will destroy her ability to gain ILR after 2 years, presuming that she in fact even obtains the Settlement Visa considering the circumstances (refusal based on the fact we are not actually moving to the UK in the close future).
You can only rely on your British Citizenship to return to the UK if you have been a worker or self-employed in Poland.Option 2 and 3 seem cheaper and more straightforward, however I still have my reservations as to which one would be more applicable.
My parents live in the UK (in a house that they own, which is large enough to provide accommodation for us). However, the Foundation Programme is based on allocation to different areas of the UK. You might get your 1st choice (e.g. London) you might end up somewhere else (e.g. Wales, Scotland) - its really down to scoring and allocation. So its not until this time that we would really know where we are living. I was thinking of applying using my family's house and then moving to wherever the job requires. But its all very unknown until the sorting of the applications starts and at the point all the documents have to be done in order to provide valid offers of work etc.Kitty wrote:However, will you be able to satisfy the maintenance and accommodation requirements?
I was under the same impression, however I double checked with the Embassy in case there was something missing. I can honestly say that the woman on the phone during VISA enquiry hours said that as a British student in Poland I can use the EEA Family Permit to bring my wife back to the UK. I asked her "are you sure for 100%" and she went to double check with a colleague and insisted that its possible. I asked a few more questions, and then at the end, checked again to make sure I didnt misunderstand. She asked me details of my course, which Univeristy, which year and confirmed this possibility. Unfortunately, I'm still unsure of what to make of it, and instead of taking it as confirmation I'm more inclined to think she made a mistake. I would need to see it on paper, or at least said to my face (preferably with a tape-recorder in my pocket). I will call again tomorrow and ask.You can only rely on your British Citizenship to return to the UK if you have been a worker or self-employed in Poland.
If British Citizens bring back Non-EU spouses based on the EEA Family Permit (after exercising Treaty Rights Somewhere) how does that spouse then get a Residence Card once in the UK? I mean, the British National, once back in the UK, is not exercising Treaty Rights - so there would be something missing in the application.She can apply for a Family Permit to accompany you to the UK for your visit. The FP is valid for 6 months. However, she can't apply for a Residence Card in the UK if you are not exercising treaty rights there. If you are (both) going to be in Poland for the next year, I can't see how she will qualify.
I asked them about this, stating that the Family Permit is issued for 6 months and they require that 'right of work' is valid from October until August (so approx 10 months) - they responded that the evidence must be submitted completed to these timelines irrespective of whether a permit is 'likely to be extended or renewed' (like I mentioned above, I am wondering whether sending the marriage certificate and passport photocopy isnt sufficient evidence seeing as it is that which gives her the right to work - irrespective of the Family Permit or the Residence Card)I don't know if the Foundation Programme admin will accept the fact that your wife has the right to work in the UK any time you are there and exercising treaty rights. Have you spoken to them about it? I can't believe this situaiton has not occurred to them.
Polish states that she must be married for 3 years and settled in Poland in order to be issued with Polish Citizenship.Will your wife qualify at some point for Polish citizenship?
This is a last resort. Once we graduate, in order to work a registered doctors we must complete 2 years of internship (in the UK the Foundation Programme). We are really trying to find a way in which we may do this simultaneously so that we can qualify at the same time. Rather than me working, and her sitting being a housewife, or finding alternative non-medical work after 6 years of intense medical studies.Can she accompany you to the UK under the EEA rules and then start her training a year later?
You could use your parents' address if you are able to stay there initially: there is nothing to prevent you moving once you are in the UK.Szmek wrote:Thank you very much for your reply =)
My parents live in the UK (in a house that they own, which is large enough to provide accommodation for us). However, the Foundation Programme is based on allocation to different areas of the UK. You might get your 1st choice (e.g. London) you might end up somewhere else (e.g. Wales, Scotland) - its really down to scoring and allocation. So its not until this time that we would really know where we are living. I was thinking of applying using my family's house and then moving to wherever the job requires. But its all very unknown until the sorting of the applications starts and at the point all the documents have to be done in order to provide valid offers of work etc.Kitty wrote:However, will you be able to satisfy the maintenance and accommodation requirements?
The relevant part of the Regulations in the UK is here:I was under the same impression, however I double checked with the Embassy ...You can only rely on your British Citizenship to return to the UK if you have been a worker or self-employed in Poland.
I am at a bit of a loss in terms of the Foundation Programme's requirements. It's a bit tricky because your wife's right to work depends on your being in the UK at the same time. Arguably she can't present evidence one year in advance that she will have the right to work in the UK throughout 2011/2012 because (a) you won't be in the UK during that time yourself, and (b) she can't necessarily guarantee that the relationship will be subsisting for all of that time.9.—(1) If the conditions in paragraph (2) are satisfied, these Regulations apply to a person who is the family member of a United Kingdom national as if the United Kingdom national were an EEA national.
(2) The conditions are that—
(a)the United Kingdom national is residing in an EEA State as a worker or self-employed person or was so residing before returning to the United Kingdom...
The new form ask to tick if your EEA Sponsor also have a British Citizen, so you have to be very careful as we dont know the reason how they will use this against every dual national that apply for eea residence in court.Jambo wrote:The CoA confirms the applicant right to work for 6 months (as it assumes the Residence Card will be issued within that timeframe) so that won't help you.
If I got your timeline right, this is what you can try and do:
- Apply now for a Family Permit based on your Polish citizenship.
- Move to the UK with your wife for the summer placement.
- Apply for a Residence Card based on that placement (will you get paid?).
- Use that when she apply for the FP (you have until October to provide her right to work).
Residence Cards are usually issued within 3-4 months so you will need to contact the UKBA and ask for priority handling of your case if you want to have the Residence Card in time.
It is not illegal to possess dual-nationality. I have seen what you are talking about in the options: that you must declare that your spouse/sponsor has British nationality; but stating that I do surely doesnt make a difference as based on my Polish nationality I am able to pursue the EEA route if I choose to do so.The new form ask to tick if your EEA Sponsor also have a British Citizen, so you have to be very careful as we dont know the reason how they will use this against every dual national that apply for eea residence in court.
This is the easiest and most feasible route that I can think of. You just have to remember that our placement is only going to last 2 weeks (we will not be paid), and the whole stay is around 4 weeks, after which we must return to Poland to complete our studies for a whole year (we can visit, weekends, Xmas, Easter etc) - so applying for the Residence Card would look just as I described before: application and almost immediate request of our passports back (so she can travel back to Poland - I have two documents, so I can travel on the one which I didnt submit) and then sending the passport back to the HO (via post or other means).If I got your timeline right, this is what you can try and do:
- Apply now for a Family Permit based on your Polish citizenship.
- Move to the UK with your wife for the summer placement.
- Apply for a Residence Card based on that placement (will you get paid?).
- Use that when she apply for the FP (you have until October to provide her right to work).
"Find it difficult" does not mean impossible and it does not mean that she does not have 'right to work' - she DOES, just no confirmation from the HO. My line of thought is that by supplying similar evidence the employer (Foundation Programme Office) as you would to the HO (i.e. marriage certificate + my identity documents) these would prove her 'right to work'. If refused, this is discrimination and quoting the HO directly you can demonstrate that she does not need to obtain residence documents, although obviously this would make things much easier.[/quote][/u]You do not need to obtain documents confirming your right of residence in the UK if you are a family member of an EEA national.
However, you may be inconvenienced if you do not obtain this confirmation, as:
- you may have difficulty proving that you are lawfully resident in the UK;
- if you leave the UK, you will usually need to obtain an EEA family permit before returning here, in order to guarantee readmission as the family member of a qualified EEA national; and
- you may find it difficult to obtain or change employment.
It is fine that you have dual citizenship. And in fact you have the very good variety of dual citizenship in which you were Polish from birth and later, after living in the UK, became British. And you have lived and likely worked in multiple European member states. Etc...Szmek wrote:If my wife applies for the Family Permit with my Polish (EU) identity - can she be refused when through investigation it comes out that I am also a British citizen? (e.g. There is the question on the online application about whether the EU national holds a NI number - Yes I do, but as a British, not Polish national) - (we obviously do not want to lie or deceive)
Article 16 is in the section on getting permanent residence, but it would also apply for keeping official residence...Article 16 - General rule for Union citizens and their family members
3. Continuity of residence shall not be affected by temporary absences not exceeding a total of six months a year [ed: unclear if this is calendar year or rolling one year history], or by absences of a longer duration for compulsory military service, or by one absence of a maximum of 12 consecutive months for important reasons such as pregnancy and childbirth, serious illness, study or vocational training, or a posting in another Member State or a third country.
I see a problem here (not sure if I am correct) but I will never have the status of a 'qualified' EU national exercising treaty right in the UK as I hold a British passport. Therefore, although this route will work for the initial travel and first 6 months (Family Permit) my status will not be that of a 'qualified' EU national in the UK.So how this works is that you can enter the UK and will, by entering the UK, immediately take up residence. As soon as you (Mr. EU citizen) starts working, then you are considered to be "qualified", and then your wife can apply for a Residence Card. Get your application all sorted out before entering the UK so you can mail it shortly after starting to work!
How would this affect the procedure if I was to go all the way via my Polish/EU route (without using my British citizenship) but of course declaring it when asked?The new form ask to tick if your EEA Sponsor also have a British Citizen, so you have to be very careful as we dont know the reason how they will use this against every dual national that apply for eea residence in court.
This was in your original post, and is pretty much right. I have added a little bit to it.Szmek wrote:As I see it I have 3 options:
1) Apply for a Settlement VISA for her (£750 - ILR after 2yrs3months)
2) Apply via an EEA Family Permit as wife of Polish National
3) Apply via an EEA Family Permit as wife of British National [who has been working in another EU country and is returning to the UK on the basis of EU law]
I answered this before (see next quote)... They ask you this to see if you are like Ms McCarthy. But you are definitely not like her, and so you do not need to worry.Szmek wrote:I was just looking at the EEA2 form - how would British citizens who completed the EU route fill this out? As it does not state that citizens of the UK on the list of EU sponsors.
Also, I saw the question: Does the EU sponsor have British citizenship? (as quoted also by 'rachellynn1972':How would this affect the procedure if I was to go all the way via my Polish/EU route (without using my British citizenship) but of course declaring it when asked?The new form ask to tick if your EEA Sponsor also have a British Citizen, so you have to be very careful as we dont know the reason how they will use this against every dual national that apply for eea residence in court.
Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:It is fine that you have dual citizenship. And in fact you have the very good variety of dual citizenship in which you were Polish from birth and later, after living in the UK, became British. And you have lived and likely worked in multiple European member states. Etc...
(There was recently a ECJ case decided against a Ms. McCarthy. She had Irish citizenship in addition to her primary British citizenship. But she had no Irish passport (at least originally), and was not working, and had never lived outside the UK. And she lost in her attempt to be regarded, for the purpose of free movement, as Irish.)
You can come and go to the UK as you please. That is beyond question.Szmek wrote:Because as a British citizen I do not have to be a 'qualified' person and have the automatic right to reside within the UK as I please. I shouldnt have to declare employment/self-employment/student/jobseeking status. But how does this affect my wife's application?
Are you going to be paid any money in the UK this year?Szmek wrote:No I am not currently employed. I am a full-time student of Medicine (5th year of a 6-year programme). Apart from a few odd-jobs of translation work, I dont work and I'm fully supported by my parents (tuition, expenses)
If you got a UK route visa, you should be able to then (if outside of the UK) apply for an EEA Family Permit with no problem. I am not sure about the other way around, but I suspect there would also be no problem.On a different note - am I right in understanding that if the EU route was established (via a Family Permit), she could not then apply via UK law until it expires?