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EEA Family Permit for Wife of dual British/Polish National

Use this section for any queries concerning the EU Settlement Scheme, for applicants holding pre-settled and settled status.

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Szmek
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EEA Family Permit for Wife of dual British/Polish National

Post by Szmek » Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:23 pm

Hi all - I have a major predicament that I cannot find a solution to. Please help.

I have a dual nationality British and Polish (Polish from birth, and British after living there with my parents for a good 15 years).
I came back to Poland 5 years ago to study Medicine, met a beautiful girl from Belarus (also studying Medicine), we dated for 4 years and now we are married (as of May 2011). I want to go back to the UK when I finish my studies (next year) and do my training in the NHS, together with my wife (who will also graduate at the same time as me).

As I see it I have 3 options:
1) Apply for a Settlement VISA for her (£750 - ILR after 2yrs3months)
2) Apply via an EEA Family Permit as wife of Polish National
3) Apply via an EEA Family Permit as wife of British National

The problem lies in the fact that the Foundation Programme for Doctors in Training require the application to be processed 1 year in advance, and throughout this time the application is checked, scored and allocated. So the application is made this August 2011 to start work in August 2012. As one of the requirements it states that my wife must hold 'right to work in the UK' from October 2011 until August 2012 to be considered eligible and must have evidence of this.
On top of this, we are planning on coming to the UK this August to do a placement at one of the NHS Hospitals to gain some experience, so therefore she needs entry clearance for this July/August aswell.

The problem with option 1 (Settlement VISA) is that we are not moving right now to settle in the UK. We plan to go there for 4 weeks this July/August, and then we must return to Poland to finish 1 more year of studying before the actual move/settlement takes place. From what I understand, such a long absence from the UK will destroy her ability to gain ILR after 2 years, presuming that she in fact even obtains the Settlement Visa considering the circumstances (refusal based on the fact we are not actually moving to the UK in the close future).

Option 2 and 3 seem cheaper and more straightforward, however I still have my reservations as to which one would be more applicable.
Option 2 - applying as a spouse of a Polish National - the EEA Family Permit should be granted, however it remains valid only for 6months (not long enough for the Foundation Programme). Also, how would she apply for the Residency Card in the UK, when the supporting documents require that me, her husband, is working/seeking work (exercising treaty rights) when in fact I will be working as a British citizen back in the UK (not a Polish one)? Is it not evidence enough that she has a marriage certificate with a EEA national that proves her right to work?

Option 3 - applying as spouse of a British National - although I have my concerns on whether I am eligible (not working, not self-employed but rather a student) - however after a phone call to the Visa Dept at the British Embassy in Warsaw today it was told to me that she can apply via this route (I am a student and we are married) - I hope the lady didn't make a mistake; having this on paper would definitely make calmer. Via this route, there is a problem with my supporting documents. I am not registered as a British National in Poland (as I also hold Polish citizenship) therefore I have no documents under my British nationality that act as evidence of my legal stay here in Poland (bank statements, mobile phone contracts, tenancy agreements are all done using my Polish documents.

Can someone advise as to which options are most feasible, in order to satisfy the NHS with 'rights to work' and in order to gain entry clearance for the UK for this summer?
I think the options which consider my British nationality are better, because they provide stronger grounds for British citizenship for her in the distant future - am I right in thinking this way?

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Re: EEA Family Permit for Wife of dual British/Polish Nation

Post by Kitty » Tue Jun 28, 2011 3:24 pm

The problem with option 1 (Settlement VISA) is that we are not moving right now to settle in the UK. We plan to go there for 4 weeks this July/August, and then we must return to Poland to finish 1 more year of studying before the actual move/settlement takes place. From what I understand, such a long absence from the UK will destroy her ability to gain ILR after 2 years, presuming that she in fact even obtains the Settlement Visa considering the circumstances (refusal based on the fact we are not actually moving to the UK in the close future).
She can (at a cost, obviously) extend her leave to remain in the spouse category if she doesn't make the full 2 years.

However, will you be able to satisfy the maintenance and accommodation requirements?
Option 2 and 3 seem cheaper and more straightforward, however I still have my reservations as to which one would be more applicable.
You can only rely on your British Citizenship to return to the UK if you have been a worker or self-employed in Poland.

She can apply for a Family Permit to accompany you to the UK for your visit. The FP is valid for 6 months. However, she can't apply for a Residence Card in the UK if you are not exercising treaty rights there. If you are (both) going to be in Poland for the next year, I can't see how she will qualify.

I don't know if the Foundation Programme admin will accept the fact that your wife has the right to work in the UK any time you are there and exercising treaty rights. Have you spoken to them about it? I can't believe this situaiton has not occurred to them.

Will your wife qualify at some point for Polish citizenship?

Can she accompany you to the UK under the EEA rules and then start her training a year later?

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Post by Jambo » Tue Jun 28, 2011 3:36 pm

Also note that the EEA route is cheaper (free) but will take longer for naturalisation as a British citizen (5 year instead of 3) if this is something she might consider in future.

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Re: EEA Family Permit for Wife of dual British/Polish Nation

Post by Szmek » Tue Jun 28, 2011 4:19 pm

Thank you very much for your reply =)
Kitty wrote:However, will you be able to satisfy the maintenance and accommodation requirements?
My parents live in the UK (in a house that they own, which is large enough to provide accommodation for us). However, the Foundation Programme is based on allocation to different areas of the UK. You might get your 1st choice (e.g. London) you might end up somewhere else (e.g. Wales, Scotland) - its really down to scoring and allocation. So its not until this time that we would really know where we are living. I was thinking of applying using my family's house and then moving to wherever the job requires. But its all very unknown until the sorting of the applications starts and at the point all the documents have to be done in order to provide valid offers of work etc.
You can only rely on your British Citizenship to return to the UK if you have been a worker or self-employed in Poland.
I was under the same impression, however I double checked with the Embassy in case there was something missing. I can honestly say that the woman on the phone during VISA enquiry hours said that as a British student in Poland I can use the EEA Family Permit to bring my wife back to the UK. I asked her "are you sure for 100%" and she went to double check with a colleague and insisted that its possible. I asked a few more questions, and then at the end, checked again to make sure I didnt misunderstand. She asked me details of my course, which Univeristy, which year and confirmed this possibility. Unfortunately, I'm still unsure of what to make of it, and instead of taking it as confirmation I'm more inclined to think she made a mistake. I would need to see it on paper, or at least said to my face (preferably with a tape-recorder in my pocket). I will call again tomorrow and ask.
She can apply for a Family Permit to accompany you to the UK for your visit. The FP is valid for 6 months. However, she can't apply for a Residence Card in the UK if you are not exercising treaty rights there. If you are (both) going to be in Poland for the next year, I can't see how she will qualify.
If British Citizens bring back Non-EU spouses based on the EEA Family Permit (after exercising Treaty Rights Somewhere) how does that spouse then get a Residence Card once in the UK? I mean, the British National, once back in the UK, is not exercising Treaty Rights - so there would be something missing in the application.

But also, the Residence Card is a form of evidence of a 'right of residence' and therefore evidence of 'right of work' - however it is not obligatory to apply for it. 'Right of work' doesnt have to be issued by the HomeOffice (it says so on the UKBA website) they just advise that it 'may be difficult to obtain or change work'. The 'right of work' stems from the marriage to an EU National and is not something that can be issued or requested. Its just a matter of evidence of it. I was thinking whether a Marriage Certificate and my passport would be enough - if questioned it can be confirmed by the UKBA or HomeOffice that such a person has 'rights to work' by virtue of the marriage. [The Family Permit works as Entry Clearance just to get into the UK]
I don't know if the Foundation Programme admin will accept the fact that your wife has the right to work in the UK any time you are there and exercising treaty rights. Have you spoken to them about it? I can't believe this situaiton has not occurred to them.
I asked them about this, stating that the Family Permit is issued for 6 months and they require that 'right of work' is valid from October until August (so approx 10 months) - they responded that the evidence must be submitted completed to these timelines irrespective of whether a permit is 'likely to be extended or renewed' (like I mentioned above, I am wondering whether sending the marriage certificate and passport photocopy isnt sufficient evidence seeing as it is that which gives her the right to work - irrespective of the Family Permit or the Residence Card)
Will your wife qualify at some point for Polish citizenship?
Polish states that she must be married for 3 years and settled in Poland in order to be issued with Polish Citizenship.
Can she accompany you to the UK under the EEA rules and then start her training a year later?
This is a last resort. Once we graduate, in order to work a registered doctors we must complete 2 years of internship (in the UK the Foundation Programme). We are really trying to find a way in which we may do this simultaneously so that we can qualify at the same time. Rather than me working, and her sitting being a housewife, or finding alternative non-medical work after 6 years of intense medical studies.

What is the situation for those who have dual-citizenship (i.e. UK and EU)? Because from what I understand these persons have the option of going through either UK Law (Settlement Visa) or EU Law (Family Permit). Do those who choose the Family Permit route have issues back in the UK when it comes to the Residence Card?

Thank you so much for your reply

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Post by Szmek » Tue Jun 28, 2011 4:21 pm

I understand that the Naturalisation takes longer via the EU route, but this is something that we are willing to forgo. As long as we are living together and can start a career and family life we will be happy. The benefits of British Citizenship are a secondary priority.

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Re: EEA Family Permit for Wife of dual British/Polish Nation

Post by Kitty » Tue Jun 28, 2011 7:12 pm

Szmek wrote:Thank you very much for your reply =)
Kitty wrote:However, will you be able to satisfy the maintenance and accommodation requirements?
My parents live in the UK (in a house that they own, which is large enough to provide accommodation for us). However, the Foundation Programme is based on allocation to different areas of the UK. You might get your 1st choice (e.g. London) you might end up somewhere else (e.g. Wales, Scotland) - its really down to scoring and allocation. So its not until this time that we would really know where we are living. I was thinking of applying using my family's house and then moving to wherever the job requires. But its all very unknown until the sorting of the applications starts and at the point all the documents have to be done in order to provide valid offers of work etc.
You could use your parents' address if you are able to stay there initially: there is nothing to prevent you moving once you are in the UK.

Other potential problems with the spouse visa are that your wife might need to prove on arrival in the UK that her circumstances have not changed since the visa was issued. For instance, you should travel with her, and carry up to date evidence of your parents' offer to accommodate you and of your finances.
You can only rely on your British Citizenship to return to the UK if you have been a worker or self-employed in Poland.
I was under the same impression, however I double checked with the Embassy ...
The relevant part of the Regulations in the UK is here:

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2006 ... ion/9/made
9.—(1) If the conditions in paragraph (2) are satisfied, these Regulations apply to a person who is the family member of a United Kingdom national as if the United Kingdom national were an EEA national.

(2) The conditions are that—

(a)the United Kingdom national is residing in an EEA State as a worker or self-employed person or was so residing before returning to the United Kingdom...
I am at a bit of a loss in terms of the Foundation Programme's requirements. It's a bit tricky because your wife's right to work depends on your being in the UK at the same time. Arguably she can't present evidence one year in advance that she will have the right to work in the UK throughout 2011/2012 because (a) you won't be in the UK during that time yourself, and (b) she can't necessarily guarantee that the relationship will be subsisting for all of that time.

It's a difficult one: I am surprised the FP can't be more helpful. Hmmm..

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Post by Szmek » Tue Jun 28, 2011 7:44 pm

This legislation is what I have obtained through many sources - I have no idea why the lady at the Embassy would lead me to believe otherwise.

However, from what I understand this does not stop me using the EU legislation as a Polish national and for her to application to be based on her being a wife of a Polish national?
I have heard that this option is possible for those who have dual-nationality (one UK and one EU) however I have failed in finding anyone who has successfully gone down this route.

Also, would it not be feasible that by going down this route we could apply for a Residence Card during our very short stay in the UK, followed by an almost immediate withdrawal of passport for travel purposes? The procedure last months (up to 6) from what I have read on various forums including this one. She could then be issued a CoA (which states right of work) and return the passport to the UK for the Residence Card to be issued whilst actually being abroad.

Or would this route be illegal?

Unfortunately the FP administrators have issued the guidelines and these must be kept to precisely in order to be considered. There are many applicants and they do not seem to care if they have made rules that discriminate against those which do not possess the 'correct' documents.

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Post by Jambo » Tue Jun 28, 2011 8:51 pm

The CoA confirms the applicant right to work for 6 months (as it assumes the Residence Card will be issued within that timeframe) so that won't help you.

If I got your timeline right, this is what you can try and do:

- Apply now for a Family Permit based on your Polish citizenship.
- Move to the UK with your wife for the summer placement.
- Apply for a Residence Card based on that placement (will you get paid?).
- Use that when she apply for the FP (you have until October to provide her right to work).

Residence Cards are usually issued within 3-4 months so you will need to contact the UKBA and ask for priority handling of your case if you want to have the Residence Card in time.

EDIT:

Reading your original post again, you are probably better off with the UK route. It will make it easier as it will provide your wife an entry clearance for the summer and an evidence for the FP application. You can always apply to extend it if your wife won't meet the ILR requirements.
Last edited by Jambo on Tue Jun 28, 2011 9:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by rachellynn1972 » Tue Jun 28, 2011 9:10 pm

Jambo wrote:The CoA confirms the applicant right to work for 6 months (as it assumes the Residence Card will be issued within that timeframe) so that won't help you.

If I got your timeline right, this is what you can try and do:

- Apply now for a Family Permit based on your Polish citizenship.
- Move to the UK with your wife for the summer placement.
- Apply for a Residence Card based on that placement (will you get paid?).
- Use that when she apply for the FP (you have until October to provide her right to work).

Residence Cards are usually issued within 3-4 months so you will need to contact the UKBA and ask for priority handling of your case if you want to have the Residence Card in time.
The new form ask to tick if your EEA Sponsor also have a British Citizen, so you have to be very careful as we dont know the reason how they will use this against every dual national that apply for eea residence in court.

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Post by Szmek » Thu Jun 30, 2011 10:58 am

Thanks to everyone for their replies on this post - it means a lot to me to - hopefully I'll find a way to make everything work.
The new form ask to tick if your EEA Sponsor also have a British Citizen, so you have to be very careful as we dont know the reason how they will use this against every dual national that apply for eea residence in court.
It is not illegal to possess dual-nationality. I have seen what you are talking about in the options: that you must declare that your spouse/sponsor has British nationality; but stating that I do surely doesnt make a difference as based on my Polish nationality I am able to pursue the EEA route if I choose to do so.

I am still looking for someone who has completed this route i.e. British and EU national who has gone down the EEA route (not the British Immigration law) and was successful in doing so? Anybody know of such a case or can link to one on this forum?
If I got your timeline right, this is what you can try and do:

- Apply now for a Family Permit based on your Polish citizenship.
- Move to the UK with your wife for the summer placement.
- Apply for a Residence Card based on that placement (will you get paid?).
- Use that when she apply for the FP (you have until October to provide her right to work).
This is the easiest and most feasible route that I can think of. You just have to remember that our placement is only going to last 2 weeks (we will not be paid), and the whole stay is around 4 weeks, after which we must return to Poland to complete our studies for a whole year (we can visit, weekends, Xmas, Easter etc) - so applying for the Residence Card would look just as I described before: application and almost immediate request of our passports back (so she can travel back to Poland - I have two documents, so I can travel on the one which I didnt submit) and then sending the passport back to the HO (via post or other means).

Regarding the Family Permit, CoA and Residence Card - these act as confirmation of a status and the UKBA-HO website states:
You do not need to obtain documents confirming your right of residence in the UK if you are a family member of an EEA national.
However, you may be inconvenienced if you do not obtain this confirmation, as:
- you may have difficulty proving that you are lawfully resident in the UK;
- if you leave the UK, you will usually need to obtain an EEA family permit before returning here, in order to guarantee readmission as the family member of a qualified EEA national; and
- you may find it difficult to obtain or change employment.
"Find it difficult" does not mean impossible and it does not mean that she does not have 'right to work' - she DOES, just no confirmation from the HO. My line of thought is that by supplying similar evidence the employer (Foundation Programme Office) as you would to the HO (i.e. marriage certificate + my identity documents) these would prove her 'right to work'. If refused, this is discrimination and quoting the HO directly you can demonstrate that she does not need to obtain residence documents, although obviously this would make things much easier.[/quote][/u]

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Post by Szmek » Mon Jul 04, 2011 12:15 am

Dear all, I have a quick question:

If my wife applies for the Family Permit with my Polish (EU) identity - can she be refused when through investigation it comes out that I am also a British citizen? (e.g. There is the question on the online application about whether the EU national holds a NI number - Yes I do, but as a British, not Polish national) - (we obviously do not want to lie or deceive)

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Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Mon Jul 04, 2011 4:56 am

Szmek wrote:If my wife applies for the Family Permit with my Polish (EU) identity - can she be refused when through investigation it comes out that I am also a British citizen? (e.g. There is the question on the online application about whether the EU national holds a NI number - Yes I do, but as a British, not Polish national) - (we obviously do not want to lie or deceive)
It is fine that you have dual citizenship. And in fact you have the very good variety of dual citizenship in which you were Polish from birth and later, after living in the UK, became British. And you have lived and likely worked in multiple European member states. Etc...

(There was recently a ECJ case decided against a Ms. McCarthy. She had Irish citizenship in addition to her primary British citizenship. But she had no Irish passport (at least originally), and was not working, and had never lived outside the UK. And she lost in her attempt to be regarded, for the purpose of free movement, as Irish.)

I may be missing something, but I do not know of any good reason for you to enter the UK with your wife as anything other than Polish.

So how this works is that you can enter the UK and will, by entering the UK, immediately take up residence. As soon as you (Mr. EU citizen) starts working, then you are considered to be "qualified", and then your wife can apply for a Residence Card. Get your application all sorted out before entering the UK so you can mail it shortly after starting to work!

Reading the Directive about continuity of residence, it looks like it may be OK. You can be away for 6 months normally, but you also can be away for a one-time 12 months for study or vocational training. That is what you will be doing?
Article 16 - General rule for Union citizens and their family members
3. Continuity of residence shall not be affected by temporary absences not exceeding a total of six months a year [ed: unclear if this is calendar year or rolling one year history], or by absences of a longer duration for compulsory military service, or by one absence of a maximum of 12 consecutive months for important reasons such as pregnancy and childbirth, serious illness, study or vocational training, or a posting in another Member State or a third country.
Article 16 is in the section on getting permanent residence, but it would also apply for keeping official residence...

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Post by Szmek » Mon Jul 04, 2011 12:17 pm

Thanks for your post
So how this works is that you can enter the UK and will, by entering the UK, immediately take up residence. As soon as you (Mr. EU citizen) starts working, then you are considered to be "qualified", and then your wife can apply for a Residence Card. Get your application all sorted out before entering the UK so you can mail it shortly after starting to work!
I see a problem here (not sure if I am correct) but I will never have the status of a 'qualified' EU national exercising treaty right in the UK as I hold a British passport. Therefore, although this route will work for the initial travel and first 6 months (Family Permit) my status will not be that of a 'qualified' EU national in the UK.

So, I'm not sure whether I am right in thinking this, she would be able to get the initial entry clearance (based on Family Permit) but not Residence Card based on lack of evidence of a 'qualified' person - unless that application for the Residency Card is done under my British nationality (such as would be the case that if if I went down the Surindher Singh route).

This way the initial Family Permit would be done under my Polish documents, whilst the Residence Card under my British documents. Does the Residence Card require the same documents that were required for the Family Permit (i.e. is the validity of the Family Permit checked) or would it work as a separate application? Would this be fraudulent? [In other words, in the application for her Residence Card, would I have to document how I got the right to bring her into the UK under Surindher Singh case - with evidence of employment in a different EU country, or would that be omitted and only our situation in the UK conisdered?]

You see I am concerned that as a student I do not have the ability to follow the Surindher Singh case (as I am not working nor self-employed) (although the status of a student is considered exercising Treaty Rights in the EU law, this is not in the UK implementation where it considers only economic treaty rights, namely working) [Correct me if I am wrong please]

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Post by Szmek » Mon Jul 04, 2011 1:39 pm

I was just looking at the EEA2 form - how would British citizens who completed the EU route fill this out? As it does not state that citizens of the UK on the list of EU sponsors.

Also, I saw the question: Does the EU sponsor have British citizenship? (as quoted also by 'rachellynn1972':
The new form ask to tick if your EEA Sponsor also have a British Citizen, so you have to be very careful as we dont know the reason how they will use this against every dual national that apply for eea residence in court.
How would this affect the procedure if I was to go all the way via my Polish/EU route (without using my British citizenship) but of course declaring it when asked?

Because as a British citizen I do not have to be a 'qualified' person and have the automatic right to reside within the UK as I please. I shouldnt have to declare employment/self-employment/student/jobseeking status. But how does this affect my wife's application?

[Confused beyond belief]

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Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Mon Jul 04, 2011 2:10 pm

Breath deeply and relax. I am going to get a coffee and then will try to clarify. You are muddling up a number of things.

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Re: EEA Family Permit for Wife of dual British/Polish Nation

Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Mon Jul 04, 2011 2:41 pm

Szmek wrote:As I see it I have 3 options:
1) Apply for a Settlement VISA for her (£750 - ILR after 2yrs3months)
2) Apply via an EEA Family Permit as wife of Polish National
3) Apply via an EEA Family Permit as wife of British National [who has been working in another EU country and is returning to the UK on the basis of EU law]
This was in your original post, and is pretty much right. I have added a little bit to it.

(1) is done under UK law. I do not know much about it, but it is likely to be longer and more complicated than an EU law visa.

(2) Is pretty straight forward. You do not seem comfortable with this one, and I am not sure why. Maybe you can clarify?

(3) This is legally almost exactly like (2) for you. The application for the EEA FP might be a little more complicated, but you will be considered, for the purposes of this application, like you are the citizen of another EU country coming to the UK. ====> so just like option (2).

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Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Mon Jul 04, 2011 2:48 pm

Szmek wrote:I was just looking at the EEA2 form - how would British citizens who completed the EU route fill this out? As it does not state that citizens of the UK on the list of EU sponsors.

Also, I saw the question: Does the EU sponsor have British citizenship? (as quoted also by 'rachellynn1972':
The new form ask to tick if your EEA Sponsor also have a British Citizen, so you have to be very careful as we dont know the reason how they will use this against every dual national that apply for eea residence in court.
How would this affect the procedure if I was to go all the way via my Polish/EU route (without using my British citizenship) but of course declaring it when asked?
I answered this before (see next quote)... They ask you this to see if you are like Ms McCarthy. But you are definitely not like her, and so you do not need to worry.
Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:It is fine that you have dual citizenship. And in fact you have the very good variety of dual citizenship in which you were Polish from birth and later, after living in the UK, became British. And you have lived and likely worked in multiple European member states. Etc...

(There was recently a ECJ case decided against a Ms. McCarthy. She had Irish citizenship in addition to her primary British citizenship. But she had no Irish passport (at least originally), and was not working, and had never lived outside the UK. And she lost in her attempt to be regarded, for the purpose of free movement, as Irish.)
Szmek wrote:Because as a British citizen I do not have to be a 'qualified' person and have the automatic right to reside within the UK as I please. I shouldnt have to declare employment/self-employment/student/jobseeking status. But how does this affect my wife's application?
You can come and go to the UK as you please. That is beyond question.

But if you would like your wife to come with you, you will need to "declare employment/self-employment/student/jobseeking status" no matter which route you go down. If you bring her in under UK law you will have to do it, and if you bring her in under EU law you will have to do it.

Actually that is not totally true. If you apply as a Polish person, then details of what you are presently doing in Poland is irrelevant. But under all three options, what you do in the UK is important. The requirements under EU law are pretty minimal, but you do need to be doing something.


Are you working in Poland? Getting paid to do things?

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Post by Szmek » Mon Jul 04, 2011 6:33 pm

No I am not currently employed. I am a full-time student of Medicine (5th year of a 6-year programme). Apart from a few odd-jobs of translation work, I dont work and I'm fully supported by my parents (tuition, expenses)

By the looks of options we have at the moment I think we will be applying via the Polish EU National route for the Family Permit (considering that I dont think I fall into the Surinder Singh case, and the Settlement Visa is expensive, requires English testing, and runs the risk of refusal, based on the fact that neither of us are in employment, both students, supported by parents, and our settlement wouldnt actually occur until July 2012)

Then according to our plans we will try to persuade the NHS Foundation Programme that she has a right to work based on marriage and the Family Permit. [Problem can lie here, as she could lose the fairness of her application and therefore can lose her opportunity for a job in the NHS FP - these recruitments work once a year only - so losing out in the application means should would not be able to work as a doctor in training for a whole year)

Then, closer to July 2012 we will apply for a Family Permit again using the same route and move to the UK. Once working, the Residence Card should be issued.

How does this scan? Of course, the whole problem of the 'right to work' for the FP exists...

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Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Mon Jul 04, 2011 6:52 pm

Szmek wrote:No I am not currently employed. I am a full-time student of Medicine (5th year of a 6-year programme). Apart from a few odd-jobs of translation work, I dont work and I'm fully supported by my parents (tuition, expenses)
Are you going to be paid any money in the UK this year?

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Post by Szmek » Mon Jul 04, 2011 7:04 pm

Probably not. I'll be in the UK for a 2-week unpaid placement at a NHS hospital (together with my wife) then returning to Poland to study from October until June 2012 (next year)

I would work, but with the given situation, finding employment for 2 weeks part or full time is near impossible (and has been every summer ever since I started studying). Employers and agencies seem to hate part time student seasonal workers. Plus I have internships to attend at hospitals. All unpaid and required by my course.

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Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Mon Jul 04, 2011 7:12 pm

Sorry, I was assuming you were going to be paid for your August thing.

But I think your plan sounds good: She applies for EEA FP to accompany you in August. I would apply as soon as possible to get it out of the way.

I would suggest you start NOW working to convince the NHS Foundation Programme of her right to work. You should immediately (today!) involve Solvit. They have experience working on this sort of thing but sometimes take a while to get up to speed.

You need to be very clear with everyone that you will also be in the UK and working at all times that your wife is there. She can not do this alone in the UK if, for example, you decide to work in France instead.

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Post by Szmek » Mon Jul 04, 2011 8:20 pm

Yes this seems like the most probable course of action for the EU route.

We've just been discussing the whole thing with my wife (as I've been stressing myself about this for months) and we actually think that we will pursue the Settlement Visa first. If anything should go wrong, we can always pursue the EEA route.
This would undoubtedly give her a 2year+ right to work, which should allow us to do everything that we need to do.

We have most of the documents as they overlap:
1) Evidence of Relationship
2) Financial Support from my Parents in the UK (with savings account statements to support us until we are earning)
3) Accommodation from my Parents in the UK (report is in progress - to prove adequate living conditions)

- but we need the English Language requirements test to do

I think this would be the only and ultimate solution as an all-in-one package that would allow us to complete the steps required by the NHS Foundation Programme.

My main concern would be whether it can be granted given that we still have 10 months of studying to finish before we move to the UK. If these would be grounds to refusing the issuing the visa, or just as an obstacle in getting the ILR after the 2+years.

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Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Mon Jul 04, 2011 8:27 pm

Good luck. I am unclear if your application under UK law will work, but I am very curious to know how things develop!

If you get turned down under UK law, remember that you can immediately apply using your Polish passport for an EEA FP.

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Post by Szmek » Mon Jul 04, 2011 9:01 pm

Well the the way of the UK Law us subject to rejection. While the EU is an automatic right he has from marriage, in our case guaranteed 100%. But it is the circumstances and dates/timelines that play such a critical role.

On a different note - am I right in understanding that if the EU route was established (via a Family Permit), she could not then apply via UK law until it expires?

Also - is a Family Permit a Single or Mutliple Entry Clearance?

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Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Mon Jul 04, 2011 9:48 pm

The UK usually issues EEA Family Permits with a 6 month validity, multiple entry.
On a different note - am I right in understanding that if the EU route was established (via a Family Permit), she could not then apply via UK law until it expires?
If you got a UK route visa, you should be able to then (if outside of the UK) apply for an EEA Family Permit with no problem. I am not sure about the other way around, but I suspect there would also be no problem.

But why?

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