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Help EEA Italian Citizen, 177 days absent the past 12 months

A section for posts relating to applications for Naturalisation or Registration as a British Citizen. Naturalisation

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177DaysOver
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Help EEA Italian Citizen, 177 days absent the past 12 months

Post by 177DaysOver » Mon Apr 24, 2017 11:54 pm

Please help a desperate EEA citizen!

Hello,

I'm an EEA citizen of Italy. I received my permanent residency card in February 2017. On my papers, it said I acquired the PR on the 4th April 2016 and I could apply from this date on 4th April 2017.

I have never been away from the UK more than a couple of times a year with the exception of the last 12 months I was in Germany from 1st Aug 2016 to 16 January 2017. I also went to Germany a few days in February and March. My total absences so far is 177 days.

I read on the application form that there is a chance for consideration if I can demonstrate links with the UK, and part of my state here. What are some examples of links with the UK, for a non married woman, with no children or a property? I sold my car in December, and the only link I have is my mother in which I have been living in the UK with since I moved here in 2007. I went to university for 3 years and started working full time in December 2010 until May 2017, I was made redundant and started self-employment in June 2017.

I have been living with my mother all those years and currently, I went to Germany to work temporary as a photographer and designer (self-employed), while paying my taxes in the UK, my only bank and also joint account is with my mother. I have a very active bank account too.

I have always had full time work in the UK, with the exception of last year where I was made redundant from my company in May and started my business as a self employed in June.

In August I went to Germany for some fresh air and experience as a photographer and graphic designer.

I left the UK by car, on the tunnel to France (01/Aug/2016) and returned by Air via Stansted (16/01/2017)

I've sent my tax to my accountant to do my taxes here in the UK recently. This is my first year as self employed.

The only "state" I had was my car, and I sold it on the 31st of December. I have savings on my UK bank, and an investment account in the UK.

I have had my UK bank account active every month, my mother would deposit money on my behalf.

I need to know if 177 days absent would be bad on my application, and if so how could I word my case so that the HO officer would be more inclined to grant me citizenship?

Or should I omit the fact I was away since August, since I heard there are no checks when you leave the country.

I meet all the other requirements, university in the UK, life in the UK, 5 years of full time employment history and the last year as a self employed person. I have 2 referees, 1 professional body, 1 British over 25 years old, University transcript as proof of english knowledge. The only thing is the days I overstayed.

I need to travel a few more times in order for my Photography business to function in Europe, but I'm stuck in the UK because I don't want to overstay the 180 days.

I'm saving money and investing so I can buy a house, I have a total of £20K saved and invested. But for my business to work I need to travel in order to make money in this line of business. The UK is my home, and I wanna live here forever, but I also need to travel and right now I can't make money because I can't promote I'm willing to travel.


I applied for a SAR on March 17th, but I have not heard from them yet with my travel history.

Kind regards,
R.

salmintin
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Re: Help EEA Italian Citizen, 177 days absent the past 12 mo

Post by salmintin » Tue Apr 25, 2017 6:47 am

I think they normally like to see that you own a house and have a family (children etc) here, however that's not the case with you. You can try to demonstrate you left the UK with the intention of returning. Did you leave your stuff at a storage? Or were you still paying rent in the UK?

I recommend speaking with a good (= not cheap) immigration solicitor, but honestly I think your application is unlikely to be successful. I would wait until the end of the year when your absences drop below 90 days and you will have absolutely no reason to worry. Do you actually have a good reason to apply now instead of waiting a few months until this problem will literally disappear?

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Re: Help EEA Italian Citizen, 177 days absent the past 12 mo

Post by Casa » Tue Apr 25, 2017 9:35 am

Unless you are prepared to lose your application fee, I suggest that you wait until you have no more than 90 days of absence in the 12 month period prior to applying.

At present you are almost double the permitted absence.
(Casa, not CR001)
Please don't send me PMs asking for immigration advice on posts that are on the open forum. If I haven't responded there, it's because I don't have the answer. I'm a moderator, not a legal professional.

177DaysOver
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Re: Help EEA Italian Citizen, 177 days absent the past 12 mo

Post by 177DaysOver » Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:11 am

Casa wrote:Unless you are prepared to lose your application fee, I suggest that you wait until you have no more than 90 days of absence in the 12 month period prior to applying.

At present you are almost double the permitted absence.
But what I'm trying to hold on to is the fact that I have not exceeded the 180days and there is a clause that says that they "consider discretion".

I have been in the UK since 2007, in which I went to university for 3 years, then immediately started to work full time in my career path as a Digital Designer. Only last year in May I was made redundant and started my self employment in a similar career path still as designer but mainly photographer.

I can prove I have been here for 10 years and that I have never been absent more than 30 days in a years since 2007 with the exception of the last 12 months.

I went to Germany to experience as an international photographer to get mentoring and learn the language as well.

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Re: Help EEA Italian Citizen, 177 days absent the past 12 mo

Post by blessedtoday » Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:24 am

177DaysOver wrote:
Casa wrote:Unless you are prepared to lose your application fee, I suggest that you wait until you have no more than 90 days of absence in the 12 month period prior to applying.

At present you are almost double the permitted absence.
But what I'm trying to hold on to is the fact that I have not exceeded the 180days and there is a clause that says that they "consider discretion".

I have been in the UK since 2007, in which I went to university for 3 years, then immediately started to work full time in my career path as a Digital Designer. Only last year in May I was made redundant and started my self employment in a similar career path still as designer but mainly photographer.

I can prove I have been here for 10 years and that I have never been absent more than 30 days in a years since 2007 with the exception of the last 12 months.

I went to Germany to experience as an international photographer to get mentoring and learn the language as well.
As you have already been advised you need to wait till your absences are below 90 days within 12 months or you could just go ahead and apply and risk a denial and loose all that money

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Re: Help EEA Italian Citizen, 177 days absent the past 12 mo

Post by salmintin » Tue Apr 25, 2017 12:18 pm

177DaysOver wrote:
Casa wrote:Unless you are prepared to lose your application fee, I suggest that you wait until you have no more than 90 days of absence in the 12 month period prior to applying.

At present you are almost double the permitted absence.
But what I'm trying to hold on to is the fact that I have not exceeded the 180days and there is a clause that says that they "consider discretion".
You exceeded the 90 days requirement by almost an extra 90 days! This is the first thing you need to keep in mind. Yes, you are under 180 days (barely), but you need to give them very good reasons to disregard your absences.

Speak with a solicitor, but honestly I think any solicitor worth his/her money will tell you to wait, because from what you're saying, I think your chances of success are 0 and you will lose time and money. Just wait a few more months.

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Re: Help EEA Italian Citizen, 177 days absent the past 12 mo

Post by CR001 » Tue Apr 25, 2017 12:35 pm

177DaysOver wrote:But what I'm trying to hold on to is the fact that I have not exceeded the 180days and there is a clause that says that they "consider discretion".
Not sure why you say this about 'not exceeded 180 days'. There is no limit like this for citizenship that you cannot be absent for more than 180 days otherwise continuity is broken etc and you should not confuse the EU rules/UK Immigration rules absence limits with citizenship limits.

The requirement is no more than 450 days absence in the 5 years immediately preceding your application and no more than 90 days in the final 12 months immediately preceding your application. This is in addition to being physically present in the UK on the exact same date 5 years ago as the day you apply now. Citizenship is based on laws, not a 'rules'. You would be asking for discretion, not guaranteed and HO do not have to exercise discretion as the laws and requirements are clear.

You have nothing concrete or substantive to prove the majority of your estate etc is in the UK. Your mother being here doesn't count, neither does having a bank account.

Even a solicitor (wouldn't advise this to be honest) will likely tell you your application will fail.
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Re: Help EEA Italian Citizen, 177 days absent the past 12 mo

Post by 177DaysOver » Tue Apr 25, 2017 3:30 pm

CR001 wrote:
177DaysOver wrote:But what I'm trying to hold on to is the fact that I have not exceeded the 180days and there is a clause that says that they "consider discretion".
Not sure why you say this about 'not exceeded 180 days'. There is no limit like this for citizenship that you cannot be absent for more than 180 days otherwise continuity is broken etc and you should not confuse the EU rules/UK Immigration rules absence limits with citizenship limits.

The requirement is no more than 450 days absence in the 5 years immediately preceding your application and no more than 90 days in the final 12 months immediately preceding your application. This is in addition to being physically present in the UK on the exact same date 5 years ago as the day you apply now. Citizenship is based on laws, not a 'rules'. You would be asking for discretion, not guaranteed and HO do not have to exercise discretion as the laws and requirements are clear.

You have nothing concrete or substantive to prove the majority of your estate etc is in the UK. Your mother being here doesn't count, neither does having a bank account.


Even a solicitor (wouldn't advise this to be honest) will likely tell you your application will fail.

I say that because I saw this info on the application form guide/booklet here, page 8:https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... y_2017.pdf
(101 - 179 days) Total number of absences normally disregarded only if all
other requirements are met and:
  • • you have demonstrated links with the UK through
    presence of family, and established home and a
    substantial part of your estate.
I have all my state in the UK even though my state is not a home, I have money invested and savings. Also my mother which I have lived all my life with, and have supported financially. We live in the same property owned by her UK boyfriend.

I wanted to apply for the citizenship now, so I could try and make a name for myself as an international photographer in Europe with my business.

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Re: Help EEA Italian Citizen, 177 days absent the past 12 mo

Post by CR001 » Tue Apr 25, 2017 3:33 pm

Your choice if you choose to apply, but you do risk losing your fee if you are refused and this will be after waiting a few months for citizenship already.

The advice still stands, you should wait a few months to bring the absences down.
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Re: Help EEA Italian Citizen, 177 days absent the past 12 mo

Post by salmintin » Tue Apr 25, 2017 4:03 pm

177DaysOver wrote: I say that because I saw this info on the application form guide/booklet here, page 8:https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... y_2017.pdf
(101 - 179 days) Total number of absences normally disregarded only if all
other requirements are met and:
  • • you have demonstrated links with the UK through
    presence of family, and established home and a
    substantial part of your estate.
I have all my state in the UK even though my state is not a home, I have money invested and savings. Also my mother which I have lived all my life with, and have supported financially. We live in the same property owned by her UK boyfriend.

I wanted to apply for the citizenship now, so I could try and make a name for myself as an international photographer in Europe with my business.
Even people that own a house here face an uphill battle in trying to convince the caseworker to disregard their excess absences. You don't even own a house here, and your situation is not at all uncommon. After all most of us have a bank account, savings / investments and maybe a relative here. I think your chances are virtually 0. Just because they can use discretion does not mean they actually will, especially when you have almost double the acceptable absences.

Of course, it's your decision to apply now or wait. Good luck.

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