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jobs listed on landing card while unemployed - deception?

A section for posts relating to applications for Naturalisation or Registration as a British Citizen. Naturalisation

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pseudonymmed
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Questions on timing of application and unemployed status

Post by pseudonymmed » Thu Oct 03, 2019 10:45 am

I have ILR and will be eligible to apply for naturalisation in a few weeks. I will be going traveling starting a few days after that date, returning 11 days later, so I am wondering whether to apply online before the trip or wait until I return because I am a bit confused about the timing of things under the new system.

If I apply online right away, I understand that right after I have finished the forms and paid, then I will have to make an appointment to go get biometrics taken and scan documents at a UKVCAS centre.

Questions:
-Will they choose the time and place or will I be able to choose a time and place myself?
-Will there likely be many options for dates available?
-Is there a minimum period of time after the online application within which I must have the appointment?

Also since it appears that I must put my referees' info into the form before I get them to sign, I am wondering...
-would it be a problem to prepare the forms with signature early so that I don't have to waste time after returning from my trip to chase them up on that and potentially delay the biometrics meeting?
-or is this not possible, do they give you a form that you can't get hold of ahead of time and/or the date of signing must be after the date of application?

(I'd ideally like to apply before my trip and book the appointment for as soon as possible after I return, so as not to delay the process. But if I must wait until after the trip to get them to sign that would add more time.)

One more area I would like advice on... I have been unemployed for a long time, sometimes studying and sometimes being supported by my partner. I have done a variety of volunteer work and mostly unpaid creative gigs here and there but never earned enough to need to pay taxes.
-Do I need to list any unpaid volunteer work or internships I have done?
-Will it be a problem if I list these jobs but have no record of ever filling in a tax form?
-On occasion over the years when I've entered the country and had to fill in the little card for non-EU people I have listed all of the following at least once: homemaker, unemployed, artist, designer. Will the fact that I didn't list unemployed each time be an issue? I didn't really think much of it at the time as I was doing art or design work but in the end it was for little or no money so didn't fill in a tax form or register as self-employed. Could this cause issues?

Thanks in advance for any advice!

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CR001
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Re: Questions on timing of application and unemployed status

Post by CR001 » Thu Oct 03, 2019 10:52 am

Please do NOT attempt to change the heading of a long running existing topic with your own, i.e. the one where you posted below. Your post has been split to its own topic now.
british-citizenship/advice-on-filling-f ... -1260.html
-Will they choose the time and place or will I be able to choose a time and place myself?
You choose. It is not allocated automatically and you have no choice.
-Will there likely be many options for dates available?
Possibly. It really depends on where in the UK you are located and what service you choose.
-Is there a minimum period of time after the online application within which I must have the appointment?
Yes, 45 days and in some cases 60 days.
Also since it appears that I must put my referees' info into the form before I get them to sign, I am wondering...
-would it be a problem to prepare the forms with signature early so that I don't have to waste time after returning from my trip to chase them up on that and potentially delay the biometrics meeting?
-or is this not possible, do they give you a form that you can't get hold of ahead of time and/or the date of signing must be after the date of application?
You complete the referee details as part of the online application and then download the form for them to sign. Note that the date of application is the date you apply and submit online and not the date of biometric appointment.
(I'd ideally like to apply before my trip and book the appointment for as soon as possible after I return, so as not to delay the process. But if I must wait until after the trip to get them to sign that would add more time.)
It really makes no difference.
One more area I would like advice on... I have been unemployed for a long time, sometimes studying and sometimes being supported by my partner. I have done a variety of volunteer work and mostly unpaid creative gigs here and there but never earned enough to need to pay taxes.
-Do I need to list any unpaid volunteer work or internships I have done?
-Will it be a problem if I list these jobs but have no record of ever filling in a tax form?
-On occasion over the years when I've entered the country and had to fill in the little card for non-EU people I have listed all of the following at least once: homemaker, unemployed, artist, designer. Will the fact that I didn't list unemployed each time be an issue? I didn't really think much of it at the time as I was doing art or design work but in the end it was for little or no money so didn't fill in a tax form or register as self-employed. Could this cause issues?
You need to list all work, likely only paid work as HO check your tax records. You are really overthinking the process. If you are unemployed, simply state it. Employment is not mandatory for citizenship at any time during the qualifying period.
Char (CR001 not Casa)
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Please DO NOT send me a PM for immigration advice. I reserve the right to ignore the PM and not respond.

pseudonymmed
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Re: Questions on timing of application and unemployed status

Post by pseudonymmed » Thu Oct 03, 2019 2:35 pm

Thanks for the advice!
(and apologies for posting twice, I couldn't find my post and there were no notifications I could find to tell me what happened so I assumed it didn't work).

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Employment status on Landing cards vs application

Post by pseudonymmed » Sun Nov 10, 2019 3:30 pm

For the section on employment status, during the time in question I have been supported by my partner while either studying or doing volunteer work and unpaid internships. Since I haven't earned enough money during this period to be obliged to file a tax return, I have never filed one in the UK.

Some things I am wondering about:

-Do I need to list any unpaid volunteer work or unpaid internships I have done?
-Will it be a problem if I list these jobs but have no record of ever filling in a tax form? Could that actually look suspicious and therefore it's better to leave it out?
-I have done a lot of short-term travels and on occasion over the years when I've entered the country and had to fill in the Landing Card for non-EU people I have listed all of the following at least once: homemaker, unemployed, artist, designer. Will the fact that I have listed designer or artist at times when I did not file a tax return possibly be an issue? I didn't really think much of it at the time as I was doing art or design work but in the end it was for little or no money so didn't fill in a tax form or register as self-employed. Could this cause issues?

Thanks in advance for any advice!

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Re: Employment status on Landing cards vs application

Post by aman90 » Sun Nov 10, 2019 4:01 pm

pseudonymmed wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 3:30 pm
No, no and no.

pseudonymmed
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Referee forms - online application vs printed

Post by pseudonymmed » Mon Nov 11, 2019 8:53 pm

I'm filling out the online application and wondering if it's possible to get the referees to sign the form beforehand? Is the form that is given at the end of the application the same as the one found here:
https://visas-immigration.service.gov.u ... on_MN1.pdf

..or is it different? Is there any way to get the form to print out before finishing the application?
At what point in the online process does it become too late to go back and edit things?

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Re: Referee forms - online application vs printed

Post by tier21419 » Mon Nov 11, 2019 8:59 pm

Yes, this is the form that needs to be signed. However, I would suggest that you fill a dummy application as well. You would need other details from your referees that you need to input in the online form e.g. their address for the last 3/5 years, passport number, etc. So better to ask the information that online application asks for and signing the referee form at the same time.

pseudonymmed
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jobs listed on landing card while unemployed - deception?

Post by pseudonymmed » Sat Nov 23, 2019 11:59 am

During times when I was neither employed nor self-employed (and so didn't file taxes) I have listed artist/designer as my job on occasion on landing cards when returning to the UK. Could this disparity be considered deception?

I honestly was not making money at the time but listed the above due to doing unpaid work or making art and designs for free, and it's just easier to list something and not get a bunch of questions which is what happens when I've said I was currently unemployed.

I'm just worried that if they see jobs listed that aren't listed in my employment record or represented in my tax record it will look bad. Should I mention something about it or is it better to just leave it and hope that since I don't owe any taxes or anything that it won't be noticed?

Any advice appreciated.

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Re: jobs listed on landing card while unemployed - deception?

Post by aman90 » Sat Nov 23, 2019 12:22 pm

It’s good that ur overthinking this.. but it’s just that.. overthinking! It’s not deception.
Don’t worry.
Keep all ur questions under one thread.

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Re: jobs listed on landing card while unemployed - deception?

Post by pseudonymmed » Sun Nov 24, 2019 3:42 pm

guess I just wanted a second opinion to be on the safe side

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Re: unpaid internships and employment history

Post by pseudonymmed » Mon Nov 25, 2019 5:36 pm

I am wondering if I don't list unpaid internships and volunteer work under employment, should I mention at the end that I did some unpaid/volunteer work and could give information if they feel they need it? So as to avoid potential "deception" if I don't mention it?

(sidenote: I am posting this amongst my other questions as requested although it doesn't connect to the subject line now so this seems a bit unhelpful to post it here IMO??)

ilovethebeatles
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Re: jobs listed on landing card while unemployed - deception?

Post by ilovethebeatles » Mon Nov 25, 2019 9:06 pm

Reading this thread, I think the OP wants to listen to advice regarding two scenarios:

1. To mention the unpaid/voluntary jobs: what would be the consequences? e.g. I would imagine the HO/HMRC look suspicious and investigate further if and why tax/NI was not paid especially when the OP was not employed?

2. Not to mention those jobs: again, the consequences? if e.g. HO/HMRC somehow find a record - would it be considered "deception"? and like above would they investigate further why tax/NI not paid?

Equally, the OP wanted to be on safer side.

The response by CR001 in post 2 seems to imply just need to mention paid jobs, but it does not clear the 2nd point above.

The response by aman in post 5 seems to say not mention and no consequence, but again the OP is worried about deception and consequence.

My feeling is it is better to mention (to avoid deception) but still the main concern is if HO/HMRC take further investigation about tax/NI. However, it is just my feeling - I have no experience with this.

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Re: unpaid internships and employment history

Post by aman90 » Mon Nov 25, 2019 9:58 pm

pseudonymmed wrote:
Mon Nov 25, 2019 5:36 pm
I am wondering if I don't list unpaid internships and volunteer work under employment, should I mention at the end that I did some unpaid/volunteer work and could give information if they feel they need it? So as to avoid potential "deception" if I don't mention it?

(sidenote: I am posting this amongst my other questions as requested although it doesn't connect to the subject line now so this seems a bit unhelpful to post it here IMO??)
It will have zero impact whether mentioned or not.. one thing is for sure.. it’s not deception. You really need to research and read up on what’s considered deception in the eyes of HO.
If it makes you feel better than go ahead n mention it.
Understand the purpose of the question.
What constitutes employment? Is volunteer work considered employment? Is unpaid work considered employment?
Were you legal? Were you allowed to work? HO is interested in knowing whether you breached any visa conditions. Did you pay the proper tax?
When you find the answers.. it may put the question into perspective.

For whatever your questions are worth, please keep all questions under one thread. It’s easier to answer.

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Re: jobs listed on landing card while unemployed - deception?

Post by ilovethebeatles » Tue Nov 26, 2019 9:38 am

Following what aman suggested above regarding deception, I think it's better not mention it as it may cause doubt unnecessarily.

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