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UK Born Child After Mother on ILR

A section for posts relating to applications for Naturalisation or Registration as a British Citizen. Naturalisation

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CULLINAN
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UK Born Child After Mother on ILR

Post by CULLINAN » Sat Feb 23, 2019 2:33 pm

Dear all,

a) As per my understanding if a child is born in UK AFTER the mother already has ILR, the child is British by birth. We can simply apply for a British Passport then??

b) As per my understanding, for the child British Passport, we will have to prove the settled status of the mother via ILR-BRP and send the ORIGINAL with the application??

c) The mother has applied for British Nationality just now and we are expecting a child in next 2 weeks(who will be British by birth). As far as I know the mother’s ILR-BRP has to be returned to Home Office after naturalisation is approved??

d) So ideally, we have to apply for the British Passport before the mother’s ILR-BRP is returned to Home Office??

Question 1: Given, our child has to prove British Nationality in the future after 10-15yrs or when applying for an adult passport (as per my understanding the British Passport alone is only an indication and not proof for British Nationality) how will we prove the settled status of the mother since her ILR-BRP will be returned to HO after naturalisation, as the child would have acquired British Nationality by birth through mother’s ILR status?

Question 2: Our first child has aquired British Nationality through MN1 as she was born before mother’s ILR and has British Passport now. Will she ever need to prove mother’s ILR status as she acquired British Nationaity through her?

Please shed some light on the case? Any suggestions will be appreciated.

Thank you very much
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Re: UK Born Child After Mother on ILR

Post by CR001 » Sat Feb 23, 2019 2:38 pm

Q1 - get brp certified and keep copy.

Q2 - if register the child has a certificate of registration as a British citizen, proof of citizenship.
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Re: UK Born Child After Mother on ILR

Post by vinny » Sat Feb 23, 2019 2:42 pm

1. Keep mother’s BRP-ILR?
2. Child’s Registration certificate confers child’s British citizenship.
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Re: UK Born Child After Mother on ILR

Post by CULLINAN » Sat Feb 23, 2019 2:44 pm

CR001 wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 2:38 pm
Q1 - get brp certified and keep copy.

Q2 - if register the child has a certificate of registration as a British citizen, proof of citizenship.

Thank you CR001 for your response.

So as per your reply, our first child has the certificate of registration so she will be fine, as she has the proof of nationality.

For second child you suggested to keep copy of ILR-BRP certifified.
Where can we get the copy certified which will be approved by HO later on if needed? Will HO accept certified copies as we wont have original ILR at that time?

Thank you
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Re: UK Born Child After Mother on ILR

Post by CULLINAN » Sat Feb 23, 2019 2:46 pm

vinny wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 2:42 pm
1. Keep mother’s BRP-ILR?
2. Child’s Registration certificate confers child’s British citizenship.

Thank you Vinny for your reply. We will have the original ILR-BRP at the child passport application stage. But dont we have to return the BRP after mother’s naturalisation is approved or we can just not return and keep it forever?
Thank you
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Re: UK Born Child After Mother on ILR

Post by CULLINAN » Sat Feb 23, 2019 2:58 pm

Thank you Vinny. I just went through the sticky link and if I am correct we can just retain mother’ ILR-BRP for settled proof for the UK born child?

Thanks
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Re: UK Born Child After Mother on ILR

Post by vinny » Sat Feb 23, 2019 3:00 pm

The mother’s BRP-ILR confers a subsequently U.K.-born child’s British citizenship.

Ask them for permission to keep it forever, to prevent future Windrush-like problems for child in the future, especially when a current British passport is lost or stolen.
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Re: UK Born Child After Mother on ILR

Post by CULLINAN » Sat Feb 23, 2019 3:06 pm

vinny wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 3:00 pm
The mother’s BRP-ILR confers a subsequently U.K.-born child’s British citizenship.

Ask them for permission to keep it forever, to prevent future Windrush-like problems for child in the future, especially when a current British passport is lost or stolen.
Thank you Vinny for your response. Much appreciated. I am glad we did not use the existing service for my wifes naturalisation application just now otherwise her BRP would already have gone! The new service lets us keep the BRP.

Thank you I will look into how to seek permission to keep the mother’s ILR-BRP.
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Re: UK Born Child After Mother on ILR

Post by CULLINAN » Sat Feb 23, 2019 3:43 pm

Please can you also suggest if this is of any use for the future sake for the new child?

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... us-form-ns

Could this be used also or its irrelevant in my case?

Thank you
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Re: UK Born Child After Mother on ILR

Post by CULLINAN » Sat Feb 23, 2019 4:41 pm

Thank you Vinny once again for providing me with the provision link.

We will use the retention provision provided in the Brtitish Nationality (General Ammendment) Regulations 2015 7E(1) and quote HMPO original documents requirement for British Passport and future problems for the child.

We will seek permission according to the above and I will update this thread how it goes in due course.

Thanks once again
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Re: UK Born Child After Mother on ILR

Post by vinny » Sun Feb 24, 2019 12:51 am

tier11417 wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 3:43 pm
Please can you also suggest if this is of any use for the future sake for the new child?

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... us-form-ns

Could this be used also or its irrelevant in my case?

Thank you
It's useless!
This is not intended to be legal or professional advice in any jurisdiction. Please click on any given links for further information. Refer to the source of any quotes.
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Re: UK Born Child After Mother on ILR

Post by CULLINAN » Sun Feb 24, 2019 1:04 am

vinny wrote:
Sun Feb 24, 2019 12:51 am
tier11417 wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 3:43 pm
Please can you also suggest if this is of any use for the future sake for the new child?

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... us-form-ns

Could this be used also or its irrelevant in my case?

Thank you
It's useless!
Thank you. Really appreciate your reply.
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Re: UK Born Child After Mother on ILR

Post by aman90 » Sun Feb 24, 2019 3:03 am

This is informative.

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Re: UK Born Child After Mother on ILR

Post by CULLINAN » Sun Mar 10, 2019 2:58 pm

Update: My child was born early this week and I was looking at the British Passport form.
I have the full UK birth certificate made already. I am applying online.

As per my understanding I need:
a) Child’s Full UK birth certificate
b) Mother’s original ILR
c) application form
d) baby photo

Questions:

1) The system was different when I applied for my older daughter’s passport like 15 months ago. I had to get 2 referees also. Now the online system asks for someone to confirm the child’s identity via email and NO referees needed. Is that the new system?

2) Previously for my older daughter, I dont remember sending any additional documents for grandparents other than their name/date of birth/marriage details in the application form. Why is the application asking me about grandparent’s marriage certificate and birth certificates? Is this even required?

Looking forward for your kind reply.

Thank you
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Re: UK Born Child After Mother on ILR

Post by CULLINAN » Sun Mar 10, 2019 6:23 pm

The form asks about the nationality mother has at the time or child’s birth. Mother has ILR (via refugee route) i.e settled status in UK but Pakistani nationality.

I am assuming I will put Pakistani as nationality at child’s birth OR should I just put “settled in UK”?? The form does not give any option to mention settled status??

Then it asks if mother has a UK passport. Mother has the blue convention UK travel document.

Do I say yes or no to UK passport?

If I say “yes” then the form does not ask any grandparents details. Otherwise it does.

The form is not giving any option to choose that mother has ILR i.e settled status.

Question: Should I say “yes” to UK passport and give UK travel document number there??


Please guide. Thank you
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Re: UK Born Child After Mother on ILR

Post by CULLINAN » Sun Mar 10, 2019 6:33 pm

I assume I will answer as follows:

Mother’s Nationality at Child’s Birth:
Refugee Settlement - Article 1 of the 1951 Convention

UK passport
I will just give UK travel document number?

Is this the right way to do??

If I put Pakistani Nationality for both mother and father at child’s birth then it asks about grand parents details and asks for their marriage certificates and birth certificates.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

Thank you
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Re: UK Born Child After Mother on ILR

Post by CULLINAN » Mon Mar 11, 2019 11:25 am

Please can someone confirm:

1) What should I mention mother’s Nationality at the time of Child’s Birth?

I assume it will be “Refugee Article 1 1951 Convention”. She has ILR via Refugee Settlement.


2) Can I say “yes” to UK passport given she has UK travel document?

Thank you
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Re: UK Born Child After Mother on ILR

Post by CR001 » Mon Mar 11, 2019 11:32 am

1. You simply need to state ILR. There is no difference in ILR depending on the route gained, so no need to explain.

2. She doesn't have a UK Passport. She has a travel document, not the same thing.
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Re: UK Born Child After Mother on ILR

Post by CULLINAN » Mon Mar 11, 2019 11:36 am

CR001 wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 11:32 am
1. You simply need to state ILR. There is no difference in ILR depending on the route gained, so no need to explain.

2. She doesn't have a UK Passport. She has a travel document, not the same thing.
Thank you for your reply CR001.

There is no space to mention ILR. The form only asks about the nationality. So if I put “Pakistani” and NO to UK passport the form assumes that the child did NOT get British Nationality via mother and goes on asking grandparents info and later in the checklist asks about grandparents marriage certificates and birth certificates. Both maternal and paternal grandparents are Pakistani also.

So what do I do in this case?

That is why I am assuming if I put “Refugee Settlement” in the Nationality and tick yes to UK passport and give UK travel document Number there and explain in the cover letter will it do?

I am not sure what is the right way to do it.

Please guide.

Thank you
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Re: UK Born Child After Mother on ILR

Post by CULLINAN » Tue Mar 12, 2019 12:32 pm

Just to update the thread: I called the passport advice line and they confirmed that if the mother has ILR and the baby was born in UK the baby is British by birth and all we need is to send the mother’s ILR.

We do NOT need to send in any grandparents details or marriage/birth certificates. He said to mention mother has ILR and proof is sent along with application in the “further info” box and it should be fine.

Will update the thread once its done.

Thanks
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Re: UK Born Child After Mother on ILR

Post by CULLINAN » Wed Apr 10, 2019 11:21 am

Update: My baby has received British Passport. All I sent was mother’s original ILR, original UK Birth Certificate with a cover letter. It only took 11 days. Thank you for all the help CR001 and Vinny.

We will retain the mother’s ILR now for future baby’s claim to British Nationality.
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Re: UK Born Child After Mother on ILR

Post by mickster » Wed Apr 10, 2019 11:43 am

tier11417 wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 11:21 am
Update: My baby has received British Passport. All I sent was mother’s original ILR, original UK Birth Certificate with a cover letter. It only took 11 days. Thank you for all the help CR001 and Vinny.

We will retain the mother’s ILR now for future baby’s claim to British Nationality.
Im confused, why will you need mothers ILR BRP in 10-15 years time when the mother will have a British passport or naturalisation certificate by then?

https://www.gov.uk/apply-first-adult-pa ... d-to-apply

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Re: UK Born Child After Mother on ILR

Post by CULLINAN » Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:10 pm

mickster wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 11:43 am
tier11417 wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 11:21 am
Update: My baby has received British Passport. All I sent was mother’s original ILR, original UK Birth Certificate with a cover letter. It only took 11 days. Thank you for all the help CR001 and Vinny.

We will retain the mother’s ILR now for future baby’s claim to British Nationality.
Im confused, why will you need mothers ILR BRP in 10-15 years time when the mother will have a British passport or naturalisation certificate by then?

https://www.gov.uk/apply-first-adult-pa ... d-to-apply
Because the baby is born when mother had ILR and the claim to baby’s British Nationality is Mother’s ILR not Naturalisation Certificate or British Passport.
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Re: UK Born Child After Mother on ILR

Post by mickster » Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:24 pm

tier11417 wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:10 pm
mickster wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 11:43 am
tier11417 wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 11:21 am
Update: My baby has received British Passport. All I sent was mother’s original ILR, original UK Birth Certificate with a cover letter. It only took 11 days. Thank you for all the help CR001 and Vinny.

We will retain the mother’s ILR now for future baby’s claim to British Nationality.
Im confused, why will you need mothers ILR BRP in 10-15 years time when the mother will have a British passport or naturalisation certificate by then?

https://www.gov.uk/apply-first-adult-pa ... d-to-apply
Because the baby is born when mother had ILR and the claim to baby’s British Nationality is Mother’s ILR not Naturalisation Certificate or British Passport.

apologies but still struggling to understand ... and am asking because i am in the exact same situation ... will my baby have to prove in 10-15 years time why they got a UK passport at the time of birth (2019) and how they qualified for it and why they are still british? surely the HO would have these details if they look at previous applications and wouldnt that be a simple case of renewing the passports rather than starting a full new case of citizenship? surely keeping a BRP (which the HO ask for after naturalisation) is not the right way ... or is it and with it we are risking fines?

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Re: UK Born Child After Mother on ILR

Post by CULLINAN » Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:48 pm

mickster wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:24 pm
tier11417 wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:10 pm
mickster wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 11:43 am
tier11417 wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 11:21 am
Update: My baby has received British Passport. All I sent was mother’s original ILR, original UK Birth Certificate with a cover letter. It only took 11 days. Thank you for all the help CR001 and Vinny.

We will retain the mother’s ILR now for future baby’s claim to British Nationality.
Im confused, why will you need mothers ILR BRP in 10-15 years time when the mother will have a British passport or naturalisation certificate by then?

https://www.gov.uk/apply-first-adult-pa ... d-to-apply
Because the baby is born when mother had ILR and the claim to baby’s British Nationality is Mother’s ILR not Naturalisation Certificate or British Passport.

apologies but still struggling to understand ... and am asking because i am in the exact same situation ... will my baby have to prove in 10-15 years time why they got a UK passport at the time of birth (2019) and how they qualified for it and why they are still british? surely the HO would have these details if they look at previous applications and wouldnt that be a simple case of renewing the passports rather than starting a full new case of citizenship? surely keeping a BRP (which the HO ask for after naturalisation) is not the right way ... or is it and with it we are risking fines?
The baby might struggle in the future to prove his/her claim to British Nationality as his/her claim is the mother’s ILR. You are right that by law you have to return the mother’s BRP after naturalisation. However, I will be writing to HO for the permission to let us retain the mother’s BRP for child’s future sake. I will update this thread when I do so in a couple of months. I would still not return the mother’s ILR even if I risk a fine. I am quite hopeful HO will give permission as per the situation. No one has ever reported such a fine anyways.

Please read vinny’s comment above and sticky note for more clarification.
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