NEW AN(Citizenship) FORM MAY'2015

cs95tdg · Post by **cs95tdg** » Thu Jun 11, 2015 9:44 pm

ASHA607 wrote: yes i meant tax refund. After got the p60 I phoned to hmrc for tax refund and they refunded it. Nothing illegally done. it was on 2010 while i was on PSW. will there be any problem ?

If you were given a refund which was due to you (because you had overpaid income tax over that year or a error was made by HMRC), why would it be a problem? The implications would be for those who evaded paying taxes or claimed a refund through deception.

saeumair · Post by **saeumair** » Fri Jun 12, 2015 8:08 am

yea but my concern here is I was not allowed to work over and above 20 hours during my student time but I did

I did my degree too at that time and did over time whenever my employeer gave us opturnity to earn more

So my worry is I have worked more than 20 hours like some weeks 30 others 40 etc...

Thanks

silent_warrior · Post by **silent_warrior** » Fri Jun 12, 2015 9:07 am

Just called the HO (three times) this morning to check if we can still use the old (March 2015 version). Two of them gave the same reply about the validity of old form till 19th June 2015.
However, when I called the third time, at first the representative said straight No, that the old form will not be accepted. Then when I told him that your colleagues mentioned it was ok, he said there is only one difference between the old and the new form and that he recommends, even if you fill the old form, attach a copy of the change (of course the employment history page) with the old form.

So, there is no consistency in information with the HO staff and I have a feeling it might be the same between the caseworker and the front line call centre staff.
Caseworker might have clear guidelines, which the front line staff may or may not. Also, all the representatives I spoke to, did not confirm if it is a guidelines written in their knowledge base somewhere or it is just through experience they suggest the validity period.

All of them said, there is usually a two week transition period where old versions are accepted.

Having said that, the difference between the old form and the new form is the Employment History and HO has added that for a reason. And its likely that the caseworker might request further information for all applicants who filled the old form after 4th June 2015.

muzakhaa · Post by **muzakhaa** » Fri Jun 12, 2015 9:24 am

Hi All,
I have been posting on this forum about the worries as a student and working more hours. First of all I must salute to those who remember their past 10 years working hours and history. Being a normal humanbeing including the caseworker himself wouldnt remember the working hours or hourly rate or even the start date end date of the oldest employment history.

As this topic has been discussed several times. Please read the following.

Must-read for anyone applying for citizenship in 2015: Home Office published their responce to the Chief Inspector's criticism of naturalisation casework, which received so much media coverage before Christmas.

(4) That some applicants who have "poor immigration history" and particularly "history of non-compliance with immigration rules, illegal working etc" were given citizenship. This is a ridiculous complaint of course, as people who are given citizenship at that stage already have permanent residence and so all their prior immigration history problems will have been resolved at ILR stage.

****However HO now says that
(a) where people have history of illegal residence, overstaying, illegal working that will, if within qualifying period, mean that they will not meet the residence requirements, Previously, it would have been possible to meet party of qualifying period with irregular residence, plus of course there are people who violate rules inadvertedly, for instance who filed an application for extension and it was rejected as invalid, or whose asylum claims were denied unjustly and who were later granted DL. These people will all have to wait longer. Those where immigration non-compliance was historic, it will have impact on their character suitability profile.
(b) new risk profile system will be develop to target some naturalisation applicants for character suitability interviews. historic non-compliance with immigration rules will cause applicant to be so targeted ******

(5) that, in cases where deception was later "detected" that had been successfull on original application and citizenship was granted , decisions have been often made afterwards to not pursue cancellation or deprivation of citizenship, allegedly out of embarassment --as Vine thinks -- that HO had been originally deceived. The real reason of course may lay in that HO has most often no proof of any kind of such deception in most cases, and certainly not enough to sustain a major action such as de-naturalisation.

***HO now says they will return to these cases and pursue deprivation. This is quite major, as many people involved in "these cases" may potentially have no idea, especially if allegations were made anonymously against them or inferred from public domain etc etc. ****[/b]

saeumair · Post by **saeumair** » Fri Jun 12, 2015 9:50 am

so what does this mean for people who have worked more in student life whilst doing there degree

I am very confused??

chocolateorange88 · Post by **chocolateorange88** » Fri Jun 12, 2015 9:53 am

it means that it could affect your 'good character' and ultimately you may be refused. hopefully not but is a possibility

muzakhaa · Post by **muzakhaa** » Fri Jun 12, 2015 10:16 am

Hi All,
Once again you didnt get the point unfortunately. Student are allowed to work full stop they are not talking in terms of full time or Partime thats too much in detail and most importantly not hold by HMRC. But what the immigration chief has said that this was all checked in ILR stage however the BC qualifiying period will be check which is 5 years back from the time you making an British Citizenship application ( except for Spouse category etc.).

I hope this will clear your confusion.

silent_warrior · Post by **silent_warrior** » Fri Jun 12, 2015 10:40 am

I think its worth everyone reading the AN Booklet_ June 2015 which points to the following weblink on Page 19
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... rsion.pdf.
On document Chapter_18, read section 8 and 9. Hopefully applicants will be able to make their decision based on that.

The documents frequently mentions any breach of immigration controls/restrictions in the last 10 years, even if you were granted ILR or leave

Nitro · Post by **Nitro** » Fri Jun 12, 2015 12:13 pm

I had my NCS appointment on 10th. To be honest, I wasn't aware of the new form until the NCS lady told me. I had all my references etc filled in during the last week of May and the formed signed in May too.

Anyway she accepted the form and said HO office is still taking old forms until 21st June. However the she said Home office will contact you if they need REFERENCES from previous employers. So I am assuming all this thing about 10 yr employment history is purely to check your references under good character. Which could mean anything such as dismissals or not good conduct, not sound character, behaviour etc etc. Bear in mind if you behave inappropriately at work place or say if you steal or something and later was caught not all employers will report to police, they will simply dismiss and keep in their records. So I think this 10 yrs history thing is purely for such sort of stuff, well that's the way I understood when the NCS lady explained me.

Regards
Nitro

ukswus · Post by **ukswus** » Fri Jun 12, 2015 1:08 pm

I very much doubt they will seek references from previos employers. First of all, this goes considerably beyond the scope of good charachter assessment for the purposes of nationality, as past employers can say whatever unverifiable things they want. For example, you may have left because of higher pay/ better working conditions, and they can claim you were lazy/stole things etc. Unless this was reported to the police and then proven in court, this should be treated as hearsay and have no bearing on the application. Secondly, they don't even ask for employer contact information, just for their address.

cool mind · Post by **cool mind** » Fri Jun 12, 2015 1:23 pm

ukswus wrote:I very much doubt they will seek references from previos employers. First of all, this goes considerably beyond the scope of good charachter assessment for the purposes of nationality, as past employers can say whatever unverifiable things they want. For example, you may have left because of higher pay/ better working conditions, and they can claim you were lazy/stole things etc. Unless this was reported to the police and then proven in court, this should be treated as hearsay and have no bearing on the application. Secondly, they don't even ask for employer contact information, just for their address.

No that's not correct because employer need to give true and accurate reference otherwise they can be challenged and punished. See

https://www.gov.uk/work-reference

ukswus · Post by **ukswus** » Fri Jun 12, 2015 1:50 pm

cool mind wrote:
ukswus wrote:I very much doubt they will seek references from previos employers. First of all, this goes considerably beyond the scope of good charachter assessment for the purposes of nationality, as past employers can say whatever unverifiable things they want. For example, you may have left because of higher pay/ better working conditions, and they can claim you were lazy/stole things etc. Unless this was reported to the police and then proven in court, this should be treated as hearsay and have no bearing on the application. Secondly, they don't even ask for employer contact information, just for their address.
No that's not correct because employer need to give true and accurate reference otherwise they can be challenged and punished. See

https://www.gov.uk/work-reference

In theory yes, but in practice I am aware of a number of cases where poor references were given, which were just a subjective opinion of vindictive employers. In any case, employment-related information should be irrelevant to the assessment of good charachter for nationality purposes. Otherwise, what's next? Contacting your neighboors, school teachers and ex-boyfriends/girlfriends?

Also, I repeat they are not asking for contact information, just employment address.

Universal soldier · Post by **Universal soldier** » Fri Jun 12, 2015 2:34 pm

Hmrc holds data date back to 1948 till now and only big multi national companies follow data protection act to delete its employees data after 3 years. But all other employers do keep employees data beyond 10 years. In my point of view the purpose of that section is to not only ask employees reference about character but it can be anything from start date to work times by directly contacting employers instead HMRC because if they contact Hmrc then nino is enough without knowing employment history. A lot of people will be fish out but it will entirely depends on case to case and for instance if in previously they already know that employer then they may not check.
Everyone is just barking here and anyone who did something wrong in past towards its immigration status is actually presenting his own ideas in his own favour as a sign of relief. But who actually know that its for what reason then answer is no one except ukba. Many post naturalizations holders and so called solicitor causing confusion here so better if they stop and wait to happens.

saeumair · Post by **saeumair** » Fri Jun 12, 2015 3:02 pm

Exactly I agree with Universal Soldier
These are all assumptions just now we haven't had any results out yet

No one surely knows, so we need results than anything else

Thanks

vishpb35 · Post by **vishpb35** » Sat Jun 13, 2015 9:09 pm

In case you have not noticed, UKBA have again updated the May 2015 on 4th June with corrections like (Page 24 from page 23) etc. Rest of the form is same as 29th May 2015 version.

saeumair · Post by **saeumair** » Mon Jun 15, 2015 9:59 am

and also they are now asking for 10 years of employment history

so if anyone has worked more then allowed working hours whilst on student or any other visa it might be a problem

but who knows ?

saanju9 · Post by **saanju9** » Tue Jun 16, 2015 4:57 pm

Hello Guys

I am about to apply for Naturalisation and have been reading this thread for few of my own queries...

Quick thoughts About the employers for past 10years
a. Firstly, Employment is not a requirement for Natuaralisation
b. If we think that they are going to enquire about my character : they are not taking my consent to do a reference check with ex-employers ... Please, could one of you double check the application. (I have good eyes but a second eye is always better).
c. I am ruling out that they will check the number of hours worked during student period because: No body will have records of hours worked by an employee 10years ago, or their hourly pay (may be yes but highly unlikely) and per se what if the company doesn't exist anymore. Well if they go to HMRC: they wouldn't have how many hours I worked nor my hourly pay details. HMRC will only have how much I earned

d. I think: this is to filter out the self-employed. Companies will deduct the tax and NI before they pay you anyways. so it is only the self-employed who might have issues with taxes.

Anyways my query is I was self-employed for a while (parallel to my normal employment) and stopped it now.
I started it in 2010 and probably closed it in 2013 as it wasn't making much money and I got a good job. However, although I notified HMRC, they made mistakes and kept sending me fines. I eventually phoned them up and explained and they cancelled my fines upon appeal. I still recieved a SA302 this year. However, I don't have SA302s from 2011. I have many threads in this forum suggesting that we need to send SA302s for all the relevant period. But, In Pg.32 of the application ( Form AN Application form (version 05/15)) it states that

" SECTION 7 Evidence of tax for self-employed applicants only
The most recent HM Revenue & Customs Self Assessment Statement of Account"

and same in Guide AN (page 19)

SELF-EMPLOYED APPLICANTS
If you do not pay tax through Pay As You Earn (PAYE) arrangements, we require
• The most recent HM Revenue & Customs Self Assessment Statement of
Account

Did anyone come across anything which suggests otherwise (saying need the SA302s from start of your self-employement)

Thanks
Saanju

Manka10 · Post by **Manka10** » Tue Jun 16, 2015 6:07 pm

saanju9 wrote: a. Firstly, Employment is not a requirement for Natuaralisation - HO has not made employment mandatory for naturalisation anyway
b. If we think that they are going to enquire about my character : they are not taking my consent to do a reference check with ex-employers ... HO already has all the permissions, consent blah blah blah (when you submit your completed application) to do a check on whatever they want with any agency/company they want PERIOD
c. I am ruling out that they will check the number of hours worked during student period because: No body will have records of hours worked by an employee 10years ago, or their hourly pay (may be yes but highly unlikely) and per se what if the company doesn't exist anymore. Well if they go to HMRC: they wouldn't have how many hours I worked nor my hourly pay details. HMRC will only have how much I earned - HO already knows what kind of jobs pay how much so even if the company is not in business, they can get a fairly accurate idea of how many hours anyone has worked just by looking at the amount earned

I don't mean to put anyone down, just looking at it from a different perspective. Anyone who says HO can't do this or that is far from reality

saanju9 · Post by **saanju9** » Tue Jun 16, 2015 6:23 pm

Hi Manka
Its just my opinion and trying to be positive.
I am not saying they can't. I am saying the probability they do is not so much

Anyways did you came across anything with regards to SA302 sending for all the years of self-employment.

Manka10 · Post by **Manka10** » Tue Jun 16, 2015 6:53 pm

saanju9 wrote:Anyways did you came across anything with regards to SA302 sending for all the years of self-employment.

No clue about SA302 mate...Goodluck

KKD · Post by **KKD** » Tue Jun 16, 2015 10:02 pm

Manka10 wrote:
saanju9 wrote: a. Firstly, Employment is not a requirement for Natuaralisation - HO has not made employment mandatory for naturalisation anyway
b. If we think that they are going to enquire about my character : they are not taking my consent to do a reference check with ex-employers ... HO already has all the permissions, consent blah blah blah (when you submit your completed application) to do a check on whatever they want with any agency/company they want PERIOD
c. I am ruling out that they will check the number of hours worked during student period because: No body will have records of hours worked by an employee 10years ago, or their hourly pay (may be yes but highly unlikely) and per se what if the company doesn't exist anymore. Well if they go to HMRC: they wouldn't have how many hours I worked nor my hourly pay details. HMRC will only have how much I earned - HO already knows what kind of jobs pay how much so even if the company is not in business, they can get a fairly accurate idea of how many hours anyone has worked just by looking at the amount earned

I don't mean to put anyone down, just looking at it from a different perspective. Anyone who says HO can't do this or that is far from reality

Seriously Manka, you must think very low of yourself and believe any government has power over you just because you have asked them to process an application. How can HO get a fairly accurate on how many hours a person has worked just by looking at the amount earned? okay how am i supposed to know how much hours you've worked if i decided to pay you £75 an hour? Do you think they run some kind of a futuristic computers there or software no human has seen before? its simple LOGIC, don't ask me to provide information you may already have access to.... then i am right to assume you don't have it. Stop making people panic here with this low thinking of yours.

** To add to.. they don't or can't entirely know what kind of jobs pay how much. JESUS CHRIST

cool mind · Post by **cool mind** » Wed Jun 17, 2015 12:11 am

I doubt that they may employ external agencies for good character check

March_LR14 · Post by **March_LR14** » Wed Jun 17, 2015 5:10 am

As i am providing 6 years HMRC verified history. For remaining 4 years i have found my employment contract for a job i did back in 2007.

Is it ok to attach your previous employment contract as additional document?

cs95tdg · Post by **cs95tdg** » Wed Jun 17, 2015 6:09 am

March_LR14 wrote:As i am providing 6 years HMRC verified history. For remaining 4 years i have found my employment contract for a job i did back in 2007.

Is it ok to attach your previous employment contract as additional document?

Just for clarity, you are not required to submit evidence of your previous employment as part of the application. All you need to do is list your employment history under that section of the form. Getting your HMRC employment records and referring to your past employment contracts will help you fill in that section, but they do not need to be submitted with the application.

saanju9 · Post by **saanju9** » Wed Jun 17, 2015 9:45 am

I don't think you need to provide any proof of your employment or tax paid through employment (NI Number/Employer PAYE / Name and Address will do the job)... You need to provide most recent SA302 if you're Self Employed...I am little uncertain about sending the SA302s for whole of the self-employed period.
Reasons:1. They didn't ask for (as I have mentioned in my previous post)
2. If there any arears in tax that would be reflected in the latest SA302 saying carried forward from previous tax year

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