Unexpected Document Request MN 3(1)

Hello,

As my children were born abroad to a parent who now has UKC by descent and we have now lived in the UK for three years, I am hoping to register the children as citizens using form MN1 section 3(5). I have looked through this form for this topic, but still have a couple questions before I get started:

• The guidance states that the parent with citizenship by descent must have at it at the time of the children's birth...DH didn't apply for it until after the kids were born. I believe he was eligible for it when the kids were born, we just didn't know it existed. Can the kids still use this path to citizenship?
• If I use the Nationality Checking Service, I can apply for passports at the same time, right?
• Is the wait about the same for 3(5) as the other methods of registering children?
• What evidence do we include to show "that the child and both parents have lived in the UK for 3 years immediately before the date of application." I don't see an example. Do we need to send school enrolment/mail/passports/letter from our landlord?

Thank you for any help on this!

How did the parent acquire BC by descent? Was it via the Romein route?

If the parent was not a BC by descent, the Section 3(5) route will likely not work. It will have to be a Section 3(1) application and you will need to make a case for discretion to be applied and for it to be treated as if it is a Section 3(5) route.

secret.simon wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 23, 2018 12:53 pm

How did the parent acquire BC by descent? Was it via the Romein route?

He was born in the 70s to a British mother and US father in the US. He gained BC by descent in 2015. I can't remember which form he used off the top of my head, but can look it up if it helps.

Does this clarify his route to citizenship?

As you can imagine, I really hope we can register the kids as citizens!

secret.simon wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 23, 2018 12:53 pm

...you will need to make a case for discretion to be applied and for it to be treated as if it is a Section 3(5) route.

If this is the case, can you give any guidance on how to go about this?

What is the immigration status and nationalities of the non-British citizen parent in the UK? How old are the children and where were they born? What nationalities do they hold? How long have they been resident in the UK?

secret.simon wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 23, 2018 4:56 pm

What is the immigration status and nationalities of the non-British citizen parent in the UK? How old are the children and where were they born? What nationalities do they hold? How long have they been resident in the UK?

USA citizenship for spouse and kids, here on a settlement visa.

immigration-for-family-members/which-fo ... l#p1206698

I really appreciate your help on this!

secret.simon wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 23, 2018 4:56 pm

What is the immigration status and nationalities of the non-British citizen parent in the UK?

US citizen on FLR(M)

secret.simon wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 23, 2018 4:56 pm

How old are the children and where were they born?

6 and 9, they were both born in the US

secret.simon wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 23, 2018 4:56 pm

What nationalities do they hold? How long have they been resident in the UK?

They only have USC and have been in the UK 3 years as dependents on my LTR and FLR(M)




I did some google sleuthing, and when you mention 'discretion' are you referring to using 3(1)?

I found the section below. I believe section 4C refers to DH's path to citizenship as he was born overseas to a mother with citizenship otherwise than by descent. And our children were born before he registered as a citizen (assuming I'm reading it correctly). I do not see this mentioned in the MN1 guidance, however.

Children born to a parent registered under section 4C, 4G, 4H, 4I of the British Nationality Act 1981
Section 4C of the British Nationality Act 1981 allows those born abroad before 1 January 1983 to British mothers to be registered as a British citizen. Sections 4G, 4H and 4I are registration provisions for those born before 1 July 2006 who would have become British automatically if their parents had been married. Any child born outside of the UK after the parent who is a British citizen otherwise than by descent will be a British citizen under section 2(1) .
You must normally register a child if:
• the child was born before the parent registered under one of the above sections

Here is a fuller version of the document.

Page 18 of the Registration as British citizen: children caseworker guidance wrote:Children born to a parent registered under section 4C, 4G, 4H, 4I of the British Nationality Act 1981
Section 4C of the British Nationality Act 1981 allows those born abroad before 1 January 1983 to British mothers to be registered as a British citizen. Sections 4G, 4H and 4I are registration provisions for those born before 1 July 2006 who would have become British automatically if their parents had been married. Any child born outside of the UK after the parent who is a British citizen otherwise than by descent will be a British citizen under section 2(1) .

You must normally register a child if:

• the child was born before the parent registered under one of the above sections
• the child would be a British citizen or have an entitlement to be registered under section 3(2) or 3(5)
• where necessary both parents consent to the registration or any objections by the non applying parent are ill founded
• there is no reason to refuse on character grounds

Documentary evidence to be supplied

Applications under sections 4C, 4G, 4H, and 4I must be supported by the following evidence:
• the child’s birth certificate showing parents’ details
• the relevant parent’s birth certificate showing their parent’s details
• the parents’ marriage certificate if appropriate
• the grandparents’ birth and marriage certificates if appropriate
• evidence of the parent’s registration

The children will still have to be registered under Section 3(1) as they will not meet the requirements of either Section 3(2) or 3(5). However, as per the guidance, your children will likely be registered under that Section. Best of luck and thank you for highlighting this portion of the guidance.

Thank you for following up! Do you happen to know if it 3(1) is for citizenship by descent, or otherwise than by descent?

I would hate for the kids to miss out on 'otherwise than by descent' as I believe they could get that if we wait for my ILR/citizenship in a couple years.

Section 3(1) registration should lead to British citizenship otherwise than by descent.

secret.simon wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 25, 2018 10:38 am

Section 3(1) registration should lead to British citizenship otherwise than by descent.

Amazing. Thank you for your guidance! I will follow up as we move through the process!

Hi again,

In the guidance, it states to provide the following evidence:

Applications under sections 4C, 4G, 4H, and 4I must be supported by the following evidence:
• the child’s birth certificate showing parents’ details
• the relevant parent’s birth certificate showing their parent’s details
• the parents’ marriage certificate if appropriate
• the grandparents’ birth and marriage certificates if appropriate
• evidence of the parent’s registration

However, as we are applying to be considered as they would have otherwise been able to register under 3(5) -- should we also include evidence from 3(5)? The key point being that we have lived here for 3 years.

Thank you!

Hello,

Background:
I submitted an application for my children's registration under 3(1) discretionary route as they have lived in the UK for 3 years, however aren't eligible under 3(5) as their father didn't receive citizenship by descent until after their birth. This is because when my husband was born to a UK citizenship otherwise than by descent mom and US citizens dad in the US. At that time, UK citizenship was only passed through the father.

(The guidance to support this route is quoted in some of my earlier posts. I also explained the route I was hoping to use in the additional information section of the application.)

Situation:
I just recieced a request for more documentation. They asked for proof that my husband's US citizen father (the applicants' non UK grandparent) lived in the UK for 3 years before the children's birth.

Plea for help:
Can anyone please clarify why they might want that information? Even if it was a typo and they want the children's father, we stated we were applying under the route that the children have lived here for 3 years.

If the children are registered under the route that their father lived in the UK for 3 years before the children were born, they will be given citizenship by descent, which I don't want as they can get citizenship otherwise than by descent in two years when I am eligible for citizenship through the 5 year marriage route.

Any guidance would be welcome. If I call UKVI, will they be able to advice on my case?

Thank you in advance!

To clarify, this is what I included in the free form that allowed for additional information:

This application for registration at the Home Secretary’s discretion is because xxxxx would have been entitled to register under 3(5) if his British father had been naturalised at the time of xxxxx’s birth.
Below are questions from MN1 3(5) that were not requested by MN1 3(1) to show xxxx meets the residency requirements of that neither he, nor his parents, have been absent from the UK for more than 270 days in the past 3 years.

I then included all the dates of travel during the 3 years we have been in the UK, as requested when applying under 3(5)

Sorry to be spam-y. I'm stressed and still looking through my own information.

What I posted above was not part of the main form. I included it as a support document.

From the 'Give other information to be considered' field I wrote:

"Thank you for taking the time to
consider this application. Xxxxx is applying under
the discretionary route as he was born abroad to a
father who had not yet registered for citizenship by
descent under Section 4C of the British Nationality
Act 1981. Had his father been registered at the time
of xxxx's birth, xxxxxx would currently have an
entitlement to be registered under section 3(5)."

While I still can't find a reason UKVI would want to know about their grandfather's residency, I am now nervous I didn't upload the entry visas for the children (because they weren't ask for by the 3(1) application, so I may have overlooked them). So maybe UKVI is going on the assumption I can't prove we've been here for 3 years which is why they are looking at family residency prior to the children's birth.

Ugh, I just wish I could talk to the person processing the application. I'm sure it's something simple, but not knowing is so stressful!

I got the certificates of naturalisation today!

In case anyone can learn from my case:

In response to the request, I sent tax documents for their grandfather showing his residence as well as the children's father's transcripts from university, and the children's expired passports. I included a long cover letter explaining I was sending information additional information out of caution. Also that I understood the documents may not be enough to demonstrate residency before the children's birth, which is why I was requesting to be considered under the Home Secretary's discretion that they would be eligible under 3(5) had their father been registered at the time of their birth.

So I'm thrilled they are registered, but surprised to see they are registered under 3(2) and a bit concerned this means they have citizenship by descent. I'll call the UKVI number tomorrow to see if I can get any clarification.

It's a happy story either way, and we're celebrating with a curry take away tonight!