Consultation on changes to employment-related settlement

push · Post by **push** » Sun Jun 12, 2011 3:29 pm

On the contrary, the question is included in the current consultation itself:

QUESTION 3
Should temporary leave for Tier 1 migrants be capped at a maximum of five years (those who wish to stay longer will be obliged to apply for settlement)?

I see the above in italics positive if anything.

ddb wrote:
srirags wrote:We cannot conclude anything untill they pass the rule. The document is just a consultation.

Aslo they genralised and they are not specific with tier 1 migrant.
If you go through the published consultation you will note that they were specific about the Tier 1 routes the proposals apply to i.e. Tier 1 (Entrepreneur, Exceptional, and Investor). No reference was made to Tier 1 (General) - which by the way is closed.

srirags wrote:They used the below words which creates further confusion.

whether we should remove the ability of all Tier 1 migrants to apply
for further leave to remain after five years in the UK.
This statement [from the Written Ministerial Statement - immigration (work and settlement)] is referring to future consultations not the recently published consultation.

Like you commented...
srirags wrote:Lets be positive and hope for the best untill they pass the rule.
.....that's all one can do now.

push · Post by **push** » Sun Jun 12, 2011 3:34 pm

See my comments above.

srirags wrote:Reference:

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... mmigration

The below statement is very confusing:

"We have already announced reforms to the Tier 1 investor and entrepreneur categories,
including the possibility of accelerated settlement for these high value migrants. We will be
consulting, however, on whether Tier 1 exceptional talent migrants should have an automatic
route to settlement and whether we should remove the ability of all Tier 1 migrants to apply
for further leave to remain after five years in the UK."

So still they are considering whether to give the settlement right for tier 1 (irrespective of one who entered before or after april 2011).

They haven't mentioned anything abot the tier 1 who entered before 2011. So I feel they consider all the tier 1 migrant as the same?

They have again created confusion for existing tier 1 holders?

smarguy_rj · Post by **smarguy_rj** » Sun Jun 12, 2011 3:36 pm

GSOtodd wrote:Yes, but extensions is an entirely different matter. I think what the consultation is saying is that anyone who comes in after APril under the new rules (coming into the UK) cannot expect to settle. Extensions aren't really new visas, just continuing. Now if you change jobs, that might be a different story because really you are getting a new visa with a new employer.

Hi Andy - Thanks. But there are two aspects as you mentioned

1. Settlement
2. Extension

In consultation there is a proposal to cap the extension upto a maximum of 5 years, i understand that it is for people who have entered in UK after april 2011.

So if we can't extend then we won't be able to settle, my question was that since I have entered UK in feb 2010 under tier -1 general, will I be able to extend more than once, as my visa was from 2009 march, which will make me eligible for settlement.

GSOtodd · Post by **GSOtodd** » Sun Jun 12, 2011 3:40 pm

the way I see it (and I'm hoping I'm right but can't seem to get any clarity) is that anyone who enters the UK under the new Limit (the Cap that was put in place in April) will be affected. If they affect people who have been here for years and have bought cars and houses, there is a case for a law suit so hopefully we'll have nothing to worry about.

Tier1_ILR_Applicant · Post by **Tier1_ILR_Applicant** » Sun Jun 12, 2011 3:46 pm

GSOtodd wrote:the way I see it (and I'm hoping I'm right but can't seem to get any clarity) is that anyone who enters the UK under the new Limit (the Cap that was put in place in April) will be affected. If they affect people who have been here for years and have bought cars and houses, there is a case for a law suit so hopefully we'll have nothing to worry about.

Very well put!

smarguy_rj · Post by **smarguy_rj** » Sun Jun 12, 2011 3:57 pm

Tier1_ILR_Applicant wrote:
GSOtodd wrote:the way I see it (and I'm hoping I'm right but can't seem to get any clarity) is that anyone who enters the UK under the new Limit (the Cap that was put in place in April) will be affected. If they affect people who have been here for years and have bought cars and houses, there is a case for a law suit so hopefully we'll have nothing to worry about.
Very well put!

Even I hope so....Thanks everyone...

Sheffield_Marketeer · Post by **Sheffield_Marketeer** » Sun Jun 12, 2011 5:16 pm

Very well put Kenfrapin

The huge load of migration that UK goes through isnt clearly sustainable for the country. I am one of those affected by these changes, but I must admit, logically it makes sense for the Government and the British to enforce these changes.

But as you pointed out, I'd have been very glad if the change hadnt been retrospective and stated the cut off date sometime in the future, say April 2012, atleast that would have given us a chance.

kenfrapin wrote:I know this seems radical but anyone who thinks this wasnt going to happen soon is really just fooling themselves. We are all now some of the last few who will get the chance to settle in the UK and the transition has begun.

Almost all countries have made it impossible, if not stopped completely, the influx of immigrants into their country. UK too has a right to do so and with the economic recession and tough times, UK have finally decided to act on it. Further, take a look around, and though the English are always 'politically' correct, the number of issues going on around change of culture, loss of the 'English' life, cities filled only with migrants, salaries cut in half etc, they have realised its time to shut their doors before it gets out of hand.

There are many who say its insulting, what's the point of coming here or who will ever want to come here - well, that's true for every other Western country right? People will still come here to enjoy the lifestyle, earn a salary far better than developing countries and then return home. Dont people still go to USA even though its almost impossible to settle there? Finally, the reason people have been inclined towards the UK in comparison to other countries is because it used to be easy but they too have now decided to opt for stricter rules like most countries elsewhere across the globe.

I do hope that if they bring in any changes they do so from a date in the future so all those who have already come here and made that choice because of the options to settle permanently should not lose out. It's not fair to them and if they change it for those applying under rules in place AFTER April 2011 onwards it does not seem that harsh as we all knew after the elections that immigration law changes was an important agenda.

KP

dreamer86 · Post by **dreamer86** » Sun Jun 12, 2011 5:24 pm

Hello everyone.. I applied tier 1 general on april 4 th 2011 but got visa on june 2nd 2011.

Will new proposed rules affect me? Will i be able to do extension and hence apply for ILR?
I read most of post in this topic but couldnt find ans i am looking .
Ny reply will be much appreciated. Thks

Tier1_ILR_Applicant · Post by **Tier1_ILR_Applicant** » Sun Jun 12, 2011 5:54 pm

dreamer86 wrote:Hello everyone.. I applied tier 1 general on april 4 th 2011 but got visa on june 2nd 2011.

Will new proposed rules affect me? Will i be able to do extension and hence apply for ILR?
I read most of post in this topic but couldnt find ans i am looking .
Ny reply will be much appreciated. Thks

I'm not a lawyer but as the consultation does not mention Tier 1 General presumably because one it's now closed and second they have already announced/implemented the changes for tier 1 general ILR requirements it should not affect you in my view. So far the only thing which will affect you is (changes announced on 6th April) that amongst other things you have to earn points for your earnings not only when you extend but also when you apply for ILR after five years and other requirements such as new criminality threshold etc

dreamer86 · Post by **dreamer86** » Sun Jun 12, 2011 6:27 pm

Tier1_ILR_Applicant wrote:
dreamer86 wrote:Hello everyone.. I applied tier 1 general on april 4 th 2011 but got visa on june 2nd 2011.

Will new proposed rules affect me? Will i be able to do extension and hence apply for ILR?
I read most of post in this topic but couldnt find ans i am looking .
Ny reply will be much appreciated. Thks
I'm not a lawyer but as the consultation does not mention Tier 1 General presumably because one it's now closed and second they have already announced/implemented the changes for tier 1 general ILR requirements it should not affect you in my view. So far the only thing which will affect you is (changes announced on 6th April) that amongst other things you have to earn points for your earnings not only when you extend but also when you apply for ILR after five years and other requirements such as new criminality
threshold etc

Thks tier 1... Atleast u ease my pain. Can ny other member hav ur other view and write wht u understood plz. Thks

Aryan2013 · Post by **Aryan2013** » Sun Jun 12, 2011 7:36 pm

dreamer86 wrote:
Tier1_ILR_Applicant wrote:
dreamer86 wrote:Hello everyone.. I applied tier 1 general on april 4 th 2011 but got visa on june 2nd 2011.

Will new proposed rules affect me? Will i be able to do extension and hence apply for ILR?
I read most of post in this topic but couldnt find ans i am looking .
Ny reply will be much appreciated. Thks
I'm not a lawyer but as the consultation does not mention Tier 1 General presumably because one it's now closed and second they have already announced/implemented the changes for tier 1 general ILR requirements it should not affect you in my view. So far the only thing which will affect you is (changes announced on 6th April) that amongst other things you have to earn points for your earnings not only when you extend but also when you apply for ILR after five years and other requirements such as new criminality
threshold etc
Thks tier 1... Atleast u ease my pain. Can ny other member hav ur other view and write wht u understood plz. Thks

I would like to quote Celtic:
http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=80023

I am actually bewildered that so called tier 1 general migrants can't seem to understand and grasp basic english.

The consulation clreary stated that above changes don't apply to tier 1 general migrants. It only affact those who entered pbs after April 2011 like tier 1 exception talent migrants, tier 2 and tier 5 migrants.

dreamer86 · Post by **dreamer86** » Sun Jun 12, 2011 8:34 pm

Hello aryan ... HO havent mentioned exact date. So got confuse. Nyway thks.

Tier1_ILR_Applicant · Post by **Tier1_ILR_Applicant** » Sun Jun 12, 2011 10:21 pm

Could'nt agree with you more Aryan2013.

zahid.ali.anwar · Post by **zahid.ali.anwar** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 4:24 am

ddb wrote:
GSOtodd wrote:Who would want to hire a good qualified worker if one can't be found, then tell him/her to leave and put your company's output at risk by having one of your good workers leave?
Very valid point.

GSOtodd wrote:Also, my professor back at my university in the US told me that they had another survey of college student and if they should have to seek work outside the US, where would it be. Many said they would prefer to stay in the US and work jobs until an opening occured. Understandable. A few said Canada and Australia. ONe said NZ. NO one said the UK. Wonder why?
, given the erratic way the rules keep changing, who can blame them :p.

Their policies are just like thier constitution...unwritten and changeable at any time....Well I am sure that with these policies of promoting uncertanities torries are not doing any good to UK economy at rather they are tarnishing it slowly and steadliy.

drhopeful · Post by **drhopeful** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 8:15 am

I am confused after reading all through the replies and documents.
I have these specific queries regarding myself and my friend.

1.If someone changes from tier 1 general to tier 2 general, in country,
does that mean new visa tier 2, will be considered as temporary visa? (for those of you wondering, tier 1 restricts working in training jobs for doctors)

2.For those who are already on tier 2, if they change employer now,and obtain new tier 2 visa, what is the status?

In summary, does the new rule apply to those who are entering the country now or those who will enter into the new tier 2 visa categoreies?
Thanks in advance

Celtic · Post by **Celtic** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 9:23 am

drhopeful wrote:I am confused after reading all through the replies and documents.
I have these specific queries regarding myself and my friend.

1.If someone changes from tier 1 general to tier 2 general, in country,
does that mean new visa tier 2, will be considered as temporary visa? (for those of you wondering, tier 1 restricts working in training jobs for doctors)

2.For those who are already on tier 2, if they change employer now,and obtain new tier 2 visa, what is the status?

In summary, does the new rule apply to those who are entering the country now or those who will enter into the new tier 2 visa categoreies?
Thanks in advance

1) Yes

2) HO will apply new rules after consulation retrospectively to those who applied after April 2011.

avijendr · Post by **avijendr** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 11:02 am

Does this apply for Tier-1 extension as well?

navodwickra · Post by **navodwickra** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 11:56 am

avijendr wrote:Does this apply for Tier-1 extension as well?

Extension is an extension not a new visa or a swtich.

MPI · Post by **MPI** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 12:13 pm

It would be good if moderators answered few frequent questions here at the start page perhaps , so that people get their immediate answers before interrupting more insightful conversations. Many just chase the trail to find an simple answer here and thatâ€™s why we see the a question like â€˜ will Tier1Gs before April 11 survive â€˜ a million times here .

Eventhough I could see the answer to that particular question on page 1 , but simply because It didnâ€™t come from moderator I still chase the trail and keep asking same question .

On a different note , me too see this movement by gov very positive. It values genuine immigrants and helps new ones make sensible decisions before stepping to this country. Having said that , the actual effect of this shift will not happen till all previously entered eligible Tier1G , Tier2 , HSMP , workpermit etc holders are out of system , so basically thatâ€™s is to say at least in 4 years time . Ironically this gov will probably handed over to some other party by the time and I wouldnâ€™t be surprised if they had different plans in mind in terms of immigration .

As for the consultation , well .. frankly I donâ€™t understand it! To me sounds like decisions already made and people are put to some typical voting questions. We all know what the answers to questions are donâ€™t we. I guess in a valid consultation process answers should not be implied or hidden , but respondents given options to come with solutions.

pswtotier2 · Post by **pswtotier2** » Tue Jun 14, 2011 9:15 am

sunmoon wrote:http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... mmigration

the changes will affect those who enter to the T2 after 6th April 2011 and expect to apply for settlement in 2016, So all other T2 holder are safe I think !

what will happen to those who already working in the PSW work permit and switching to tier2 after April 2011. they did not mention anything about PSW holders????

Sheffield_Marketeer · Post by **Sheffield_Marketeer** » Tue Jun 14, 2011 9:19 am

Hi pswtotier2

from what I have gathered until now, people on PSW moving on to Tier 2 will be affected by these rules.

Sorry to be a bearer of bad news, but seems like that's what is going to be. UNLESS PSW to Tier 2 switchers are given a special allowance, which I doubt.

We are one of those who will be affected as well.

hham1224 · Post by **hham1224** » Tue Jun 14, 2011 9:36 am

ukswus wrote:
Polat wrote:
ukswus wrote:I have to say, I am very pleased with this document. All the proposed changes will only apply to those who entered the country after April 2011:

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... iew=Binary
where is it mentioned that wll be apply for those entered the UK after April 2011 ???
page 12:

"Apply these changes to those entering the points-based system from April 2011."

Page 16:

"Now we intend to embark on a more radical overhaul of the settlement rules to break the automatic link between coming to work and staying permanently. We propose to apply these new settlement criteria to those entering Tiers 1 and 2 from April 2011."

But one thing which i believe is that

page 12:

"Apply these changes to those entering the points-based system from April 2011."

This means that if one apply on and after 6 April 2011 will be affected and have no rights to settlement.

Is there any changes to the legal long residence rules if one spent 10 year lawful residence in UK because I believe it is a EU law can this be changed by UK.

mulderpf · Post by **mulderpf** » Tue Jun 14, 2011 11:42 am

The reason there are no concrete answers here is because this is a consultation. Whilst there are recommendations made, these are not final and the details will not become clear until the guidance is published. This happened with previous consultations where people go word-by-word on the consultation document and email UKBA and Home Office, but when the final details are published, the rules are either significantly different or there are technical changes.

Focus on details right now, I don't think will get anyone anywhere, because it's not final yet until the consultation is complete. The implementation of it may very well end up being different to the existing proposals.

Agastya80 · Post by **Agastya80** » Tue Jun 14, 2011 12:37 pm

mulderpf wrote:The reason there are no concrete answers here is because this is a consultation. Whilst there are recommendations made, these are not final and the details will not become clear until the guidance is published. ................................yet until the consultation is complete. The implementation of it may very well end up being different to the existing proposals.

I agree with 'mulderpf'. You are absolutely correct friend. As these are not guidelines yet therefore we can only speculate and discuss about these new proposed rules. Actual guidelines when published may or may not be significant different. When new guidelines were issued for Tier 2 just before 6th April 2011 there were no mention of the new rule that Tier 2 ICTs will not be able to switch into Tier 2 general no matter when you got your first Tier 2 ICT. I did challenge that as I was affected and sent several email to UKBA for clarification and referring them to papers published earlier regarding proposed changes. All I got an answer eventually was that that papers published before were only intent of the government and not rules. Rules are as they published in the guidance. All in all it was a setback as I and most of other Tier 2 ICts didnâ€™t see that coming. The point is that until UKBA confirm clearly in their guidanceâ€™s we can only speculate and in reality rules might be different when applied.

tier_Graduate · Post by **tier_Graduate** » Tue Jun 14, 2011 12:51 pm

Guys please help..My situation is as follows:

I graduated in the UK University under Tier 4 visa and I'm currently working in a full time graduate position under Tier 2 (General) w.e.f April, 2011 in London. As per new UKBA rule starting 6 April, I do not come under the 20,700 Tier 2 visa cap per year as my Certificate of Sponsorship was 'unrestricted' (application made inside the UK).

I learned that Tier 2 visa's core purpose is to meet short-term skills shortages faced by the employers. In my case, I joined as a fresh graduate (entry level) under Tier 2 along with structured training currently being provided by my employer, a leading investment bank. I have not filled up a short term vacancy as this job is obtained through university campus recruitment by employers.

They speak about those who enter the UK from April 2011..

My questions are:
1. Will the proposed changes be applicable to those employee migrants who enter the UK using the 20700 Tier 2 visa (or) will it be applicable to all Tier 2 (General) visa holders starting April 2011 (i.e. applications made in both inside and outside UK and university graduates)?

2. Moreover, I have received my Tier 2 even before the changes would be made in the coming months. Will the new changes be applicable to me as well? Is there anyway can I overcome this?

Query

Re: Query

Immigrationboards.com: Immigration, work visa and work permit discussion board

Consultation on changes to employment-related settlement

Query

Re: Query