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Forum to discuss all things Blarney | Ireland immigration

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Directive/2004/38/EC
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Location: does not matter if you are with your EEA family member

Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Tue May 22, 2007 9:22 am

Platinum wrote:Given that SOLVIT keep saying that not having the residency card in no way prevents the non-EU spouse from working, and that living with your spouse and working in the host EU country is a right, what do you think will happen if we just look for jobs and start working?

I mean, I, for instance, already have a PPS number, and when I've talked to recruiters and HR people at job fairs, when I say that I'm married to an EU citizen, they just say, Oh, yeah, that's fine. Not one of them gives any indication that I'd have to do any special paperwork at all. They all assume this means I have full right to work here.

Do you suppose the DoJ or DETE or anyone would really do anything if they found out?
You have a clear legal right to work in Ireland if you are the non-EU spouse of an EU citizen who is living in Ireland (and, if it is over 3 months, the EU citizen is exercising treaty rights).

Most likely nobody will even notice that you are working, other than that you earn money (and stay occupied), and your employer gets work done. Oh, and you pay taxes.

In the off chance that they figure out you are working...

They might try to go after you, but they will stir up a hornet's nest at the EU, and I doubt they will do it.

They might threaten your employer (even if the threats have no teeth), so you either need to have an employer who understands the situation and is up to speed on your rights, or be willing to risk it.

archigabe
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Post by archigabe » Tue May 22, 2007 12:33 pm

Here's a link to the Europa website with links to legal cases regarding European Free labour movement legislation

http://ec.europa.eu/justice_home/fsj/ci ... ent_en.htm
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex ... 1):EN:HTML

Even if we can show the fascist Irish government all the European laws we want, i guess it wont be of much use!

Birdy
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Post by Birdy » Tue May 22, 2007 1:36 pm

That is kinda what ive been trying to say they dont care they arent interested in law they are interested in what works for them and they know in our situation we are unlikely to Protest or bring action or have the money o bring action ETC
Happy now in the U.K. not so happy about the Rugby

archigabe
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Case C-1/05:Yunying Jia v Migrationsverket, 9th jan 2007

Post by archigabe » Thu May 24, 2007 3:31 pm

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/sit ... 020003.pdf

Judgment of the European COURT OF JUSTICE (Grand Chamber) of 9 January 2007 (reference for a preliminary ruling from the Länssratten i Stockholms län—Migrationsdomstolen)

Yunying Jia v Migrationsverket

(Case C-1/05) (1)

(Freedom of establishment — Article 43 EC — Directive
73/148/EEC — National of one Member State established in
another Member State — Right to residence of a spouse's
parent, the spouse and the parent being nationals of a non-
Member country — Requirement that the parent be lawfully
resident in a Member State when joining his family in the
Member State of establishment — Evidence required to show
that the parent is a dependant)

(2007/C 42/04)
Language of the case: Swedish
Referring court:Länsrätten i Stockholms län — Migrationsdomstolen

Parties to the main proceedings
Applicant: Yunying Jia
Defendant: Migrationsverket
Re:
Reference for a preliminary ruling — Utlänningsnämnden (Alien Appeals Board) (Sweden) — Interpretation of Article 43 EC, Article 10 of Regulation (EEC) No 1612/68 of the Council of 15 October 1968 on freedom of movement for workers within the Community (OJ L 257, p. 2) and Articles 1(d) and 6(b) of Council Directive 73/148/EEC of 21 May 1973 on the abolition of restrictions on movement and residence within the Community for nationals of Member States with regard to establishment
and the provision of services (OJ L 172, p. 14) — Right to residence of a parent of a spouse, both holding the nationality of a non-Member State, of a national of a Member State resident in another Member State who is dependent on that citizen — Requirement for that parent to reside lawfully in a Member State when joining his family — Evidence required to
show that the parent is a dependent

Operative part of the judgment:

1. Having regard to the judgment in Case C-109/01 Akrich [2003]
ECR I-9607, Community law does not require Member States to make the grant of a residence permit to nationals of a non-Member State, who are members of the family of a Community national who has exercised his or her right of free movement, subject to the condition that those family members have previously been residing lawfully in another Member State;

2. Article 1(1)(d) of Council Directive 73/148/EEC of 21 May
1973 on the abolition of restrictions on movement and residence
within the Community for nationals of Member States with regard
to establishment and the provision of services is to be interpreted to
the effect that ‘dependent on them’ means that members of the
family of a Community national established in another Member
State within the meaning of Article 43 EC need the material
support of that Community national or his or her spouse in order
to meet their essential needs in the State of origin of those family
members or the State from which they have come at the time when
they apply to join that Community national. Article 6(b) of that
directive must be interpreted as meaning that proof of the need for
material support may be adduced by any appropriate means, while
a mere undertaking from the Community national or his or her
spouse to support the family members concerned need not be
regarded as establishing the existence of the family members' situation

Directive/2004/38/EC
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Location: does not matter if you are with your EEA family member

Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Fri May 25, 2007 8:27 am

The court judgement was written in Sweedish. I find this english translation very difficult to read. I hope the judgement is clear and this translation is bad.
Community law does not require Member States to make the grant of a residence permit to nationals of a non-Member State, who are members of the family of a Community national who has exercised his or her right of free movement, subject to the condition that those family members have previously been residing lawfully in another Member State;
I think the require is important, and it suggests that the Irish interpretation is not forced on them by EU law. But this also does not say that their interpretation is incorrect.
Last edited by Directive/2004/38/EC on Fri May 25, 2007 12:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

archigabe
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Post by archigabe » Fri May 25, 2007 12:38 pm

List of all Case laws involving mixed marriages in the E.U

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/Result.do?dire ... 20marriage

archigabe
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Post by archigabe » Fri May 25, 2007 12:48 pm

Some discussion points from ''Proposal for a Council Directive on the right to family reunification''

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex ... 638:EN:NOT

consider especially article 5.1

''5.1. Community law already contains provisions relating to family reunification of third-country nationals. The instruments governing free movement for Union citizens within the European Community apply to family members whether they are Community or third-country nationals. A Union citizen exercising the right to free movement may be accompanied or joined by his family; the terms for integration of the family in the host country are the sine qua non for the exercise of free movement in objective conditions of freedom and dignity.

5.2. The right to be accompanied or joined by the family is conferred on Union citizens who establish themselves in another Member State to exercise a gainful activity, whether they are employed workers [5] or self-employed [6]. The family members retain the right to reside in the host country, on certain conditions, where the Union citizen on whom they depend has ceased working [7]. In addition, the right to family reunification is enjoyed by Union citizens other than employed or self-employed workers who also enjoy the right to free movement, provided they have adequate resources and sickness insurance cover [8].''

[5] Regulation (EEC) No 1612/68, 15.10.1968 (OJ L 257, 19.10.1968 p. 2).

[6] Directive 73/148/EEC, 21.5.1973 (OJ L 172, 28.6.1973, p. 14).

[7] Regulation (EEC) No 1251/70, 29.6.1970 (OJ L 142, 30.6.1970, p. 24), and Directive 75/34/EEC, 17.12.1974 (OJ L 14, 20.1.1975, p. 28


http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex ... 225:EN:NOT

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex ... 257:EN:NOT

archigabe
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Post by archigabe » Fri May 25, 2007 6:16 pm

Apparently the Court Case against the DOJ is going to be decided on the 15th of June.Anyone else have any further details?

Another Agency who might have relevant Advice about Immigration in Ireland, though they seem more like a research agency.

IRISH CENTRE FOR MIGRATION STUDIES
http://migration.ucc.ie/immigration/

archigabe
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Post by archigabe » Tue Jun 05, 2007 10:44 am


runie80
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Post by runie80 » Tue Jun 05, 2007 10:45 am

Good one man excellent

Looks like the clouds of badlick are breaking and a bright horizon full of opertunities !

i cant wait !

archigabe
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Post by archigabe » Thu Jul 05, 2007 2:48 pm

Last edited by archigabe on Thu Jul 05, 2007 10:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

limey
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Location: France

Post by limey » Thu Jul 05, 2007 7:27 pm

Another useful website...

freedom of movement in the EU
the ins and the outs of this work in progress (including Directive 2004/38/EC)


http://eumovement.wordpress.com/info-ireland/

Villea
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Post by Villea » Thu Jul 05, 2007 10:44 pm

0000000
Last edited by Villea on Tue Jul 17, 2007 1:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

limey
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Post by limey » Thu Jul 05, 2007 11:08 pm

Are they still processing your EEA application?

Villea
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Post by Villea » Thu Jul 05, 2007 11:30 pm

Yes Limey they are still processing the application

Villea
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Post by Villea » Thu Jul 05, 2007 11:34 pm

They send me only my passport and my husband passport, they are still holoding the other documents. So hopefully they are processing it.

Plaasjapie
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Post by Plaasjapie » Tue Jul 10, 2007 5:40 pm

0000
Last edited by Plaasjapie on Sun Jul 15, 2007 2:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Villea
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Need advice on EU Law

Post by Villea » Wed Jul 11, 2007 6:27 pm

Hi Plaasjabie

For sure im not going to tell them that im working unless they ask for. If they don't know the law im very sorry for them and will just leave them to their ignorance.

walrusgumble
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Post by walrusgumble » Mon Jul 16, 2007 9:08 pm

lads make sure ye save copies of your emails and other correspondences that you send to the dept if you have not already, in case some of ye ever decide to challenge this rule. it will show evidence that ye have exausted all avenues to deal with your case if it is brought to court.

i know many of ye wont want to go to court due to expenses etc but at least keep your copies as back up, if you have not already

archigabe
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Post by archigabe » Fri Jul 20, 2007 4:39 pm

Commission communication to the European Parliament and the European ombudsman on relations with the complainant in respect of infringements of community law
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/smartapi/cgi/s ... l=guichett

2. General principles

Anyone may file a complaint with the Commission free of charge against a Member State about any measure (law, regulation or administrative action) or practice by a Member State which they consider incompatible with a provision or principle of Community law.

3. Recording of complaints

Any correspondence which is likely to be investigated as a complaint shall be recorded in the central registry of complaints kept by the Secretariat-General of the Commission.

Correspondence shall not be investigable as a complaint by the Commission, and shall therefore not be recorded in the central registry of complaints, if:

- it is anonymous, fails to show the address of the sender or shows an incomplete address;

- it fails to refer, explicitly or implicitly, to a Member State to which the measures or practice contrary to Community law may be attributed;

- it denounces the acts or omissions of a private person or body, unless the measure or complaint reveals the involvement of public authorities or alleges their failure to act in response to those acts or omissions. In all cases, the Commission shall verify whether the correspondence discloses behaviour that is contrary to the competition rules (Articles 81 and 82 of the EC Treaty);

- it fails to set out a grievance;

- it sets out a grievance with regard to which the Commission has adopted a clear, public and consistent position, which shall be communicated to the complainant;

- it sets out a grievance which clearly falls outside the scope of Community law.

Where there is doubt as to the nature of an item of correspondence, the Secretariat-General of the Commission shall consult the department(s) concerned within fifteen calendar days of receipt. If the department(s) fail to reply within fifteen working days, the complaint shall be formally recorded at the central registry of complaints.

To speed up the processing of complaints, the Commission will provide complainants with a standard complaint form, as published in the Official Journal of the European Communities [7] and available from the Commission on request or on the European Communities' Europa server at the following address: http://europa.eu.int/comm/secretariat_g ... orm_en.htm

Written complaints may be sent to the Commission Secretariat-General (B-1049 Brussels, fax: +32.2.295.39.13; e-mail: SG-PLAINTES@cec.eu.int), or lodged with one of the Commission's offices in the Member States.

7. Communication with complainants

The Commission departments will contact complainants and inform them in writing, after each Commission decision (formal notice, reasoned opinion, referral to the Court or closure of the case), of the steps taken in response to their complaint.

Where a number of complaints are lodged in relation to the same grievance, individual acknowledgements may be replaced by a publication in the Official Journal of the European Communities and on the European Communities' Europa server.

At any point during the procedure complainants may ask to explain or clarify to the Commission officials, on the spot and at their own expense, the grounds for their complaint.

8. Time limit for investigating complaints

As a general rule, Commission departments will investigate complaints with a view to arriving at a decision to issue a formal notice or to close the case within not more than one year from the date of registration of the complaint by the Secretariat-General.

Where this time limit is exceeded, the Commission department responsible for the case will inform the complainant in writing.

9. Outcome of the investigation of complaints

After investigating the complaint, Commission officials may ask the College of Commissioners either to issue a formal notice opening proceedings against the Member State in question, or to close the case definitively.

The Commission will decide on the matter at its discretion. This discretion shall cover not only the desirability of opening or terminating an infringement procedure but also the choice of complaint.

Complainants will be informed in writing of the decision taken by the Commission in connection with their complaint and any subsequent Commission decisions on the matter.

Where a number of complaints are lodged in relation to the same grievance, individual acknowledgements may be replaced by a publication in the Official Journal of the European Communities and on the European Communities' Europa server.

10. Closure of the case

Unless there are exceptional circumstances requiring urgent measures, where a Commission department intends to propose that no further action be taken on a complaint, it will give the complainant prior notice thereof in a letter setting out the grounds on which it is proposing that the case be closed and inviting the complainant to submit any comments within a period of four weeks.

Where a number of complaints are lodged in relation to the same grievance, individual acknowledgements may be replaced by a publication in the Official Journal of the European Communities and on the European Communities' Europa server.

Where the complainant does not reply, or where the complainant cannot be contacted for reasons for which he/she is responsible, or where the complainant's observations do not persuade the department to reconsider its position, a proposal to close the case will be put forward. In that event, the complainant will be informed of the Commission's decision.

Where the complainant's observations persuade the department concerned to reconsider its position, investigation of the complaint will continue.

11. Simplified procedure for closing cases

Infringement cases in which no letter of formal notice has been dispatched may be closed under a simplified administrative procedure that does not involve discussion by the College of Commissioners.

This procedure may be applied in cases where initial examination by the Commission departments has made it quite clear that the complaint is either groundless or irrelevant; or that there is no evidence, or insufficient evidence, to substantiate the complaint. The procedure may also be applied where the complainant shows no further interest in the prosecution of the complaint.

Where a Commission department intends to use this procedure, it will inform the complainant thereof in accordance with the procedure described in point 10.

12. Publicising infringement decisions

Commission decisions on infringement cases are published within one week of their adoption on the Secretariat-General's Internet site at the following address: http://europa.eu.int/comm/secretariat_g ... dex_en.htm

archigabe
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Monitoring the Application of Community law

Post by archigabe » Fri Jul 20, 2007 4:45 pm

Monitoring the Application of Community law

http://ec.europa.eu/community_law/eulaw/index_en.htm

Decisions on multiple complaints
http://ec.europa.eu/community_law/compl ... dex_en.htm

Lets keep an eye on these pages in case our problems come up there.

archigabe
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Post by archigabe » Mon Jul 23, 2007 10:24 pm

List of E.U directives transposed into Irish law.
http://www.entemp.ie/trade/eudirectives/

petereliot1
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confused !!!!!

Post by petereliot1 » Wed Jul 25, 2007 3:27 pm

hello,
1)i am waiting for my eu1 decision and my 3 month visitor visa samp expires next week, i went to the visa office and the guy said i dont need a visa extention as i am waiting for the eu1 decision is that ok?
2)would i be considered illegal as i dont have anything in written?
3)i have applied for a spouse\dependent work permit which might take a month, will my secood question effect this process?
4) wht if our eu1 is declined do i still get to work for 12 months on my spouse\dependent work permit (if i get it of course)?
thank you.

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