Question on absences from UK in Set(O) form

nuaaxiayu · Post by **nuaaxiayu** » Tue Aug 22, 2023 2:14 pm

Dear experts,

Sorry if my question has been asked before, I am currently holding a Tier-2 (General) Skilled Worker visa and now applying for my ILR via Set (O) form together with my PBS dependents after I become eligible. I had a few driving offences/parking tickets in the past few years, which were:

(1) Fixed Penalty Notice (FPN) for speeding offence SP30 on 28-Nov-2020 given by police, I have paid the £100 fine in time and my full UK driving licence still has 3 points on it due to this offence, which would be removed this November.

(2) A SP30 offence on 08-Nov-2020 (i.e. 20 days before the above FPN), but I was offered the speed awareness course by the police and have attended this course in February 2021. No fines or points were given to me, and I am not sure if this SP30 offence counts as another FPN?

(3) A fine given by the local council for driving on the bus lane in 2019. I have paid the fine online in time.

(4) A parking ticket issued by another local council for parking on a resident parking bay, I have paid the fine online in time.

(5) A parking fine issued by a private shoppping mall (or local coucil?) for forgetting to pay the parking fee beyond the 2-hour free-parking window. I have paid the fine online in time.

As far as I could remember, the above were all my driving offences/tickets during my Tier-2 visa period. In the Set(O) form for ILR, there is a question called:

Your driving offence

What was your driving offence?

Give more detail, for example, the fine or points on your licence

My question is, which one(s) of my above-mentioned driving offcences should be disclosed for this ILR question?

Many thanks in advance,

Steve

lolo2 · Post by **lolo2** » Tue Aug 22, 2023 2:52 pm

The form is telling you what has to be declared.

What was your driving offence?

Give more detail, for example, the fine or points on your licence

Need to give details about the points on the licence (1).

The other fines are irrelevant, those were given on your car not on your licence.

nuaaxiayu · Post by **nuaaxiayu** » Tue Aug 22, 2023 3:00 pm

Dear lolo2,

Many thanks for your prompt reply, do you mean I just need to disclose my FPN (i.e. item no. 1 on my list) on my ILR Set (O) form?

Also, may I ask if the item no. 2 on my list (SP30 offence but attended speed awareness course instead) would be counted as another FPN and need to be disclosed? I am a bit worried as both SP30 offences (item no. 1 and 2) happened within only 20 days time.

On my UK driving license, there is only one offence, which was the FPN on 28-Nov-2020 (i.e. item no. 1 on my list) as mentioned above. The earlier SP30 offence was not endorsed on my driving license as I have attended the speed awareness course offered by the police.

FInally, I also have 2 at-fault car accidents in 2018, within 2 weeks time, should I also disclose them on my ILR Set (O) form?

Many thanks again,

Steve

lolo2 · Post by **lolo2** » Tue Aug 22, 2023 3:16 pm

(1) was a consequence of repeating (2) in a very short time. Likely you were warned about that when offered the speed awareness course.

(2) is not recorded on the licence once it's successfully completed. No need to be declared.

It seems there are more repeated offences, it might be good to know the opinion of others.

I only could think of having a read at this guidance. Guidance - criminality

nuaaxiayu · Post by **nuaaxiayu** » Tue Aug 22, 2023 3:28 pm

lolo2 wrote: ↑
Tue Aug 22, 2023 3:16 pm
(1) was a consequence of repeating (2) in a very short time. Likely you were warned about that when offered the speed awareness course.

(2) is not recorded on the licence once it's successfully completed. No need to be declared.

It seems there are more repeated offences, it might be good to know the opinion of others.

I only could think of having a read at this guidance. Guidance - criminality

Dear lolo2,

Thank you again for your prompt and detailed reply, I do appreciate. Due to mail delay, I received 2 NIP letters for (1) and (2) on 08 Dec 2020, and for (2) it was already after the 14-day window but I still accepted it and did not challenge it to avoid going to the court. After I responded to both NIP letters, my first offence (i.e. item (2)) was offered a speed awareness course via police letter, and my second offence (i.e. item (1)) was given an FPN also via police letter. Actually, no police warning message was given to me about repeating 2 offences in 20 days time in any of the received police letters.

I am not sure what you mean about "there are more repeated offences? The only 2 repeated offences were my SP30 offences in November 2020 as mentioned above. I am not sure if my at-fault car accidents were counted as driving offences as police was not involved in either accident and my car insurance has paid out and settled with the non-fault driviers.

I have read the sections in your shared UKVI guidance, and to me it seems that I only need to disclose FPN (i.e. item 1) in my ILR application, am I correct?

Yes please could you invite others to share their opinions on my inquiry if convenient?

Many thanks aagin,

Steve

nuaaxiayu · Post by **nuaaxiayu** » Tue Aug 22, 2023 4:07 pm

Dear experts,

Sorry if my question has been asked before, I am currently holding a Tier-2 (General) Skilled Worker visa and now applying for my ILR via Set (O) form together with my PBS dependents after I become eligible.

In 2021 my child had an injury at home and the nursery suspected it was our fault and asked a social worker to investigate. We took our child to the hospital for the checks and it turns out it was not our fault and the social worker has closed the case after visiting us at home. This case was not passed to the police.

Does anyone know if we need to disclose this closed social worker case in our ILR application form, regarding the question on Convictions and other penalties?

Many thanks,

Steve

Post by **zimba** » Tue Aug 22, 2023 4:15 pm

First of all, DO NOT start a new post for each query. Stick to this topic for ALL your queries!
Minor driving offences like accidents and speeding do NOT have any effect on ILR unless you had many such offences committed over a short period of time. The social worker investigation case has NO relevance to your ILR either

nuaaxiayu · Post by **nuaaxiayu** » Tue Aug 22, 2023 5:22 pm

zimba wrote: ↑
Tue Aug 22, 2023 4:15 pm
First of all, DO NOT start a new post for each query. Stick to this topic for ALL your queries!
Minor driving offences like accidents and speeding do NOT have any effect on ILR unless you had many such offences committed over a short period of time. The social worker investigation case has NO relevance to your ILR either

Dear Zimba,

Thank you for your reply and apologize for starting multiple inquiries, so just to clarify - do you think my repeated two SP30 offences in 2020 (within 20 days) and two at-fault accidents in 2018 (within 14 days) need to be disclosed? Or would you suggest I ONLY disclose the single FPN (£100 fine and 3 points on my license) which I received for my 2nd SP30 offence on 28 Nov 2020?

I also have a few other questions related to my Tier-2 absences (including my PBS dependants):

(1) I was granted my current 5-year Tier 2 visa on 14 September 2018 but my job started on 15 October 2018. I was holding a Tier-4 Student Visa before that and I traveled abroad between 25 - 30 September 2018 using my newly-granted Tier-2 visa in order to attend a conference and present my student research. As this absence happened before my employment started, my employer could not provide me a letter stating it was for business purposes or for my annual leave, so could I provide other evidence for this pre-employment Tier-2 absence? I could actually find my conference attendance report on the website of a charity that mentioned my conference presentation in their online newsletter.

(2) Both my partner and my non-UK born child had their current PBS dependant visa granted on 03 December 2018, a few months after I was granted my Tier-2 visa. Before that they were both holding old PBS dependant visas linked to my Tier-4 student visa, so which date should they put as their first date entered the UK? Should it be 14 September 2018 (i.e. same as my Tier-2 visa issue date)? Or should it be the issue date for their current PBS dependant visa (i.e., 03 December 2018)? All of us were within the UK on our visa issue dates.

(3) The Set (O) form for ILR also asks my PBS dependent partner that:

Have you had any absences from the UK during any leave granted since 11 January 2018?

My partner actually traveled abroad in April 2018 using her old PBS dependant visa (issued in Jan 2016) linked to my Tier-4 student visa, should she disclose this absence in April 2018 even if it was before her current PBS dependant visa was issued?

(4) Finally, could we directly register our another UK-born child as a British citizen after both my and my partner's ILRs have been granted (i.e. skipping our UK-born child's ILR)? If so, what if our UK-born child's current PBS dependant visa expires before our ILRs have been granted?

Thank you again,

Steve

Post by **zimba** » Tue Aug 22, 2023 5:55 pm

Only declare the FPN. There is no effect on ILR

1. There is no such requirement under the rules but it seems some applicants have their own perceptions here. No employer has to verify what you did during your absences from work (how would they know??) so they are not expected to confirm any dates you spent outside the UK either. A sponsor simply confirms that all absences from work were approved by them, that is all. Absences before starting a job are not an issue either.
All you need to know about the sponsor letter for Skilled Worker route

2. The date they actually entered the UK. That date on the form has NOTHING to do with their ILR application and their eligibility

3. No. It is clearly telling you to declare absence for any visa issued AFTER 11 Jan 2018

4. A UK-born child has an automatic entitlement to be registered as a British citizen when one parent settles. Such a child does NOT even need a valid visa or ILR. It has no effect on his registration application

nuaaxiayu · Post by **nuaaxiayu** » Tue Aug 22, 2023 6:46 pm

Dear Zimba,

Thank you so much for your prompt reply, very helpful and I appreciate it.

For your answer to my 2nd question

"2. The date they actually entered the UK. That date on the form has NOTHING to do with their ILR application and their eligibility",

actually I want to clarify that the Set(O) form asks us to put the first dates we entered the UK which our current ILR applications are based on , so for myself, should I put my Tier-2 visa issue date (14 September 2018) as my first date entering UK under my current Tier-2 visa, even though I have been within UK since 2013 (on student visas before)? Similarly, should I put my partner's and my child's first UK entering dates the same as mine (i.e., 14 September 2018), even though they have already been within UK since 2013 and 2017 respectively?

I also have a few more questions, hope you do not mind:

(1) My BRP card was mistakenly canceled by home office staff when my partner was applying for her first PBS dependant visa in person in January 2016 at a Home Office Visa Centre, when I put my own Tier-4 student BRP card as a supporting document, but the staff at the HO visa center has mistakenly canceled my BRP. I received a letter from HO acknowledging their mistake at the scene and I received a newly-issued BRP card for my student Tier-4 visa after a few days (with the same expiry date and all the other information on it as the canceled BRP card). Should I disclose this incident as an immigration problem in my ILR application form?

(2) For the co-habitation documents, the Set(O) form asks for: "documentary evidence of cohabitation since you were last granted leave (up to a maximum of two years)." Should the date of these documents be counted from my application date up to the last 2 years (e.g., 2022-2023)? Or could it be any continuous 2 years (e.g., 2019-2020) within my 5-year Tier-2 visa period?

Many thanks again,

Steve

Post by **CR001** » Tue Aug 22, 2023 6:53 pm

You really are overthinking things!

(1) My BRP card was mistakenly canceled by home office staff when my partner was applying for her first PBS dependant visa in person in January 2016 at a Home Office Visa Centre, when I put my own Tier-4 student BRP card as a supporting document, but the staff at the HO visa center has mistakenly canceled my BRP. I received a letter from HO acknowledging their mistake at the scene and I received a newly-issued BRP card for my student Tier-4 visa after a few days (with the same expiry date and all the other information on it as the canceled BRP card). Should I disclose this incident as an immigration problem in my ILR application form?

This is irrelevant.

(2) For the co-habitation documents, the Set(O) form asks for: "documentary evidence of cohabitation since you were last granted leave (up to a maximum of two years)." Should the date of these documents be counted from my application date up to the last 2 years (e.g., 2022-2023)? Or could it be any continuous 2 years (e.g., 2019-2020) within my 5-year Tier-2 visa period?

It must be the 2 years immediately preceding your ILR date of application.

Post by **zimba** » Tue Aug 22, 2023 6:56 pm

The answers on the form are NOT strictly used to evaluate your eligibility, the ONLY standard is the immigration rules. Application forms are just terrible. They make applicants confused and worried for no reason. Just bear in mind that your application will be evaluated according to the immigration rules ONLY.

The date your enter on the form is not important at all. ILR eligibility is based on the visa period not what you put on the form. It can be whatever as it has no effect on the application.

1. No
2. There is no specific evidence or requirements under the rules for this. You provide whatever you have and covering the last two years but there is no exact requirement at all.

I suggest NOT overthinking every little issue.

nuaaxiayu · Post by **nuaaxiayu** » Wed Aug 23, 2023 3:28 pm

Dear Zimba, CR001

Thank you both for your kind reply and suggestions, I really appreciate it and would no longer overthink too much. Just to help me with my ILR applications, if you were me, would you put 14 September 2018 (my Tier-2 visa issue date) as the date of first entry for my PBS dependants as well? I am still not sure how to choose a first UK entry date for them, should it be (1) my Tier-2 visa issue date (14 Sept 2018), or (2) their current PBS dependant visa issue date (03 Dec 2018)?

I beleive my partner also needs to complete the 5 full years' PBS dependant period like me, so if I put her current PBS dependant visa issue date (03 December 2018) as her first UK entry date which her ILR application is based on, then it will be less than 5 years for her, even though she has hold multiple PBS visas for more than 7 years in total, so could I put my Tier-2 visa issue date (14 Sept 2018) as her first UK entry date? Please advise me.

For the 2 year co-habitation documents, I do not have them dated immediately preceding the ILR application date, as they were either issued annually (e.g., my council tax bills) or quarterly (e.g., utilities bills), plus some other evidences are covering only 1 year period, is it ok for me to submit them to support my applications?

FInally, I also had one US B1 visa application refused in May 2023 due to 221(g) reasons, and I was asked to disclose it in my ILR application form, which I will do, but do you think this US visa refusal would have any large negative impact on my UK ILR application?

Thank you again,

Steve

Post by **zimba** » Wed Aug 23, 2023 4:33 pm

You put the date asked, which is the very first entry to the UK. Cohabitation documents are ok no need for anything to be exact. The US visa refusal has no relevance here

nuaaxiayu · Post by **nuaaxiayu** » Wed Aug 23, 2023 5:17 pm

Dear Zimba,

Thank you very much and please forgive me for asking the question on "first UK entry date" again and again, here are a few more details:

My partner first entered UK for the first time on 20 June 2014 on her own Tier-4 Student visa, and my non-UK-born child first entered UK for the first time on 5 June 2017 on a PBS dependant visa (linked to my previous Tier-4 student visa). The question being asked for them in their ILR application forms is as follows:

When did you first enter the UK?

This is the date you entered the UK when the period of stay you are basing this application on started.

Since my partner and non-UK born child are both applying for ILR together with me based on my current Tier-2 Skilled Worker visa, which was issued on 14 September 2018, how could they answer the above question? Should they write their above very first UK entry dates (20 June 2014 and 5 June 2017 respectively), or should they both write the date of 14 September 2018 like me?

Thank you again,

Steve

Post by **AmazonianX** » Thu Aug 24, 2023 3:18 am

nuaaxiayu wrote: ↑
Wed Aug 23, 2023 5:17 pm
Dear Zimba,

Thank you very much and please forgive me for asking the question on "first UK entry date" again and again, here are a few more details:

My partner first entered UK for the first time on 20 June 2014 on her own Tier-4 Student visa, and my non-UK-born child first entered UK for the first time on 5 June 2017 on a PBS dependant visa (linked to my previous Tier-4 student visa). The question being asked for them in their ILR application forms is as follows:

When did you first enter the UK?

This is the date you entered the UK when the period of stay you are basing this application on started. which date are they using as the start date for counting the 5years period on which this ILR application is based?

Since my partner and non-UK born child are both applying for ILR together with me based on my current Tier-2 Skilled Worker visa, which was issued on 14 September 2018, how could they answer the above question? Should they write their above very first UK entry dates (20 June 2014 and 5 June 2017 respectively), or should they both write the date of 14 September 2018 like me?

Thank you again,

Steve

nuaaxiayu · Post by **nuaaxiayu** » Thu Aug 24, 2023 2:24 pm

Dear AmazonianX,

Thank you for your comments, my wife was firstly granted a PBS dependant visa on 23 January 2016, and has held 2 consecutive PBS dependant visas since then for more than 7.5 years. For her to complete her 5 years continuous stay under PBS dependant visa route, could she put any date as her "first UK entry date" between 23 January 2016 and 14 September 2018 (my Tier-2 visa issue date) for the above ILR application question?

For my non-UK-born child, does he also need to complete the 5 year continuous time period? I thought child would be exempted from this 5-year rule.

Thank you,

Steve

Post by **zimba** » Thu Aug 24, 2023 2:33 pm

It seems you do not want to let this thing go. The date you put on the form has no bearing on the ILR application. This has now been emphasised many many times. The date of first entry to the UK will suffice for the answer to that question

Also, children do NOT have any residence requirements for ILR. They settle when both parents settle (or will settle with them)

nuaaxiayu · Post by **nuaaxiayu** » Thu Aug 24, 2023 5:17 pm

Dear Zimba,

I apologize for repeating the question about the first UK entry date, and ok I may just put 14 September 2018 (my Tier-2 visa issue date) for all the ILR applicants.

I just have another quick question about declaring my SP30 speeding £100 fine and 3 points on my driving license in my Set (O) form. Should I declare it under the category of:

A penalty for a driving offence, for example disqualification for speeding or no motor insurance

or under another category of:

A caution, warning, reprimand or other out-of-court penalty

For the 2nd category, there is a sub-entry called "Fixed Penalty Notice (FPN)". I did receive one FPN for my above SP30 speeding fine and points. So I am a bit confused which category to choose.

Personally, I feel I should declare my driving offence ONLY ONCE in the above first category ONLY, for its relevance, would you agree? If so, do you think I should also mention that this offence was registered under a Fixed Penalty Notice in the textbox provided?

Thank you,

Steve

Post by **zimba** » Thu Aug 24, 2023 5:55 pm

It is just one offence and in fact, there is no requirement to declare a speeding offence at all. As usual, you are overthinking this. If you want to, you may declare the speeding under 'A penalty for a driving offence, for example disqualification for speeding or no motor insurance'

nuaaxiayu · Post by **nuaaxiayu** » Fri Sep 01, 2023 1:45 am

Dear Zimba,

Thank you for your advice, I appreciate, and sorry for my late reply. In the driving offence disclosure part of the Set(O) form, I was asked to input the Penalty Date. Is it same as the Offence Date when my speeding happened? Or should I put the date when I received the Fixed Penalty Notice letter for the above offence (I believe I paid the fine online on the same day)?

I could find my exact offence date via the DVLA website, but I do not remember exactly the date when I received the FPN letter, which was around one month after the offence date. So if you think I have to input the FPN letter date, could I put an approximate date?

Thank you.

Post by **zimba** » Fri Sep 01, 2023 1:59 am

Just enter the FPN date

nuaaxiayu · Post by **nuaaxiayu** » Sat Sep 02, 2023 8:10 am

Dear Zimba,

Thank you for your kind advice, however I no longer have the FPN letter so do not remember the date when the letter was issued. Could I put the estimated date (around 20 Dec 2020) when I received the letter as the "penalty date"?

Thank you.

Post by **zimba** » Sun Sep 03, 2023 3:58 am

Again, the date does not matter here. Any date you have on a relevant document can be entered

nuaaxiayu · Post by **nuaaxiayu** » Tue Sep 05, 2023 10:08 am

Dear Zimba,

Thank you again. For our cohabitation documents, would it be okay for some documents to print "Mr" before my name, and some to print "Dr" before my name? Currently, I am a Doctor and use the "Dr" title, but I do not have my title updated for all my supporting documents.

Similarly, my wife has some documents printing "Miss" before her name, while some print the correct "Mrs" title. Does she need to update her title to "Mrs" for all her documents?

Thank you.

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