After EU referendum is British Citizenship worth?

After Brit-exit does it make any sense to apply for British Citizenship or is it worth staying as a PR holder?I know this is very early post bust just to trigger peoples thoughts and ideas and i am creating this post.

ram14esh wrote:After Brit-exit does it make any sense to apply for British Citizenship or is it worth staying as a PR holder?

PR is EU laws. EU laws will end.

The OP currently has ILR, not PR.

It depends what worth you place on British citizenship. I value British citizenship because of my affection for the UK and British values, not as an EU-wide visa. So, I am happy and proud to retain my British citizenship even if the UK leaves the EU.

On the other hand, if all that a British passport means to you is passport-free travel and your real loyalty lies to your country of origin, you may be better retaining that citizenship and keeping ILR.

ram14esh wrote:After Brit-exit does it make any sense to apply for British Citizenship or is it worth staying as a PR holder?I know this is very early post bust just to trigger peoples thoughts and ideas and i am creating this post.

There have been British citizens for hundreds if not a couple of thousand years.
PR has only been around for a decade or so.

In the current world order of the Westphalian paradigm (sovereignty of nation states) I suggest British citizenship is worth more (on many levels) than a federalist-style status (and an associated confirmatory document).

noajthan wrote:In the current world order of the Westphalian paradigm (sovereignty of nation states) I suggest British citizenship is worth more (on many levels) than a federalist-style status (and an associated confirmatory document).

I agree entirely with this eloquent statement by Noajthan.

It is ironic that the current Westphalian paradigm arose from the wars of the Holy Roman Empire, an entity with a history and constitution not unlike the European Union. History goes around in circles.

secret.simon wrote:

noajthan wrote:In the current world order of the Westphalian paradigm (sovereignty of nation states) I suggest British citizenship is worth more (on many levels) than a federalist-style status (and an associated confirmatory document).

I agree entirely with this eloquent statement by Noajthan.

It is ironic that the current Westphalian paradigm arose from the wars of the Holy Roman Empire, an entity with a history and constitution not unlike the European Union. History goes around in circles.

And, ironically, despite valuing citizenship as a refuge in a troubled world, I recognise and see merit in experiments in still evolving forms of democracy: federalism, democratic confederalism, grassroots community-based democracy & etc.
Namely evolutions of the somewhat earlier Athenian model rather than the Roman model.

Yes I hold ILR and thanks for all those responses. After bit of analysis I made up my mind to go for British Citizenship and as people posted here it has its own merits/value definitely and I am hoping that UK will bounce back and will become much more stronger than ever before.

secret.simon wrote: I value British citizenship because of my affection for the UK and British values, not as an EU-wide visa.

What about those of us who value British citizenship because of our affection for the UK and British values and and value our rights and privilidges as EU citizens, not only for ourselves, but for our children whose lives, with its range of posibilities (now diminished) are all still ahead of them? I think that it is not right to challenge my loyalty or my understanding of the privilidge of UK citizenship just because I want more for myself and for my children than only that.There world is a much bigger place than that, and getting smaller and more interconnected. We've hamstrung ourselves on this account, especially for the future generations of British citizens to follow.

ouflak1 wrote:

secret.simon wrote: I value British citizenship because of my affection for the UK and British values, not as an EU-wide visa.

What about those of us who value British citizenship because of our affection for the UK and British values and and value our rights and privilidges as EU citizens, not only for ourselves, but for our children whose lives, with its range of posibilities (now diminished) are all still ahead of them? I think that it is not right to challenge my loyalty or my understanding of the privilidge of UK citizenship just because I want more for myself and for my children than only that.There world is a much bigger place than that, and getting smaller and more interconnected. We've hamstrung ourselves on this account, especially for the future generations of British citizens to follow.

I'm British born and bred and I'm actively looking to relocate to mainland EU now, was my plan to retire in a Germanic country but this most likely puts the kybosh on that. Gonna have to work on a plan to acquite another EU citizenship I think. Assuming the worst.

Hopefully have a sizeable chunk of work coming up in Scandinavia, might try and plan something around that.

Wanderer wrote:

ouflak1 wrote:

secret.simon wrote: I value British citizenship because of my affection for the UK and British values, not as an EU-wide visa.

What about those of us who value British citizenship because of our affection for the UK and British values and and value our rights and privilidges as EU citizens, not only for ourselves, but for our children whose lives, with its range of posibilities (now diminished) are all still ahead of them? I think that it is not right to challenge my loyalty or my understanding of the privilidge of UK citizenship just because I want more for myself and for my children than only that.There world is a much bigger place than that, and getting smaller and more interconnected. We've hamstrung ourselves on this account, especially for the future generations of British citizens to follow.

I'm British born and bred and I'm actively looking to relocate to mainland EU now, was my plan to retire in a Germanic country but this most likely puts the kybosh on that. Gonna have to work on a plan to acquite another EU citizenship I think. Assuming the worst.

Hopefully have a sizeable chunk of work coming up in Scandinavia, might try and plan something around that.

What's happened to you, Sir? I thought you hated the EU and its institution? I always knew you are genuinely a nice person than how your posts portray you. You don't the value of what you have until it's gone. You can't always have things the way you want them. Life is not perfect.

British Citizenship comes with lots of security and other problems.

After seeing what Farage did with British passport on TV, which was seen over the world, i am not sure the British Passport is worth much.

Irish Passport is the best to have, due to their tolerance and policy of neutrality.

lurli wrote: What's happened to you, Sir? I thought you hated the EU and its institution? I always knew you are genuinely a nice person than how your posts portray you. You don't the value of what you have until it's gone. You can't always have things the way you want them. Life is not perfect.

Not at all, I am pro-EU, always have been. I'm a staunch socialist too, though I rather regret Labour have done nothing much campaign-wise in this referendum, I rather suspect Mr Corbyn is glad we've brexited. I was a member of GPGB (Communist Party of Great Britain) in the late 70's (or early 80's can't remember) but I'd got rather embroiled in Russian Literature and Language and went all Soviet.

I am a nice bloke, just I'm a massive cynic, extremely sarcastic, and entering my curmudgeonly phrase, and enjoying every minute of my Victor Meldrew years! I also have sledgehammer wit which amuses one or two on here (I get PMs!!) but which probably annoys everyone else for which apologise once here and only once.

To end I would just like to say Farage is an über-dick.

Obie wrote: Irish Passport is the best to have, due to their tolerance and policy of neutrality.

Apart from blowing up some of my friends in the 70's.....

Wanderer wrote:I'm British born and bred and I'm actively looking to relocate to mainland EU now, was my plan to retire in a Germanic country but this most likely puts the kybosh on that. Gonna have to work on a plan to acquite another EU citizenship I think. Assuming the worst.

Hopefully have a sizeable chunk of work coming up in Scandinavia, might try and plan something around that.

OMG! Sounds like a kind of revenge of the black puddings and reverse invasion of the Norselands.
Scandinavia, lock up your daughters!

Wanderer wrote:

Obie wrote: Irish Passport is the best to have, due to their tolerance and policy of neutrality.

Apart from blowing up some of my friends in the 70's.....

In a state of war, one has to do what they have to do.

If your land is occupied, and you are being oppressed and denied the right of self governance, then you must do what you got to do.

Mandela was once described as a terrorist by Thatcher. But he was the one that helped prevent a facial war in South Africa.

I will not go into the details of some of the atrocities caused by loyalist paramilitaries and British Soldiers in Northern Ireland.

We cannot use those exceptional cases to judge a nation.

Obie wrote:

Wanderer wrote:

Obie wrote: Irish Passport is the best to have, due to their tolerance and policy of neutrality.

Apart from blowing up some of my friends in the 70's.....

In a state of war, one has to do what they have to do.

If your land is occupied, and you are being oppressed and denied the right of self governance, then you must do what you got to do.

Mandela was once described as a terrorist by Thatcher. But he was the one that helped prevent a facial war in South Africa.

I will not go into the details of some of the atrocities caused by loyalist paramilitaries and British Soldiers in Northern Ireland.

We cannot use those exceptional cases to judge a nation.

There was no state of war, no land was occupied in the 70/80's when I was in the thick of it. The Black and Tans did plenty of harm in Ireland before 1922, and why Britain did then was reprehensible, but in more enlightened times in the period I was in Ireland wasn't war, it was terrorism. And grown and indeed boys playing soldiers.

I'll bow out now, this is too near the knuckle for me.

I think you are right Wanderer. I can see where this discussion is leading, and I don't like what i saw.

noajthan wrote:

Wanderer wrote:I'm British born and bred and I'm actively looking to relocate to mainland EU now, was my plan to retire in a Germanic country but this most likely puts the kybosh on that. Gonna have to work on a plan to acquite another EU citizenship I think. Assuming the worst.

Hopefully have a sizeable chunk of work coming up in Scandinavia, might try and plan something around that.

OMG! Sounds like a kind of revenge of the black puddings and reverse invasion of the Norselands.
Scandinavia, lock up your daughters!

I'm off to Switzerland Monday, I'll check out the Swiss Model and report back!

I'm 55, I doubt the daughters have much to worry about but I'm up for MILF/GILF's although of course I am extremely attractive, kept all my wavy black hair, built, and have an IQ of 7883/4 - it waivers, I check it every day.

You on Grindr? - No pressure.....

noajthan wrote:Scandinavia, lock up your daughters!

A comment on wandering hands, perhaps?

No offence meant, Wanderer.

Wanderer wrote:I'm off to Switzerland Monday, I'll check out the Swiss Model and report back!

You're after Swiss models too (eyebrows hitting the roof). Oh, that Swiss model.

Wanderer wrote:You on Grindr?

Now that opens up possibilities. Are you doing a Justine Greening on this forum?

secret.simon wrote:

noajthan wrote:Scandinavia, lock up your daughters!

A comment on wandering hands, perhaps?

No offence meant, Wanderer.

No problem, none taken! Nice to have a laugh occasionally, can get a bit serious here sometimes!

Wanderer refers to my team - Bolton Wanderers. Now you can feel sorry for me....

Wanderer wrote:Wanderer refers to my team - Bolton Wanderers. Now you can feel sorry for me....

Ahhh, you can make out that I don't know or care about football. The referendum and elections give me the adrenaline. A football is, at the end of the day, a bag of gas.

secret.simon wrote:

Wanderer wrote:I'm off to Switzerland Monday, I'll check out the Swiss Model and report back!

You're after Swiss models too (eyebrows hitting the roof). Oh, that Swiss model.

Wanderer wrote:You on Grindr?

Now that opens up possibilities. Are you doing a Justine Greening on this forum?

Last time I was in CH was 2011, I still have a picture somewhere I think of my rather pathetic £18 jacket potato I ordered in Zürich Altstadt.

I went to the ATM and the smallest note they had was 100CHF, about £75 at the time...

This time it's Basel, then drive down to Bern, bit more French side but German speaking or rather that weird Swiss German, my mrs is fluent in German and struggles with Swiss German, like German for Chicken is Hähnchen, but even in German-speaking CH it's Poulet, like French. Confused dot com.

Thanks for the info. I am planning to go there for Swiss National Day and to look up the Swiss model too I may PM you some time in the future, if that is OK with you.

Obie wrote:British Citizenship comes with lots of security and other problems.

After seeing what Farage did with British passport on TV, which was seen over the world, i am not sure the British Passport is worth much.

Irish Passport is the best to have, due to their tolerance and policy of neutrality.

Its same procedure to get Irish passport for someone hold ILR?