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Director's Loan agreement and Fund transfer

Only for UK Tier 1 (Entrepreneur) points system

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marcnath
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Re: Employee receiving MA

Post by marcnath » Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:04 am

tier1entrepreneur-A wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 1:28 am
Hi Team,

One of my employee will give birth later this month, and she is not qualified for SMP, so she will receive a Maternity Allowance (MA), so the accountant has informed me that her Dec Payslip will be for the working hours until stop working day, and from January 2019 onward she will still appear on the FPS to HMRC but showing no pay for that month(s).

My questions are:
1.Does that period will be part of the qualified 12 month period for ext/ILR application, or I will need to ignore it on my ext/ILR application?

2.If at time of extension/ILR application she (the employee) has been working with me for the full three years, do I will need to fill the employee table on the ext/ILR application from day one until the application date and list all the details (i.e. including hourly rate change), or I only need to list any 12 month employment period for that employee?

Thanks in advance.

Best Regards.
1. Given that the immigration rules is about jobs, not employees, my interpretation is that you can use that period for claiming the job. There was at least one case reported here (search for SMP) where a similar case was refused but the decision then approved on AR. If you find that, the applicant had posted the AR arguments which may be worth including in your cover letter.
2. The requirement is only for the 12 months, but if it were me I would fill the job table with all the details (until extension date, I would just have one row and say various for hourly rate). You definitely do not need to attach pay documents for any period before the extension grant.
My comments are in no way meant to be advisory. I have no professional knowledge of immigration. These are based on my own experience, convictions and personal interpretation of publicly available information.

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Re: Director's Loan agreement and Fund transfer

Post by mandydeb » Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:08 pm

I am assembling evidence for a tier 1 (entrepeneur) extension application

The qualifying investment is made as a director's loan. We only have prepared accounts up to Dec 2017 and, although the accounts show the debt to the director as over £200,000, we are about £10K short of funds showing up in the business bank statement.

Can we use evidence of money paid directly to a supplier to cover that shortfall if it is clearly explained in the covering letter)

thanks

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marcnath
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Re: Director's Loan agreement and Fund transfer

Post by marcnath » Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:20 pm

mandydeb wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:08 pm
I am assembling evidence for a tier 1 (entrepeneur) extension application

The qualifying investment is made as a director's loan. We only have prepared accounts up to Dec 2017 and, although the accounts show the debt to the director as over £200,000, we are about £10K short of funds showing up in the business bank statement.

Can we use evidence of money paid directly to a supplier to cover that shortfall if it is clearly explained in the covering letter)

thanks
You can try.

But it is possible easier to show that 10,000 as Share capital which then does not need bank statements
My comments are in no way meant to be advisory. I have no professional knowledge of immigration. These are based on my own experience, convictions and personal interpretation of publicly available information.

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Re: Director's Loan agreement and Fund transfer

Post by mandydeb » Tue Dec 04, 2018 6:31 pm

thankyou so much for that advice - we will go with share capital :D

tier1entrepreneur-A
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Job Creation- Filling the online application

Post by tier1entrepreneur-A » Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:45 am

marcnath wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:04 am
tier1entrepreneur-A wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 1:28 am

My questions are:

2.If at time of extension/ILR application she (the employee) has been working with me for the full three years, do I will need to fill the employee table on the ext/ILR application from day one until the application date and list all the details (i.e. including hourly rate change), or I only need to list any 12 month employment period for that employee?

Thanks in advance.

Best Regards.
2. The requirement is only for the 12 months, but if it were me I would fill the job table with all the details (until extension date, I would just have one row and say various for hourly rate). You definitely do not need to attach pay documents for any period before the extension grant.
Thanks marcnath,

On the online form, job creation section,
It ask about: job title, and then employee details including:
Employee name:
Start date:
Hourly rate:
FT or PT:
Is the employee still working for the company:
End date:

All the above they are asking about the 12 month period.

If the case as below:

Employee A,
Job start date at 1/1/2000
Hourly rate between 1/1/2018 and 1/4/2018 is x, full time.
Hourly rate between 1/4/2018 and 1/4/2019 is Y, full time.
Hourly rate between 1/4/2019 and 1/4/2020 is Y, PART time.

In the case above, which filling will better:

1# list all the details, start and end date and rates and full and part time period, which will mean that I will record the same employee name three times under the same job title, one for each work period,

Or

2# to make it easier for the CW , and report it as below (by only focusing on the 12 month FT with the same day rate) and ignore the other periods,

Employee name: A
Start date: 1/4/2019
Hourly rate: Y
FT or PT: Full time
Is the employee still working for the company: N
End date:1/4/2020.

Which one will be better?, I see that the second one will be easier to the CW, especially if I have more employee and not just two (i.e 10 jobs),

Looking forward to hearing from you.

Thanks in advance.

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Re: Director's Loan agreement and Fund transfer

Post by marcnath » Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:07 am

Personally I don't think it matters. Both works.

The traditional way of doing it, as explicitly instructed, is that each hourly rate change should be a separate row. So, I am sure the CWs are familiar with that and it will not confuse them.
My comments are in no way meant to be advisory. I have no professional knowledge of immigration. These are based on my own experience, convictions and personal interpretation of publicly available information.

tier1entrepreneur-A
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Re: Job Creation- Filling the online application

Post by tier1entrepreneur-A » Thu Dec 06, 2018 4:39 pm

marcnath wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:07 am
Personally I don't think it matters. Both works.

The traditional way of doing it, as explicitly instructed, is that each hourly rate change should be a separate row. So, I am sure the CWs are familiar with that and it will not confuse them.
Many thanks marcnath for your reply, it's much appreciated,

In case I will go with option 2, the start date for employee "A" will be the start date of the 12 months I intend to use (i.e 1/4/2019) or the original start of his/her employment (i.e 1/1/2018)??

Another question WRT FPS:
Is it will be required to be sent -with the visa application- for each month of the required 12 months?, or only two FPS copies, one for the month which employee had joined the company, and the other one for the last month?, or any other advice?

Thanks in advance.

Best Regards.

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marcnath
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Re: Job Creation- Filling the online application

Post by marcnath » Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:59 pm

tier1entrepreneur-A wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 4:39 pm
marcnath wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:07 am
Personally I don't think it matters. Both works.

The traditional way of doing it, as explicitly instructed, is that each hourly rate change should be a separate row. So, I am sure the CWs are familiar with that and it will not confuse them.
Many thanks marcnath for your reply, it's much appreciated,

In case I will go with option 2, the start date for employee "A" will be the start date of the 12 months I intend to use (i.e 1/4/2019) or the original start of his/her employment (i.e 1/1/2018)??

Another question WRT FPS:
Is it will be required to be sent -with the visa application- for each month of the required 12 months?, or only two FPS copies, one for the month which employee had joined the company, and the other one for the last month?, or any other advice?

Thanks in advance.

Best Regards.
On the start date, it should be start date of employment. But I don't think that is going to be the reason for refusal if you use start date of the qualifying period.

FPS is very clear - it is every month that you are claiming points for
My comments are in no way meant to be advisory. I have no professional knowledge of immigration. These are based on my own experience, convictions and personal interpretation of publicly available information.

tier1entrepreneur-A
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Job Creation

Post by tier1entrepreneur-A » Mon Dec 17, 2018 7:15 pm

Hi Team,

I would like your help to better understanding of employee/job creation matter ,

Company 1 - Job title X
Employee A
1/1/2018-1/2/2019 - Full time (13 months)
1/2/2019-1/1/2020 - Part time

Company 1 - Job title Y (Marketing assistant 1)
Employee B
1/1/2019 - 1/2/2020 - Full time (13 months)

Company 1 - Job title Y (Marketing assistant 2)
Employee C
1/1/2019 - 1/7/2019 - Part time
1/7/2019 - 1/7/2020 - Full time (12 months)

Does the above will be considered as THREE full time jobs (three jobs created)?,
Or they need to be Full time employee on the same time to be considered as three full time jobs?

Thanks in advance for your support.

Best Regards.

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marcnath
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Re: Job Creation

Post by marcnath » Mon Dec 17, 2018 8:06 pm

tier1entrepreneur-A wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 7:15 pm
Hi Team,

I would like your help to better understanding of employee/job creation matter ,

Company 1 - Job title X
Employee A
1/1/2018-1/2/2019 - Full time (13 months)
1/2/2019-1/1/2020 - Part time

Company 1 - Job title Y (Marketing assistant 1)
Employee B
1/1/2019 - 1/2/2020 - Full time (13 months)

Company 1 - Job title Y (Marketing assistant 2)
Employee C
1/1/2019 - 1/7/2019 - Part time
1/7/2019 - 1/7/2020 - Full time (12 months)

Does the above will be considered as THREE full time jobs (three jobs created)?,
Or they need to be Full time employee on the same time to be considered as three full time jobs?

Thanks in advance for your support.

Best Regards.
I think it is possible to justify it as three separate jobs - given they overlap at least at some point in time.
My comments are in no way meant to be advisory. I have no professional knowledge of immigration. These are based on my own experience, convictions and personal interpretation of publicly available information.

tier1entrepreneur-A
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Posts: 141
Joined: Mon Dec 25, 2017 2:08 pm

Job creation

Post by tier1entrepreneur-A » Tue Dec 18, 2018 8:01 am

Thanks marcnath for your reply, it's much appreciated,

But do you think that, in that case, if I only report the 12 month qualified period for each employee on the Ext/ILR application, that will be acceptable as THREE separate jobs??

As per this case:
Job title X
Employee A - 1/2/2018-1/2/2019 - Full time

Job title - Marketing assistant 1
Employee B - 1/1/2019-1/1/2020 - Full time

Job title - Marketing assistant 2
Employee C - 1/7/2019-1/7/2020 - Full time

Thanks in advance for your support.

Best Regards.

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marcnath
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Re: Job creation

Post by marcnath » Tue Dec 18, 2018 8:47 am

tier1entrepreneur-A wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 8:01 am
Thanks marcnath for your reply, it's much appreciated,

But do you think that, in that case, if I only report the 12 month qualified period for each employee on the Ext/ILR application, that will be acceptable as THREE separate jobs??

As per this case:
Job title X
Employee A - 1/2/2018-1/2/2019 - Full time

Job title - Marketing assistant 1
Employee B - 1/1/2019-1/1/2020 - Full time

Job title - Marketing assistant 2
Employee C - 1/7/2019-1/7/2020 - Full time

Thanks in advance for your support.

Best Regards.
Yes, of course, you only need to report 12 months - anything more reported does not add value to the qualifying criteria other than maybe boosting genuineness.
I am not sure what difference in makes. Is it a matter of saving paper ?
My comments are in no way meant to be advisory. I have no professional knowledge of immigration. These are based on my own experience, convictions and personal interpretation of publicly available information.

tier1entrepreneur-A
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Posts: 141
Joined: Mon Dec 25, 2017 2:08 pm

Re: Job creation

Post by tier1entrepreneur-A » Tue Dec 18, 2018 9:26 am

marcnath wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 8:47 am
tier1entrepreneur-A wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 8:01 am
Thanks marcnath for your reply, it's much appreciated,

But do you think that, in that case, if I only report the 12 month qualified period for each employee on the Ext/ILR application, that will be acceptable as THREE separate jobs??

As per this case:
Job title X
Employee A - 1/2/2018-1/2/2019 - Full time

Job title - Marketing assistant 1
Employee B - 1/1/2019-1/1/2020 - Full time

Job title - Marketing assistant 2
Employee C - 1/7/2019-1/7/2020 - Full time

Thanks in advance for your support.

Best Regards.
Yes, of course, you only need to report 12 months - anything more reported does not add value to the qualifying criteria other than maybe boosting genuineness.
I am not sure what difference in makes. Is it a matter of saving paper ?
Thanks marcnath for your reply, it's much appreciated,

It's not for saving paper, it's actually to make more simple for the case worker, so I will only report the 12 month qualified period, and ignore the rest of the employee working periods,
For example: I have an employee, working for different rates during the three year period, as well as different working hours (Full time and part time) and have maternity leave in between, so I see that it will be more simple to select a 12 months continuous working period (Full time) with the same hourly rate, and attach payslips and FPS document for each of these 12 months period (Full time), and ignoring mentioning the other periods with different rates and working hours

I can prepare a table and attached it with my application to explain each working period from the start of employment to the application date, but I'm worrying to add all these details on the online application form to not case any confusing to the case worker, as I see sometimes there was a mistakes from the case worker side with regards to job creation.

So I mean by just report the qualified 12 months period, does this by any chance will make the case worker consider Employee B and C as only ONE full time job?

Thanks in advance for your support.

Best Regards.

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Re: Director's Loan agreement and Fund transfer

Post by marcnath » Tue Dec 18, 2018 12:24 pm

When you have a six month overlap for those two jobs, it is going to be difficult for the CW to argue it is the same job - but you never know.
But even if they do, I am confident you will prevail eventually.
My comments are in no way meant to be advisory. I have no professional knowledge of immigration. These are based on my own experience, convictions and personal interpretation of publicly available information.

tier1entrepreneur-A
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Posts: 141
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Job creation (accelerated ILR route)

Post by tier1entrepreneur-A » Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:40 am

Hi Team,

WRT accelerated ILR route application (3 years), is it possible to combined two FT employee, each worked for 6 months?
i.e Job title X
Employee A : work Jan - June
Employee B : work July - Dec

It's clear that it can be combined in the extension application, but I'm wondering if it the same for accelerated ILR application.

Thanks in advance.

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marcnath
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Re: Job creation (accelerated ILR route)

Post by marcnath » Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:56 pm

tier1entrepreneur-A wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:40 am
Hi Team,

WRT accelerated ILR route application (3 years), is it possible to combined two FT employee, each worked for 6 months?
i.e Job title X
Employee A : work Jan - June
Employee B : work July - Dec

It's clear that it can be combined in the extension application, but I'm wondering if it the same for accelerated ILR application.

Thanks in advance.
Transitional arrangements do not apply to accelerated ILR.

But it is still jobs, not employees for ILR applciations
My comments are in no way meant to be advisory. I have no professional knowledge of immigration. These are based on my own experience, convictions and personal interpretation of publicly available information.

tier1entrepreneur-A
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Posts: 141
Joined: Mon Dec 25, 2017 2:08 pm

Re: Job creation (accelerated ILR route)

Post by tier1entrepreneur-A » Sun Jan 06, 2019 2:51 pm

marcnath wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:56 pm
tier1entrepreneur-A wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:40 am
Hi Team,

WRT accelerated ILR route application (3 years), is it possible to combined two FT employee, each worked for 6 months?
i.e Job title X
Employee A : work Jan - June
Employee B : work July - Dec

It's clear that it can be combined in the extension application, but I'm wondering if it the same for accelerated ILR application.

Thanks in advance.
Transitional arrangements do not apply to accelerated ILR.

But it is still jobs, not employees for ILR applciations
Thanks marcnath for your reply, it's much appreciated,

So as per my case above, the job will last for 12 months (6 months FT for each employee), does this classified as one FT job for 12 months (accelerated ILR)?

Thanks in advance.

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marcnath
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Re: Job creation (accelerated ILR route)

Post by marcnath » Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:06 pm

tier1entrepreneur-A wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 2:51 pm
marcnath wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:56 pm
tier1entrepreneur-A wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:40 am
Hi Team,

WRT accelerated ILR route application (3 years), is it possible to combined two FT employee, each worked for 6 months?
i.e Job title X
Employee A : work Jan - June
Employee B : work July - Dec

It's clear that it can be combined in the extension application, but I'm wondering if it the same for accelerated ILR application.

Thanks in advance.
Transitional arrangements do not apply to accelerated ILR.

But it is still jobs, not employees for ILR applciations
Thanks marcnath for your reply, it's much appreciated,

So as per my case above, the job will last for 12 months (6 months FT for each employee), does this classified as one FT job for 12 months (accelerated ILR)?

Thanks in advance.
Yes
My comments are in no way meant to be advisory. I have no professional knowledge of immigration. These are based on my own experience, convictions and personal interpretation of publicly available information.

tier1entrepreneur-A
Member
Posts: 141
Joined: Mon Dec 25, 2017 2:08 pm

Job creation

Post by tier1entrepreneur-A » Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:55 am

Hi Team,

I would like your advice with regards to the following:

I have two businesses, company X and Y (totally different businesses), and each have it's own account and business bank account,

I have one employee (A) has been working with me in company X FT for over 12 months period, and I would like to use him on company Y as FT (and he will leave company X and will be working for company Y only),

In case employee (A) works with me in company Y for 12 months or more FT, does this will be counted as TWO FT positions and fulfill HO requirements?

Thanks in advance for your support.

Best Regards.

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marcnath
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Re: Job creation

Post by marcnath » Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:18 am

tier1entrepreneur-A wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:55 am
Hi Team,

I would like your advice with regards to the following:

I have two businesses, company X and Y (totally different businesses), and each have it's own account and business bank account,

I have one employee (A) has been working with me in company X FT for over 12 months period, and I would like to use him on company Y as FT (and he will leave company X and will be working for company Y only),

In case employee (A) works with me in company Y for 12 months or more FT, does this will be counted as TWO FT positions and fulfill HO requirements?

Thanks in advance for your support.

Best Regards.
Will the employee being doing the same job ?

It does feel like two jobs, but since the immigration rules do not specifically define what a "job" is, HO can challenge this.

Given it is so easy to set up and close companies in the UK, if HO allows this, people can just start one company employ someone and then next year start a new company and move the person over. Which is then against their objective of creating two separate jobs. So I expect they will try to challenge this.
My comments are in no way meant to be advisory. I have no professional knowledge of immigration. These are based on my own experience, convictions and personal interpretation of publicly available information.

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