What kind of Passport do I need?

I was both in Germany. I lived in America most of my life but my Parents never naturalised me. Now I am living in the UK. I have Indefinite Leave to Remain in the UK, which I had gotten because I married a British Citizen, but we have since them divorced.

I do still have the valid Indefinite Leave to Remain in the UK on my American Passport, but now my American passport itself is no longer valid. And I am not a British Citizen.

I want to immigrate to America. But I apparently am not am American Citizen either because when I was trying to get my American Passport they were never able to locate my Naturalisation papers. I am not sure if this makes me a German Citizen? All I have is my German Passport from when I was a baby.

I am thinking of immigrating to America. So what kind of a Passport do I need then? Do I need an American passport, a German passport or a British passport?

Also, would it be a good idea anyway to get a British Passport? Because if I were to go to America to visit my friend there, I have no idea how long they'd permit me to stay there.

Because now the UK is no longer with the European Union? They allowed me back into the UK the second time around when I came here from America, because they found out I had a German Passport from when I was a baby, because I was born there. I was adopted by American Parents, my natural Parents were German.

If I did get a British Passport would I first have to become a Naturalised British Citizen?

Yes, to get a British passport, you have to apply for naturalisation first.

A lot of missing information here. Importantly:

- When were you born?
- Were you ever issued with a U.S. green card or Immigrant Visa?

Depending on the answers you may or may not be an American citizen. The fact you were issued a U.S. passport in the past is supportive (normally, evidence of citizenship is needed in order to issue a passport)- but it's not conclusive since passports may be issued by mistake.

Also, depending on if/how/when you acquired American citizenship, you may have lost your German citizenship.

HI JAJ

I was born in Munich Germany and my natural Parents were German. When I was 1 year old I was adopted by American Parents and taken back with them to America. I live d there in America all my life after that until in 2007 I married a British Citizen and flew over to England.

During the process though, of trying to obtain my American Passport, I discovered that I needed Naturalisation papers and my American Father told me that he had naturalised me, except that I didn't have these naturalisation papers. He claimed that they had burned them. So I went to a Lawyer and asked what I could do to get an American Passport so that I could go to England and get married. He told me to collect all that I could find to prove I had been living in America all my life. Like Baptismal Certificate, School Records, Medical Records, Driver's License, Social Security Card, Voter's Registration etc. And so I did that and the US State Department issued me a temporary Passport. I paid to have Replacement Naturalisation papers. They told me that when they located my Naturalisation Papers they would then allow me to apply for a permanent America Passport.

So here I was then now in England, and they sent me a letter from the U.S. State Department telling me that they couldn't find any Naturalisation Papers and so then my Passport became invalid. I did and still do however have Indefinite Leave to Remain in the UK stamped on it.

And just for more information, when I got to England at the airport they ended up turning me away back to the USA. This as before I had gotten married to a British Citizen, my Husband. I ended up getting a divorce because he was abusive. But I still have Indefinite Leave to Remain on my American Passport which is still valid.

I flew back to America and my to-be Husband flew there to be with me and we got married. Then when we flew back again to the UK the Airport Doctor looked at my German Passport from when I was a baby and she said they never should have turned me away and sent me back to America because my German Passport shows I am a Citizen of the EU (or something like that).
So anyway, I hope that answers all your questions. You can see why this is so confusing for me . I have no idea what kind of passport I need now. My German Passport is probably invalid now. And I guess I am kind of a "Citizen of Nowhere?"

JAJ wrote:A lot of missing information here. Importantly:

- When were you born?
- Were you ever issued with a U.S. green card or Immigrant Visa?

Depending on the answers you may or may not be an American citizen. The fact you were issued a U.S. passport in the past is supportive (normally, evidence of citizenship is needed in order to issue a passport)- but it's not conclusive since passports may be issued by mistake.

Also, depending on if/how/when you acquired American citizenship, you may have lost your German citizenship.

HI JAJ

I was born in Munich Germany and my natural Parents were German. When I was 1 year old I was adopted by American Parents and taken back with them to America. I live d there in America all my life after that until in 2007 I married a British Citizen and flew over to England.

During the process though, of trying to obtain my American Passport, I discovered that I needed Naturalisation papers and my American Father told me that he had naturalised me, except that I didn't have these naturalisation papers. He claimed that they had burned them. So I went to a Lawyer and asked what I could do to get an American Passport so that I could go to England and get married. He told me to collect all that I could find to prove I had been living in America all my life. Like Baptismal Certificate, School Records, Medical Records, Driver's License, Social Security Card, Voter's Registration etc. And so I did that and the US State Department issued me a temporary Passport. I paid to have Replacement Naturalisation papers. They told me that when they located my Naturalisation Papers they would then allow me to apply for a permanent America Passport.

So here I was then now in England, and they sent me a letter from the U.S. State Department telling me that they couldn't find any Naturalisation Papers and so then my Passport became invalid. I did and still do however have Indefinite Leave to Remain in the UK stamped on it.

And just for more information, when I got to England at the airport they ended up turning me away back to the USA. This as before I had gotten married to a British Citizen, my Husband. I ended up getting a divorce because he was abusive. But I still have Indefinite Leave to Remain on my American Passport which is still valid.

I flew back to America and my to-be Husband flew there to be with me and we got married. Then when we flew back again to the UK the Airport Doctor looked at my German Passport from when I was a baby and she said they never should have turned me away and sent me back to America because my German Passport shows I am a Citizen of the EU (or something like that).
So anyway, I hope that answers all your questions. You can see why this is so confusing for me . I have no idea what kind of passport I need now. My German Passport is probably invalid now. And I guess I am kind of a "Citizen of Nowhere?"

In light of all of this, Can I get British Citizenship and then be able to get a British Passport as well?

NeedSomeAdvice wrote: I was born in Munich Germany and my natural Parents were German.

When were you born? (month/year).

And were you ever issued with an Immigrant Visa or green card for the United States?

JAJ wrote:

NeedSomeAdvice wrote: I was born in Munich Germany and my natural Parents were German.

When were you born? (month/year).

And were you ever issued with an Immigrant Visa or green card for the United States?

August 1957 is my Birth date. No, I was never issued with an Immigrant Visa or green card for the United States.

I had lived in America all my life from 1958 after I was adopted until December 2007 when I came to the UK.

Just to make sure that I don't confuse anybody, this is the proper order of when events occurred:

1. August 1957 I was born in Germany, to German Parents.
2. 1958 I am adopted by American Parents and they take me back to the USA to live.
3. 1958 - 2007 I stay in America, never leaving there my whole life.
4. 2007 I start trying to get an American Passport, and find out that I was adopted. I also apply to get my Replacement Naturalisation papers, believing that I was Naturalised.
5. I go to see a lawyer and he tells me to gather together all that I can find to prove I have lived in American all my life and to show it to the US State Department, like School Records, Dental Records, Medical Records, Driver's Licenses, Social Security Card, Baptismal Certificate, etc. So I do as he told me to do and give it all to the US State Department.
6. The US State Department issue me a temporary American Passport, telling me that as soon as they find my Naturalisation Papers and I am living in the UK, I can apply then to get a permanent American Passport.
7. I fly to the UK but don't have a Visa because my ex husband convinced me I didn't need one. The Customs people at the UK airport make me go back to the USA because I don't have a Visa.
8. My ex husband goes to America and stays with me there for about a month and we get married. Then I get a Visa and we both fly back together to the UK. I am then allowed into the UK and the Airport Doctor looks at my German Passport from when I was a baby and tells me they never should have turned me away, to go back to America the first time, because I have a German Passport and was born in Germany and she mentioned something about the European Union. I guess she meant that because I was born in Germany that I didn't really even need a Visa to come to the UK. I get Indefinite Leave to Remain in the UK stamped upon my America Passport.
9. Sometime months later or whenever, I receive a letter from the US State Department informing me that they could not find any Naturalisation Papers for me. They tell me then that now this makes my American Passport Invalid.
10. The Indefinite Leave to Remain in the UK on my American Passport is still valid though now, even though I ended up divorcing my British husband because of abuse.

And so, that is where it now stands.

I'm not disputing the truth of what you are saying but, unless there's something left out, I find it surprising that a lawyer could suggest that the evidence you mention supports a claim to U.S. citizenship (it doesn't) and even more surprising that the State Department issued a U.S. passport based on this evidence. Also I'm surprised that they were trying to search naturalization records- they don't have any. You say you paid to have replacement naturalization papers issued- which government agency were you in touch with? Naturalization is the responsibility of the U.S. Citizenship & Immigration Services, part of the Department of Homeland Security, not the State Department.

You may or may not be aware that there are thousands of people in the United States who were adopted over the years but never obtained American citizenship and some of these (because they were not lawfully admitted for permanent residence) are in fact unlawfully in the United States. There was a law passed that regularized some cases in February 2001 but it's not complete in scope and excluded anyone over 18 at the time. Examples:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/so ... story.html
https://www.adoptioncouncil.org/images/ ... e_no40.pdf

If you want to untangle your U.S. immigration/citizenship status, you really need an immigration attorney (and essentially, one who is experienced in adoption related immigration/nationality cases) to find out what exactly your status in the U.S. is (citizen, green card holder or none) and advise on next steps. Do you have any evidence of having being admitted to the United States as an immigrant? For example, does your old German passport contain an Immigrant Visa? Do you have any documents showing an A-number issued by the former Immigration & Naturalization Service?

Your parents may have told you that they obtained naturalization for you- but then they say they destroyed the evidence (unusual). It could be that they never obtained naturalization in the first place. There are likely ways to search the USCIS immigration and naturalization archives but the more information you start with the better.

If the State Department have informed you that your American passport is invalid, you should not use it for travel.

Regarding your German citizenship, I believe you still have it. German law does provide for loss of German citizenship on adoption if the adoption causes an automatic acquisition of the other country's citizenship. That was not the case in the United States at the time. In addition, if you were naturalized then presumably it was before age 18 and as far as I am aware, that would not have affected your German citizenship either.
http://www.germany.info/Vertretung/usa/ ... _Loss.html

And you have Indefinite Leave to Remain in the U.K.- you appear to be eligible for naturalisation as a British citizen and it would normally be recommended to do so. As long as you become naturalised while the United Kingdom remains a member of the European Union, it will not affect your German citizenship.

You say you paid to have replacement naturalization papers issued- which government agency were you in touch with? Naturalization is the responsibility of the U.S. Citizenship & Immigration Services, part of the Department of Homeland Security, not the State Department.

________


I really don't remember what agency that I paid to get the Replacement Naturalisation Papers. All I remember was that it cost about $200.

There are some reasons as to why I believe the US State Department issued me a Passport and allowed me to go to the UK but I really don't want to talk about it on here. If I knew how to private message you, I would. But I don't see a way to do that on here.

I just looked it up. This must have been where I filed to get my Replacement Naturalisation Papers. I remember the form being called N-565


U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services

https://my.uscis.gov/helpcenter/article ... itizenship

I don't really have anything to add to my previous post that I think you need to have your entire U.S. immigration history reviewed by a experienced adoption law immigration attorney. The National Council for Adoption may be able to refer you to a competent practitioner.
https://www.adoptioncouncil.org/

Also the American Immigration Lawyers Association. http://www.aila.org/ - although not every immigration attorney knows about the specific issues related to adoption over the years.

Some of the information you need may be available from a Freedom of Information request to USCIS(green card, naturalization), the State Department (Immigrant Visa, passport), Social Security Administration (who may have a copy of whatever you supplied to get a Social Security Number) or the National Archives (records of your original arrival in the U.S.). No one agency is likely to have a record of everything.
https://www.uscis.gov/about-us/freedom- ... rivacy-act
https://foia.state.gov/
https://www.ssa.gov/foia/request.html
https://www.archives.gov/

One further comment. Keep copies of all your immigration/civil documents going forward. Example- if you were to lose your passport with ILR stamp, especially if you could not supply a copy + reference number, the Home Office may deny it ever existed. (The Home Office does not have a good history on record retention).

I was just looking at my German Passport and on one of the pages it says:

IMM & NAT SERVICES
New York, NY 92
ADMITTED
Sept 4 1958

Class to W-r

Its hard to make out whats after the W on the Class to thing, it looks like W-r

Another thing is on my Baptismal Certificate it says I was baptised in New York, NY so they must have baptised me as soon as they got me into the United States for some reason.


-

The fact you had a form N-565 rejected suggests you were probably not naturalized. However, if the application form missed out some key details, such as your INS/USCIS A-number, it may not be conclusively so. On the other hand- does the rejection letter carry an A number (A followed by 9 digits)?

If you decide to work with an immigration attorney, your first task is to establish whether you were ever granted Lawful Permanent Residence (which should have implied a green card was issued, even if you were a child at the time) in the United States. Either from admission as an immigrant in 1958 (it's hard to tell what the stamp means) or subsequently. If you did become an LPR then the next step would be to find out definitively if you were naturalized. If you were not naturalized, it would be necessary to consider what it would take to return to the United States as a resident, if that's your goal. You would have to figure out how to get a replacement green card/returning resident visa (not necessarily easy, given the length of time you've been outside the U.S. although circumstances are unusual).

There is also a U.S. immigration program that allows those admitted before 1.1.1972 to register as permanent residents if they can show continuous residence in the United States since that date. In your case, absence from the U.S. for almost 10 years could well be a bar to success but again it is something you should discuss with an immigration attorney.
https://www.uscis.gov/green-card/other- ... h-registry

Either way- you cannot move back to the United States without valid immigrant/green card status or U.S. citizenship. In addition, if you don't have an American passport, you will need a valid passport to travel (British or German).

JAJ wrote:The fact you had a form N-565 rejected suggests you were probably not naturalized. However, if the application form missed out some key details, such as your INS/USCIS A-number, it may not be conclusively so. On the other hand- does the rejection letter carry an A number (A followed by 9 digits)?

If you decide to work with an immigration attorney, your first task is to establish whether you were ever granted Lawful Permanent Residence (which should have implied a green card was issued, even if you were a child at the time) in the United States. Either from admission as an immigrant in 1958 (it's hard to tell what the stamp means) or subsequently. If you did become an LPR then the next step would be to find out definitively if you were naturalized. If you were not naturalized, it would be necessary to consider what it would take to return to the United States as a resident, if that's your goal. You would have to figure out how to get a replacement green card/returning resident visa (not necessarily easy, given the length of time you've been outside the U.S. although circumstances are unusual).

There is also a U.S. immigration program that allows those admitted before 1.1.1972 to register as permanent residents if they can show continuous residence in the United States since that date. In your case, absence from the U.S. for almost 10 years could well be a bar to success but again it is something you should discuss with an immigration attorney.
https://www.uscis.gov/green-card/other- ... h-registry

Either way- you cannot move back to the United States without valid immigrant/green card status or U.S. citizenship. In addition, if you don't have an American passport, you will need a valid passport to travel (British or German).

JAJ --Thank you so much for all your help. I really do appreciate it!

NeedSomeAdvice wrote:

JAJ wrote:
Either way- you cannot move back to the United States without valid immigrant/green card status or U.S. citizenship. In addition, if you don't have an American passport, you will need a valid passport to travel (British or German).

JAJ --Thank you so much for all your help. I really do appreciate it!

Another good idea would be to make an appointment with your nearest German Embassy or Consulate. If they cannot confirm whether you still have German nationality or not, you can apply for 'determination of nationality' which can take a little while but would give you an idea as to how to go forward.