What Proof of divorce? is needed - Please Help

[sully_06]

Hi

Im am a british citizen (male) , i was peviously married to EX wife in pakistan, Divorced Her, now just got re married to someone else March 2014.

Brief description of previous marriage :

We got married March 2010 in pakistan , Applied for Spouse Visa November 2010, Granted Visa December 2010, She come to uk December 2010, Had our diffrences Marrage broke down - Sent her back to Pakistan Feb 2011, Informed UKBA by email regarding our breakdown and that she has gone back and will not be returning as my wife if she was to, i have email proof of conversations from myself and ukba regarding this , Got divorced .

We Were never registered as married in the uk as she wasnt here long enough , I got a divorce from a UK mosque and sent her a copy of the certificate ,i also said it down the phone,

what proof do i actually need to show the UKBA for applying for my new wifes spouse visa?

Please advise

Many thanks

[sully_06]

Ok Just to update,

I went and seen a immigration solicitor , what she said to me is that the divorce that I done is a Islamic divorce and that I did it to the Pakistan law ( I sent it to the Pakistan council too) that is fine and that I can re marry which I have done BUT the ukba wont take this as proof and that I need to do a Uk court divorce , As I want to bring my new wife over to the uk to live me so I have to do this otherwise I cannot bring her over ,

As even though we did not register ourselves as being married here in the uk with our local council , SHE still come from Pakistan as my Spouse on a Spouse visa and that the only way is to do a Uk court divorce and that its quiet a straight forward simple process,

does this sound about right to anyone?

[Wanderer]

If a husband pronounces talaq divorce in the UK alone, the divorce will not be recognised.

If a husband pronounces talaq divorce in the UK and then notifies his wife and the Union Council Chairman in Pakistan or Bangladesh, the divorce will not be recognised. The UK courts have held that an overseas divorce is capable of recognition in the UK only if the divorce has been instituted and obtained in the same country outside the UK.

Seems you need to do the needful in Pak...

[Casa]

Your solicitor is correct. It's irrelevant whether you registered the marriage in the UK. It was considered legal under UK law, otherwise your wife wouldn't have been granted a spouse visa. A divorce in a British mosque however, won't be recognised as legal here.
Bear in mind that your second marriage won't be considered legal under UK law for immigration purposes as you are technically still married to your first wife. i.e you won't be able to bring her into the UK on a spouse visa until this is resolved.

[sully_06]

THANKS WANDERER

THANKS FOR THE REPLY CASA,

you stated "Bear in mind that your second marriage won't be considered legal under UK law for immigration purposes as you are technically still married to your first wife. i.e you won't be able to bring her into the UK on a spouse visa until this is resolved"

How would i get this resolved? if i get a divorce through the UK courts for my first wife would this be ok? after that would i be able to bring my second wife over EVEN though i got married before my first wife was divorced by th UK Courts but was divorced by the Islamic law and pakistan law?

i did ask the solictor this and she stated that this is fine but just want to be sure and ask for a second opinion,

So Please advise

Many Thanks in advance

[CR001]

Your second marriage won't be recognised for immigration purposes because at the time of your second marriage, you were not free/divorced to be able to re-marry because you were still married to your first wife. You will therefore have a second marriage certificate which pre-dates a divorce decree absolute.

[Casa]

Or you can apply for a fiance visa and marry here within 6 months. After the wedding she would have to apply for a FLR(M) visa

[sully_06]

THANKS for the replys!

CR001 - you wrote "Your second marriage won't be recognised for immigration purposes because at the time of your second marriage, you were not free/divorced to be able to re-marry because you were still married to your first wife. You will therefore have a second marriage certificate which pre-dates a divorce decree absolute"

So how can my solicitor say that this is fine , after i get my get my Divorce decree Absolute that i can apply for my second wifes spouse visa?

She said on the lines of as a muslim i can have 2 wifes (in pakistan) BUT i can only live with 1 of them in the uk so this is why i need to get the absolute to my first wife so i can apply to bring my second wife over?

Please can someone give me some advice as i am totally lost now on what to do and weather the solicitor knows what they are talking about or not ?

[Amber]

If a husband pronounces talaq divorce in the UK alone, the divorce will not be recognised.

If a husband pronounces talaq divorce in the UK and then notifies his wife and the Union Council Chairman in Pakistan or Bangladesh, the divorce will not be recognised. The UK courts have held that an overseas divorce is capable of recognition in the UK only if the divorce has been instituted and obtained in the same country outside the UK.

I do not like the way you say you 'sent her back' and 'divorced over the phone'. Seems a lack of respect for women.

[sully_06]

Sorry Amber if thats the way that it came across but its not ment like that!

She went back on her own accord as she loved somone else in pakistan , me and my family caught her on the phone to another boy in pakistan when we confrunted her and the boy on the phone she then told us the truth and wanted to go back, a year later she has married that guy in (2012) , so i have plenty of respect for women as i didnt force her to do anything and i hapily gave her the options to stay or go etc, This is why our marriage didnt work in the uk , i ment i sent her back in the sence that i paid for her flight back and i got her back home,

Secondly i did not know that people know about TALAQ divorces so hence why to make people have a better understanding in what i am saying so thats why i said " Over the Phone Divorce"

So please dont take it the wrong way

[Wanderer]

Sorry Amber if thats the way that it came across but its not ment like that!

She went back on her own accord as she loved somone else in pakistan , me and my family caught her on the phone to another boy in pakistan when we confrunted her and the boy on the phone she then told us the truth and wanted to go back, a year later she has married that guy in (2012) , so i have plenty of respect for women as i didnt force her to do anything and i hapily gave her the options to stay or go etc, This is why our marriage didnt work in the uk , i ment i sent her back in the sence that i paid for her flight back and i got her back home,

Secondly i did not know that people know about TALAQ divorces so hence why to make people have a better understanding in what i am saying so thats why i said " Over the Phone Divorce"

So please dont take it the wrong way

For my own education and not really relevant but would she have needed a divorce to marry in Pak and would that not mean you are divorced too?

Or would she not need to - I am aware Islam allows a man several wives but do those wives have to be free to marry, i.e. not already married?

[sully_06]

I did the divorce to the pakistan law and to the islamic law which is below BUT this is not reconised in the uk , so she was free to marry and i was free to marry aswell

If a husband pronounces talaq divorce in the UK and then notifies his wife and the Union Council Chairman in Pakistan or Bangladesh, the divorce will not be recognised. The UK courts have held that an overseas divorce is capable of recognition in the UK only if the divorce has been instituted and obtained in the same country outside the UK.[/quote]

So please can anyone advise me further please?

[Amber]

If you're not divorced then your marriage won't be recognised in the UK. Getting a recognised divorce then marrying may be your only answer.

If your wife was unfaithful then best to get rid. The way it came across was like chattel.

[sully_06]

Thanks amber!

mean while I dropped my solictor a email which included :

Ok a thought come to my mind , if I do the UK Decree Absolute Divorce then the Immigration will not recognise my second marriage anyway because at the time of my second marriage, I was not free/divorced to be able to re-marry because I were still married to my first wife as they do not accept Islamic divorces , I will therefore have a second marriage certificate which pre-dates a divorce decree absolute? How does this work

She gave me a call and she explained to me that i can can marry 4 wifes as a muslim (i already know this) BUT what i cannot do here in the uk is that i cannot do a marriage registration to more that 1 wife here in the uk and that i cannot legally live with more that 1 wife in the uk - so this is why we need the Absolute to free me from my first wife here in to uk to show that i am free and i have compiled to the rules to bring my second wife to the uk and to live with my second wife ? And that i will have a Nikka Nama that was done before the Absolute BUT there is no restrictions to me marrying my second wife outside of the uk ? And this is not a problem at all

So i really dont know what info to go off , i am completely lost at the moment!!

[Amber]

See also, Is the marriage valid in the UK? (Click) and SET14 - Polygamous / potential polygamous marriages (click).

Note: No person domiciled in any part of the UK has the capacity to enter into a polygamous marriage. Section 11(d) of the Matrimonial Causes Act 1973 is the authority regarding a party domiciled in England and Wales. The Act states that a marriage is not polygamous if at its inception neither party has any spouse additional to the other. There is corresponding legislation for Scotland and for Northern Ireland.

[Wanderer]

Surely if you married in Pak, and presumably your ex-wife divorced you in Pak in order to re-marry, then you are free to marry?

Although I am reading that talaq divorce is not recognised in UK even if performed in Pak, so did your ex-wife do that or did she divorce you formally via court?

[Amber]

A Talaq divorce can be recognised, however, the OP did it in the UK which is not recognised. The OP is domiciled in the UK which prevents polygamy.

[sully_06]

Amber -thanks But i really cant make sensce of any of those links you sent me , i dont know what it means please if you could just tell me in basic and simple words, i really cant think at the moment i feel so deppressed.

Wanderer - i devorced my EX wife in pakistan - as i sent the Union council my devorce papers and told them about it

[Wanderer]

A Talaq divorce can be recognised, however, the OP did it in the UK which is not recognised. The OP is domiciled in the UK which prevents polygamy.

But what I'm saying is the ex wife will also have divorced in Pak in order to remarry surely?

[Amber]

A Talaq divorce can be recognised, however, the OP did it in the UK which is not recognised. The OP is domiciled in the UK which prevents polygamy.

But what I'm saying is the ex wife will also have divorced in Pak in order to remarry surely?

The UK Talaq may be recognised in Pakistan.

[sully_06]

Amber Please can you advise

what is the best thing to do in my situation ? i dont understand the links you have posted in the previous post

[Amber]

You should follow your solicitors advice. If you are not happy then seek further professional advice. Call a solicitor and ask for free 10 mins on the phone and explain the situation.

[sully_06]

Thanks amber,

I have seeked solictors advice i went on monday afternoon and i paid them £50 for the advice, as i had a couple of issues

what she said is that i need to do the UK court absolute decree divorce , and that as i got married before my uk absolute its fine as a muslim i can marry 4 times and that this isnt a issue - So people on this forum are telling me diffrent that i cant marry before a proper settled uk divorve and the solictor is telling me diffrent so i really dont know whom to take advice from and the ,

Second issue is i have a part time second job - i pay tax on it and get wage slips etc BUT they pay me cash rather than in the bank, people on this forum said that i need to show it in my bank or i need to put it in my bank - The solictor said this is no issue as long as my employer writes a letter that i get paid cash.

so i really dont know were to turn , i am really lost

[Amber]

The gross amount of any cash income may be used in meeting the financial requirement, where the correct tax has been paid on that income and where all the relevant evidential
requirements in Appendix FM-SE are met. So, for example, where a person‟s wage slips 24 show their gross cash income and the tax paid, and their specified bank statements show all
of that post - tax income, they can count the gross amount of the cash income shown on the wage slips towards the financial requirement. But, where that person‟s specified bank statements only show a proportion of that post-tax income, only the amount shown on the bank statements can be counted towards the financial requirement.

Ask the 'solicitor' to show where in either Annex FM 1.7 or Appendix FM-SE it states that bank statements are not required and only an employer letter would suffice? Also, having multiple wife's is not acceptable for a person domiciled in the UK as per the link below. To me, that would indicate you'd need to remarry when you've divorced in the UK. However, I did suggest you speak to another solicitor, preferably a Level 3 OISC or Law Society Accredited advisor.

[Casa]

This problem comes up often and Amber is correct when she says you will need to re-marry once your UK divorce is finalised. However, it would be difficult to re-marry in your second wife's home country as under Islamic and local law there your marriage is recognised. This is why I've suggested you apply for a fiance visa after finalising your divorce and marry within 6 months of her arrival here under UK law. Bear in mind that a marriage in a UK mosque will not be recognised unless it is legally registered to perform marriages and very few are.
The solicitor has given you poor advice and doesn't appear to understand the legality of marriage for a Muslim residing in the UK.