Do I have everything?

[Retify]

I am flying out to South Africa a week on Sunday to meet with my girlfriend and apply for her visa. We have not done it before and I am in the process of getting all of the necessary documentation together and believe that I have it all, but my worst fear is overlooking something that is back in the UK and then having to wait to get it to her. Am I right in saying that we meet all criteria based on what I have:

My current income is £19,000 pa salary + overtime. I have 12 months worth of wage slips with a total income around £22,000, with income around £24,000 pa over the last 6 months. I also have my signed contract from when I started this position. Income criteria met.

She is getting her TB test done on 22nd Sep. Assuming she is clear, that is TB test met.

Although English is her main language she will have to take an IELTS A1 test because of being from SA. She is taking that test on 25th Sep. Again assuming she passes, that is English requirement met.

She has her passport as proof of ID (with 1 page clear for visa). I have my passport, drivers licence, birth certificate for proof of ID and British citizenship. These will both prove that we meet the age requirements as well as ID.

I am living with my sister at the moment. She owns the house and it will be here that we are staying. We have all of the mortgage and land paperwork and a signed declaration from her that she agrees for us to stay there. I also have bank statements and a signed declaration from my sister that I pay £400 per month to stay there. After salary that leaves around £830 on a normal month just salary, no overtime. That is proof that I have the means to support us both.

We have been together since April 2013. I have photographs from when I last went to South Africa in 2013 with her, will have photographs of being with her again in a couple of weeks, Facebook and Skype conversations, signed declarations from my parents, sister, some of my friends, some of her friends and some of my work colleagues that they are aware of our relationship and that we have been together since the start of 2013. That should be proof of the relationship.

I am going to be paying for the NHS healthcare and visa when I am over there, so that is the actual fees taken care of.


Have I missed anything out or is there something that would be advisable to include as well as what I already have?

Many thanks in advance for even taking the time to read this.

[Casa]

Last 6 months of bank statements - if online statements, copies should be stamped and signed by the issuing bank.
Letter from your employer on headed paper confirming the terms of your employment and your salary. (in addition to your contract).

[CR001]

Which visa are you planning to apply for?

Fiance visa, unmarried partner visa or are you getting married in South African and applying for a spouse visa?

[Retify]

Thank you very much for the advice guys

Casa, what is the purpose of the bank statements? Just as additional proof that what I am claiming is my income and expenditure is correct?


CR001, sorry I should have said, it will be for an unmarried partner visa

[pentatonic]

We have been together since April 2013. I have photographs from when I last went to South Africa in 2013 with her, will have photographs of being with her again in a couple of weeks, Facebook and Skype conversations, signed declarations from my parents, sister, some of my friends, some of her friends and some of my work colleagues that they are aware of our relationship and that we have been together since the start of 2013. That should be proof of the relationship.

CR001, sorry I should have said, it will be for an unmarried partner visa

For the unmarried partner category you need a proof of cohabitation in the form of utility bills / bank statements / official letters / tenancy agreements, either in joint names or separately but sent to the same address, spanned over the entire two-year period prior to the date of application.

The conversation logs or friend/family statements won't count at all, as I understand it. Be careful or your partner might risk losing her fees and having a refusal record.

[Retify]

I spoke on the phone to the home office a few months back when we were starting to plan and were told that it meant in a relationship rather than living together since when you enter into a relationship while living apart you obviously aren't physically together straight away.

Is there crossed wires somewhere and I have misunderstood? If so for her to live here, and preferably be able to work too, what visa would it therefore be since from what you are saying, we do not qualify some the system does not accept long distance relationships as a thing!?

[noajthan]

I spoke on the phone to the home office a few months back when we were starting to plan and were told that it meant in a relationship rather than living together since when you meet apart you obviously aren't physically together straight away.

Is there crossed writes somewhere and I have misunderstood? If so for her to live here, and preferably be able to work too, what visa would it therefore be since from what you are saying, we do not qualify some the system does not accept long distance relationships as a thing!?

HO helpline is notoriously unreliable.

There is no gf/bf type of visa available in the UK immigration system.

Options are fiancee visa or marry in-country unless you can relocate abroad.

Otherwise applicant would have to come to UK for work or study; a Visitor visa is a definite no-go for a relationship.

Good luck.

[Retify]

Well how can you be coinhabiting for 2 years if there is no visa for it? The words are living together in a relationship for two years which seems open to interpretation, either physically together, or living in a mutual relationship with each other.

It seems utterly crazy that the option is marry or tough, and this is the first time in the months of researching that I have been told that is the case.

We are both under 31, would she potentially be eligible for tier 5 youth mobility visa instead? It would get her here, we would be coinhabiting, and at the end could apply for family visa.

Many thanks again for the help and advice so far

[Wanderer]

I spoke on the phone to the home office a few months back when we were starting to plan and were told that it meant in a relationship rather than living together since when you enter into a relationship while living apart you obviously aren't physically together straight away.

Is there crossed wires somewhere and I have misunderstood? If so for her to live here, and preferably be able to work too, what visa would it therefore be since from what you are saying, we do not qualify some the system does not accept long distance relationships as a thing!?

'Fraid not mate,you've totally misunderstood, my partner and I got a UPV and the terms are quite strict and you have to 100% tick all the boxes, the most basic being 24 months of cohab as man and wife. We did this while she was on student visa, then PSW visa here in UK.

There is no leeway for this visa, or the floodgates would be open if you think about it - some sort of proven commitment is required in lieu for a marriage.

Your only options are :

Marriage

Fiancee (marry with 6 months)

Student visa (vvv expensive - £x0,000)

Work Permit - is she highly skilled or does she have a shortage skill?

Ancestry - does she have UK born British Gramps?

[Wanderer]

Well how can you be coinhabiting for 2 years if there is no visa for it? The words are living together in a relationship for two years which seems open to interpretation, either physically together, or living in a mutual relationship with each other.

Like we did - on student/work visas, not open to interpretation, the rules are quite clear.

[Wanderer]

We are both under 31, would she potentially be eligible for tier 5 youth mobility visa instead? It would get her here, we would be coinhabiting, and at the end could apply for family visa.

"You can apply for a Tier 5 (Youth Mobility Scheme) visa if you:

want to live and work in the UK for up to 2 years
are aged 18 to 30"

Plus SA isn't 'on the list'....

[Retify]

Well oh dear, this is a fairly hefty spanner in the works... My genuine thanks good out to all of you for your advice and help, you have saved me a lot of time, energy and money, even if it confirms the worst possible outcome!!

[Wanderer]

Well oh dear, this is a fairly hefty spanner in the works... My genuine thanks good out to all of you for your advice and help, you have saved me a lot of time, energy and money, even if it confirms the worst possible outcome!!

Try the Ancestry option - one Brit gramp. out of four would swing it! Or possibly Dutch if she's Afrikaner, thought that would need some Dutchies to help us with Dutch immigration Law...

[noajthan]

Well how can you be coinhabiting for 2 years if there is no visa for it? The words are living together in a relationship for two years which seems open to interpretation, either physically together, or living in a mutual relationship with each other.

It seems utterly crazy that the option is marry or tough, and this is the first...

Many thanks again for the help and advice so far

You cannot unless both parties are in UK.

There is no UK visa to support a long-distance relationship.

In my case we endured 3 years of long-distance interspersed with fleeting visits when my work trips took me near the right country. It tests the relationship through & through though.

[Retify]

Well oh dear, this is a fairly hefty spanner in the works... My genuine thanks good out to all of you for your advice and help, you have saved me a lot of time, energy and money, even if it confirms the worst possible outcome!!

Try the Ancestry option - one Brit gramp. out of four would swing it! Or possibly Dutch if she's Afrikaner, thought that would need some Dutchies to help us with Dutch immigration Law...

She is an Afrikaner, so it is possible but unlikely. How would that work in theory, apply for a Dutch ancestry visa to claim citizenship, then move to the UK on the EU open borders?

[Wanderer]

Well oh dear, this is a fairly hefty spanner in the works... My genuine thanks good out to all of you for your advice and help, you have saved me a lot of time, energy and money, even if it confirms the worst possible outcome!!

Try the Ancestry option - one Brit gramp. out of four would swing it! Or possibly Dutch if she's Afrikaner, thought that would need some Dutchies to help us with Dutch immigration Law...

She is an Afrikaner, so it is possible but unlikely. How would that work in theory, apply for a Dutch ancestry visa to claim citizenship, then move to the UK on the EU open borders?

Yes, if the Dutch have such a visa, I'm afraid it's out of my sphere of knowledge, and most of us really - might be worth posting in the European sub-forum...

I'd imagine it's a five year path to citizenship - seems to be the norm in EU, but it's something positive at least!

Took us 12 years due to not wanting to marry for visa, and cost us at least 50k over that time in fees/uni/setbacks, this is not an easy path but not a boring one.

[noajthan]

Re Dutch ancestry, as usual the forum is your friend...

Not so promising:
http://www.immigrationboards.com/europe ... 18709.html

Maybe...
http://www.immigrationboards.com/europe ... 10852.html

Obviously it's early days, but otherwise if you're contemplating Europe, get married, relocate (both of you) to an EU country and shoot for the Surinder Singh route back to the UK;
ie work under EU rules rather than the UK's restrictive and financially burdening Immigration Regulations.

[Retify]

I have spoken to my other half today and also done some additional research.

We have agreed that marriage is not an option right now (mutually thankfully!), she does not have necessary skills for a work visa, and is not currently studying in the traditional sense. She is self teaching languages, as she has been over the last year, with a view to working in teaching and translation.

As a result of all of that, we would not qualify for other visas that require us to be living together.

We have agreed on another option, which is her coming on a visitors visa to "test the waters" living together. She is still studying anyway, the only downside is she is not able to work as well which she wanted to, but that is not a problem because I am more than able to support her financially.

At the end of the visitors visa when she goes back to SA, if she is now fully qualified to be become an interpreter/teacher, work visa sorted, otherwise if we decide that we are able to put up with each other living together, always being together, and we feel the same as when we are apart, a marriage visa would not be off the table.


My main concern with that route, and my apologies if this is the wrong place to ask, I did not want to double post in general if it is frowned upon, is where it states:

Your visa may be cancelled and you may get a long-term ban on visiting if your travel history shows you’re repeatedly living in the UK for extended periods.

What counts as repeatedly living in the UK for extended periods? What is the maximum amount of time in a set period that is not viewed as "playing the system"? We want everything to remain above board. Although she will be living with me for the period of the visa, until she gets a permanent visa her main place of residence will still be back in SA until we get a permanent solution, her current home is not going anywhere. With that being said though, mostly for cost when she does come she will be staying for as long as possible; staying for 6 months and paying for 2 flights and domestic travel; is obviously cheaper than two 3 months stints and paying for 4 flights and domestic travel!

[Wanderer]

The general 'rule' is 6 months in every 12, but the real test is 'genuine visitor' - hard to quantify. Put it this way, if they found lease agreements, bills addressed to her at your address, it points to living not visiting.

Also Im afraid you may have underestimated how difficult it is to get a work visa, my better half is an interpreter, it's a four year degree course on top of any language skills, and she ended up on a PSW visa (gone now) in an unrelated field as interpreting (usually) doesn't meet the salary levels to qualify for a work permit (£35,000 I think). Plus you need a sponsor to apply and process the visa. Entry level terps and translators are about the £12k mark.

Not an easy game this, took us 12 years and about £50k all told, and it was much easier then!

[Retify]

The general 'rule' is 6 months in every 12, but the real test is 'genuine visitor' - hard to quantify. Put it this way, if they found lease agreements, bills addressed to her at your address, it points to living not visiting.

Also Im afraid you may have underestimated how difficult it is to get a work visa, my better half is an interpreter, it's a four year degree course on top of any language skills, and she ended up on a PSW visa (gone now) in an unrelated field as interpreting (usually) doesn't meet the salary levels to qualify for a work permit (£35,000 I think). Plus you need a sponsor to apply and process the visa. Entry level terps and translators are about the £12k mark.

Not an easy game this, took us 12 years and about £50k all told, and it was much easier then!

There would be no bills, I am supporting her financially and all the rest of it. If it is max 6 months then the whole visit for 6 months to see how the relationship changes with the lack of distance, if all is as good as we hope then take the marriage route since we meet all requirements for it.

The alternative now is to just go down the Surinder Singh route, which despite uprooting myself seems like the easiest option. I hate even mentioning something that is "cheating" the system, but when a national has to leave the country to be able to get family into the country, it appears fairly obvious that the entire system does a better job punishing those trying to get here legitimately than it's intended purpose of simply controlling numbers...

=EDIT=

And again, honestly you have my most sincere thanks for carrying on coming back and helping, even if it is a bleak picture, it is an immense help

[Casa]

Just bear in mind that the Surinder Singh route doesn't provide a route for unmarried partners. If your girlfriend decides to apply for a visitor visa, in order to be successful she will need to submit strong evidence of reasons to return to SA. She should declare your relationship in her application to avoid it coming back to bite her if she later needs to submit proof of an existing relationship for a spouse or fiance visa.
As you've already been advised, a UPV is for couples who have been living together in a relationship 'akin to marriage' for a minimum of 2 years, with documented supporting evidence, joint address, shared finances etc.

[Retify]

Just bear in mind that the Surinder Singh route doesn't provide a route for unmarried partners. If your girlfriend decides to apply for a visitor visa, in order to be successful she will need to submit strong evidence of reasons to return to SA. She should declare your relationship in her application to avoid it coming back to bite her if she later needs to submit proof of an existing relationship for a spouse or fiance visa.
As you've already been advised, a UPV is for couples who have been living together in a relationship 'akin to marriage' for a minimum of 2 years, with documented supporting evidence, joint address, shared finances etc.

As I said, we want to keep everything above board. She will be going back at the end of the 6 months but I highly doubt that our word for that is enough. What sort of things contribute towards "strong evidence"? I have read through supporting documents and it specifically says not to include things like flight bookings, so even if we were to book flights here and the return at the same time it would not count. Would simply stating the honest reasons for her being here be enough, and to spell out exactly what we envision that time together is for and how we intend to use it?


On a longer term, all signs are pointing towards marriage being the only realistic option. The only other potential alternative that I can see would be me moving to SA for two years with her to build that time together, which then raises the issues of what their visa requirements are ( I have not even began to look at that), what the chances are of getting a job as a white man, what my chances are of getting another job that fulfils the income requirements straight after coming back, and that she does not want to stay in SA for any longer than she absolutely has to.

[noajthan]

...

On a longer term, all signs are pointing towards marriage being the only realistic option. The only other potential alternative that I can see would be me moving to SA for two years with her to build that time together, which then raises the issues of what their visa requirements are ( I have not even began to look at that), what the chances are of getting a job as a white man, what my chances are of getting another job that fulfils the income requirements straight after coming back, and that she does not want to stay in SA for any longer than she absolutely has to.

Yes it's a hard & lonely path.
Any long-distance relationship seems to involve disruption/chaos, frustration/despair.
A rollercoaster ride of agonies and ectasies well outside any recognised comfort zone - and that's just the 'dealing with immigration authorities'-part.

If SS is out (as no immediate marriage plans) and SA is unfavoured by both parties, another option would be to relocate to a mutually-acceptable 3rd country (English speaking or not).

Go to Philippines: set up an import/export business or internet cafe or Japanese motorbike dealership or train as a dive instructor.
Buy a van & drive the Silk Road.
Go to Japan/Korea/Taiwan/China & teach EFL.
Think of it as a joint gap-year & go from there.

[McQueen]

Hi All,

I'm new to these forums and don't have extensive immigration knowledge but regarding the Surinder Singh discussion here, it looks like a precedent was set last year when it was ruled that unmarried partners constituted extended family members.

See 'Which family members benefit from Surinder Singh?' in this link:
https://blogs.kent.ac.uk/eu-rights-clin ... g-the-law/

I don't know how easy it would be to get residence permission on these grounds just yet (as the ruling was quite recent) or whether you'd need legal assistance, etc.

I'm in the UK cohabiting with my umarried non-EEA partner and am trying to move to Ireland via my EU treaty rights (Surinder Singh).