Short question about PR from EEA National

[Nova]

Dear all,

I am EEA national (Latvian citizen), who has continuously studied and worked in the UK for over 7 years. I got English language certificate and passed Life In The UK test.

Question: Considering above circumstances, can I apply for British citizenship without any additional documents (PR card), or I must get Permanent Resident card prior to?

The reason I ask about PR card, because I read somewhere that EEA nationals automatically get PR status after exercising treaty rights for over 5 years. Plus, I found on a search engine, the following GOV link - https://www.gov.uk/eea-registration-certificate, which clearly states in one of the first points that "You don’t need a registration certificate if you: are a ‘qualified person’", which applies to my situation.

I will appreciate any advice, as apparently making PR card is a very time consuming process, and it would be amazing to avoid that waste of time.

Cheers.

[CR001]

All EU Nationals are required to submit a document certifying PR with their citizenship application. The change came into force on 12 November 2015.

Do you have a degree from a UK univeristy?

How long have you worked and how long have you been a student?

Did you have comprehensive sickness insurance during the time that you were a student?

[Nova]

Hi CR001,

Thank you for the prompt reply. I heard about the recent change, and was wondering what is meant by "document certifying PR"...

Yes, I completed both A-levels and BA degree, which is 5 years of studies in total. Plus, two years of employment (1 year during gap year, and 1 year after degree completion).

I am sure, I had health insurance (not sure, if it was comprehensive) in my latest employment, but not sure about the previous work places.

Do you think, I still have chances to get away with it, not applying for PR card?

Thank you.

[CR001]

To have your time as a student to count towards the 5 years 'qualifying period' you would have needed comprehensive sickness insurance (not NHS). If you did not, your 5 years starts from when you started employment.

You have to apply for the PR confirmation document, cost is £65. EEA (PR) is the application form. This will also be refused if you did not hold the sickness insurance while a student. Sickness insurance is not required if you are employed.

Your UK degree will meet the English requirement.

[Nova]

CR001,

That is very interesting, and rather unexpected information.

Just to clarify the situation, few questions:
1) To count my student years towards "qualifying period", did I myself need to get in touch with some external private company (insurance provider) in my first year of studies to obtain the comprehensive sickness insurance? Is there any chance, it was automatically done by my public college or university?

2) I was employed during my first 3 years of studies in college + gap year before the university. Can I count them towards "qualifying period"?

3) In the same Government link that I provided in the original post, they say: "You don’t need a registration certificate if you: are a ‘qualified person’, ie you’re working, studying, self-employed, self-sufficient or looking for work". Can I argue that I was self-sufficient or was looking for work?

4) Are PR confirmation document and PR card the same documents? If no, what is the difference? Additionally, if you are aware, can you please briefly explain, why EU nationals need to have that PR document, if most of us are allowed to study/work/live in the UK without any restrictions anyway?

Will be grateful for any information.

[LilyLalilu]

1) You had to purchase private medical insurance yourself. Unfortunately, HE institutions do not do this for you as you are covered via the NHS (which is sufficient to obtain health care, just not to get PR as you need private medical insurance in order to exercise treaty rights as a student) You may wanna check if you had a non-UK EHIC which could cover you.

2) You may have exercised treaty rights as a worker depending on how much you worked and earned, I believe it should have been around £100 a week, but I'd need to look that up..

3) I believe you are looking at the wrong link; you do not need a registration certificate, but you will need a PR card to apply for the privilige of citizenship.

4) A doc certifying PR is for EEA nationals, the other is for non-EEA nationals. I assume they introduced it 1) to make mire money off us and 2) to outsource the duty of checking all documentation submitted for PR to a specialist unit. Technically, you are not obliged to apply for such document, only if you are thinking of applying for British Citizenship.

[secret.simon]

1) To count my student years towards "qualifying period", did I myself need to get in touch with some external private company (insurance provider) in my first year of studies to obtain the comprehensive sickness insurance? Is there any chance, it was automatically done by my public college or university?

For your student years to count as qualifying towards PR, you need to have non NHS health insurance at that point in time. That could have been arranged by your university so it is worth checking out. Also, if you have an EHIC card from your home country, that could also count.

This requirement is a part of Directive 2004/38/EC, so it is a EU wide requirement, not specific to the UK.

2) I was employed during my first 3 years of studies in college + gap year before the university. Can I count them towards "qualifying period"?

All periods of employment count for the purposes of exercising treaty rights.

But remember that PR requires five continuous years of exercising treaty rights. So, if your work period was interrupted by a period when you were at university without non-NHS insurance, it won't count towards PR.

3) In the same Government link that I provided in the original post, they say: "You don’t need a registration certificate if you: are a ‘qualified person’, ie you’re working, studying, self-employed, self-sufficient or looking for work". Can I argue that I was self-sufficient or was looking for work?

Self-sufficiency also requires CSI; non-NHS insurance.

You could claim to be "seeking work", if you have proof that you were looking for work. Were you registered at a Job Centre? Do you have email trails from that period applying for jobs , getting calls for job interviews? Then you can state that you were "seeking work".

4) Are PR confirmation document and PR card the same documents? If no, what is the difference? Additionally, if you are aware, can you please briefly explain, why EU nationals need to have that PR document, if most of us are allowed to study/work/live in the UK without any restrictions anyway?

EU rules do not apply to naturalisation applications, which is purely at the grant of the member state.

I think (others disagree) that the government is tidying up the Home Office internal structure and making it easier for the naturalisation team to focus only on naturalisation rather than also knowing about EU law as well. So, you get the PR card as proof that PR has been achieved and the naturalisation team can take that at face value rather than having to go through your documents themselves and evaluating them.

Your questions above show you how difficult evaluating whether you have PR is. And it is best left to a specialised team.

[Nova]

Thank you LilyLalilu & secret.simon for thorough answers.

Let's try another way. Let's assume, my mother has lived in the UK and continuously worked for 7 years, she passed all the tests (English language & Life In The UK), and got her British Citizenship (hopefully, without PR card or documents). Would I be able to get British citizenship through my link with her?

Thank you in advance.

[secret.simon]

Not if you are over 18. You will have to go through the naturalisation route in your own right.

Why are you trying so hard to avoid the PR Card route? If you are eligible for PR, the card is a formality. And if you are not, you will have saved £1000 on a failed naturalisation application (they keep the fee even if your application fails).

[Nova]

Not if you are over 18. You will have to go through the naturalisation route in your own right.

Why are you trying so hard to avoid the PR Card route? If you are eligible for PR, the card is a formality. And if you are not, you will have saved £1000 on a failed naturalisation application (they keep the fee even if your application fails).

My only issue is the time. I am planning to go abroad for a year or two, and was hoping to get the British passport before it. But it seems that without sickness insurance and PR card, I will have to leave my plans for getting citizenship until the better times.

[secret.simon]

Both will take an equal amount of time. Even were you to have applied earlier for citizenship without a PR card, you would have had to submit the same documents and they would have been evaluated by people who would have been less experienced with EEA regulations. It could even have taken longer.

The good news is that once you have got PR, you do not lose it except by a stay of more than two years out of the UK (assuming that the UK remains a part of the EU). You don't even need the PR card so long as you have the proof of having acquired PR.

So, come back within a year and resume where you left off.

[noajthan]

Note the rules about absences from UK are different compared to computing residency for PR; eg no longer than 90 days absence in 12 months before an application for privilege of citizenship.

So if travelling be prudent & check the rules so you don't snooker your application.

[gregzzz]

Hi,

Sorry for piggybacking on this thread, but I am in a similar situation.
I've moved to UK from a EU country with my family in 2007 and joined school in Year 8, since then I've done my GCSEs, A-Levels and currently doing Masters (classified as a Home students so I get all the loans etc).

I am looking into applying for a passport, do I have to apply for the PR card first (and am I eligible since I haven't worked except for internships? only studied) and then apply for the passport 12 months later? I can't just apply for the passport now, can I?

Or does this all mean I am not eligible for anything?

Sorry if the question seems stupid or obvious, all of this seems really stressful.

[secret.simon]

If you moved to the UK with your family, you may have acquired PR as a dependent of an EEA national (your parents), if they have exercised treaty rights in the UK for five continuous years. I am not sure if that applies to the OP as s/he has not mentioned parents at all.

You can not apply for a passport as you are not a British citizen.

If you do not have a PR Card, you need to make applications in the following order;

PR Card
Naturalisation as a British citizen
British passport.

[gregzzz]

Hi,

Thank for the reply.

By saying passport I was meaning obtaining citizenship/naturalisation.

Looking at the "EEA(PR)
Application for a document certifying
permanent residence or permanent
residence card under the EEA Regulations" document https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... _07-15.pdf

It sates that

You must normally have lived in the UK for a continuous period of five years as:
• an EEA national ‘qualified person’ (worker, self-employed, self-sufficient, student or
jobseeker)

Doesn't that mean I can apply by myself?

Or do I have to, for example, get my mother (who has moved to UK with me, but I have been living away from home to study) to apply and then I would be a family member who is applying with her?

[gregzzz]

Actually I've just read the "Study or self-sufficiency – comprehensive sickness insurance" section.
So my only option is to get my mother to apply and apply with her, or because she qualifies since she has worked here for 8 years and she meets the (lack of) absences requirement, I can use her as a "sponsor"? (I am 21 btw if that matters, but I am dependent on her since she sends me money for food).

[noajthan]

Suggest apply as dependent family member from time when you were a minor 'child in education' eg from 2007/8 - 2012/13.

You should have acquired PR automatically in that way by now if your parent (sponsor) was working at that time.

[Nova]

To sum up.

In my circumstances (7 years in the UK = 2 years in college with a part-time job + 1 gap year of a full-time employment + 3 years of the university studies without comprehensive sickness insurance + 1 year of a full-time employment), if I want to get British citizenship:

1) I will have to get the PR document first.

As I haven't had comprehensive sickness insurance during my 3 years in the university, my qualifying years towards PR document will start to count from the day I started to work (1 year ago).

Question: apart from comprehensive sickness insurance, are there any other documents or ways to make my 3 years in the university countable towards qualifying period? For example: National Insurance, student grants/loans, or maybe my mom could provide some documents from her side...

2) To get the PR document I will need to spend another 4 years in the employment.

3) After I get the PR document, I will need to hold it for at least 1 year.

4) So, if my calculations are right and the UK remains in the EU, I will be able to apply for the British citizenship in 5 years.

Does it sound right?

[noajthan]

As posted above, see if you can apply as the dependent family member (of a parent who was exercising treaty rights in UK) from the time when you were a minor;
eg from 2007 (?) to sometime in 2012/13.

Note Under EU rules a dependent minor is someone under age 21 (not 18).

You should have acquired PR automatically in that way by now if your parent (sponsor) was working at that time.

Note As a dependent it doesn't matter what you were doing &, if they were a worker, you won't have needed CSI.

[Nova]

As posted above, see if you can apply as the dependent family member (of a parent who was exercising treaty rights in UK) from the time when you were a minor;
eg from 2007 (?) to sometime in 2012/13.

Note Under EU rules a dependent minor is someone under age 21 (not 18).

You should have acquired PR automatically in that way by now if your parent (sponsor) was working at that time.

I was 21, when I joined the university, thus unfortunately it can't be counted as a dependent family member.

Is there anything can be done?

[noajthan]

I was 21, when I joined the university, thus unfortunately it can't be counted as a dependent family member.

Is there anything can be done?

If there was financial/emotional dependency you can still be considered a direct family member & dependent, even aged 21+.

A child aged 21 or over ...must prove they are dependent on the EEA national sponsor (or their spouse or civil partner).

Where dependency is necessary, the family member does not need to be living or have lived in an EEA state where the EEA national sponsor also lives or has lived. Their dependency on the EEA national sponsor does not need to have existed before they came to the UK

Ref: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... s_v3_0.pdf
- see page 17+