EEA (A8) MN1 settled father (but no PR card)

[csabapalfi]

Hi,

First of all many thanks for all the answers on other posts! It was really helpful to browse through them.

Me and my wife came to the UK on 3rd October 2010. I started working 11th October 2010, was also registered with WRS straight away.

I assume we now have settled status as I was exercising my treaty rights for 5 years (as a qualified person working then now self-employed since 2014) and my wife as a dependent.

Our son was born 27th October 2014 (before us getting settled) but since we're settled now we can apply using form MN1 on the basis of my (the father's) settled status. We prefer to register our son first then apply for our PR cards after as with MN1 we have NCS to check forms and seems less complex then the PR application.

My questions:

1. form 1.27, 1.36: Date father/mother became settled in the UK: Is this 5 years from when we arrived to the UK or when I started working (8 days later)?

2. absences: Since his birth (15 months) my son was absent from the UK for 120 days. Is that too much?

3. NCS Do they photocopy all documents on the NCS appointment or is it just passport and other critical documents? (i.e. do we get to keep original P60s, etc which might be needed for our later PR applications) If not, will all documents/attachments will be returned once application successful or rejected?

4. form 1.12: Our son was born in Barnet Hospital in London. Birth certificate shows registration district 'Barnet' and administrative area 'London Borough of Barnet'. Can we just write London here or do we need Barnet, Greater London or something else?

5. form 8.8: We prefer to start our sons applications first as we can take advantage of NCS and we might apply for our PR card then for naturalisation at the end of this year. In case our sons MN1 takes ages would you tick form 8.8 just in case?

6. proving settled status: to prove exercising treaty rights what sort of documents are required (especially for the past 2 years of self employment): I have P60s, P45s, etc, bank statements proving income, is that enough? Do I need all the payslips as well? Should I send the same documentation as I would for an EEA PR application (lots). Also requested my NI statement from the HRMC but haven't arrived yet.

7. lost WRS: I have lost my WRS but emailed the Home Office and got a letter (email attachment) confirming my registration dates. Would this be enough?

Sorry about the long questions. Hoping someone can help us out.

Thanks,
Csaba

[noajthan]

...

My questions:

1. form 1.27, 1.36: Date father/mother became settled in the UK: Is this 5 years from when we arrived to the UK or when I started working (8 days later)?

2. absences: Since his birth (15 months) my son was absent from the UK for 120 days. Is that too much?

3. NCS Do they photocopy all documents on the NCS appointment or is it just passport and other critical documents? (i.e. do we get to keep original P60s, etc which might be needed for our later PR applications) If not, will all documents/attachments will be returned once application successful or rejected?

4. form 1.12: Our son was born in Barnet Hospital in London. Birth certificate shows registration district 'Barnet' and administrative area 'London Borough of Barnet'. Can we just write London here or do we need Barnet, Greater London or something else?

5. form 8.8: We prefer to start our sons applications first as we can take advantage of NCS and we might apply for our PR card then for naturalisation at the end of this year. In case our sons MN1 takes ages would you tick form 8.8 just in case?

6. proving settled status: to prove exercising treaty rights what sort of documents are required (especially for the past 2 years of self employment): I have P60s, P45s, etc, bank statements proving income, is that enough? Do I need all the payslips as well? Should I send the same documentation as I would for an EEA PR application (lots). Also requested my NI statement from the HRMC but haven't arrived yet.

7. lost WRS: I have lost my WRS but emailed the Home Office and got a letter (email attachment) confirming my registration dates. Would this be enough?

Sorry about the long questions. Hoping someone can help us out.

Thanks,
Csaba

1) PR is not the same as ILR.

Enter the end date of any 5-year period for which you (one parent) has unimpeachable documentary supporting evidence of exercising treaty rights continuously.

Suggest state 5th anniversary of starting work in UK (ie exercising treaty rights) rather than counting from your date of entry into UK.

Note You will have to submit a whole stack of evidence to prove you have acquired PR.

HO changed the rules recently to make a PR card mandatory for adults who apply to naturalise but they seem to have forgotten to apply the same rules for minor's registration.
So it seems a PR card is not mandatory in a minor's application to register for citizenship (although it would simplify things if you had one).

2) There are no specific rules on limits on absences for such a young minor.

3) All documents are copied & the originals are returned to you.

Suggest make & keep copies of the form (& payment details) as those may not be photocopied for you by NCS.

4) London.

5) Ticking the option may confuse the caseworker as you are submitting the minor's application ahead of your applications (& not together in same bundle).

Suggest don't tick/check 8.8

6) Submit everything you have (& more) to prove:
your identity, son's relationship to you, your residency in UK for 5+ years & yes, full evidence of exercising treaty rights in UK.

Include all the things you mentioned - don't give HO any room for doubt or any 'wriggle room'.

Yes, good idea to follow the guidance on documents for PR.
(You can see how a PR card might actually help here).

7) That missing certificate may be a problem as it is crucial to prove your 'PR clock' was running up until 2011 (when WRS was terminated).
Make all efforts to find WRS or get an official copy or letter.

This could impact your applications for PR too.
(if you can't prove correct registration for WRS to satisfy HO caseworkers then your PR clock would only have started in 2011 and you could not acquire PR before mid 2016).

So for now, this will hinge on whether the email you have received satisfies HO naturalisation (/registration) officials.

Best of luck.

[csabapalfi]

Thank you so much for the quick reply!

My first workplace can help recovering their photocopy of my WRS I believe. Will try getting that, too but the original copy is definitely lost. Will post an update here what NCS/UKVI said to our application.

[noajthan]

Thank you so much for the quick reply!

My first workplace can help recovering their photocopy of my WRS I believe. Will try getting that, too but the original copy is definitely lost. Will post an update here what NCS/UKVI said to our application.

Good plan.

The NCS should be able to sanity check the application too.

If there is any doubt on your proof of PR (based on WRS) suggest applying for at least one parent's confirmation of PR card first of all.

A PR application would identify any issues at much lower risk.

Better to risk £65 or so rather than circa £1000 on a failed applicion. (Especially if your son does not have immediate travel plans).

[csabapalfi]

In the end I could not recover my WRS certificate but got an official letter by post from the Home Offie confirming it. (I wrote an email to workerregistration.scheme@homeoffice.gsi.gov.uk to get that)

We submitted our MN1 via the Barnet Nationality Checking Service (NCS) today. The lady taking care of us made a phone call to confirm and they seemed happy with the official letter to confirm WRS.

They needed proof of exercising treaty rights for 5 years and accepted my P60s, P45s for the first 3 years and my P60s and self assessment returns for the past 2 years when I was self employed. We also attached some reference letters from employers but they didn't really require that.

I'll post an update here once I know more about how our application went.

[noajthan]

Good luck - we're rooting for you.

[csabapalfi]

Money taken, biometrics done. Awaiting approval.

I posted in the MN1 timelines topic but can no longer edit my post

[CR001]

Click on the 'quote' button in your timeline post and it will create a new post and update the details within the quoted text.

[csabapalfi]

Got a letter today but not the kind I wanted.

The Home Office requires more evidence of self employment (even though we applied via NCS).

I can provide everything they want except for my SA302s from HMRC.

HMRC unreachable, their website errors when I try to download them. I managed to request them via my accountant and the HMRC will post it but it can take up to 2 weeks or maybe more.

The main problem is the deadline set by the Home Office which is 13th May which is week from now.

What to do? (apart from panic and repeatedly try calling the Home Office/HMRC)

[noajthan]

Got a letter today but not the kind I wanted.

The Home Office requires more evidence of self employment (even though we applied via NCS).

I can provide everything they want except for my SA302s from HMRC.

...

The main problem is the deadline set by the Home Office which is 13th May which is week from now.

What to do? (apart from panic and repeatedly try calling the Home Office/HMRC)

On second thoughts an investment in 'confirmation of PR' card may have addressed this upfront and at least caught this early (& at lower cost).

Hey ho - we are where we are.

You are not applying for a visa or T1E extension or etc.
You only have to prove you were self-employed.
You can do this in many ways.

What have you been asked for now?

And what have you supplied?

[csabapalfi]

evidence of self employment I sent (and NCS said those are the only neccessary documents):

P60s and self-assesment return online printouts

what they want now:

* original SA302s (ordered from HMRC, takes two weeks)
* original employment history from HMRC (ordered from HMRC, takes two weeks)
* original NI statement from HMRC (actually I have one of these already I think)
* business receipts, bills, invoices
* business bank statements

[noajthan]

evidence of self employment I sent (and NCS said those are the only neccessary documents):

P60s and self-assesment return online printouts

what they want now:

* original SA302s (ordered from HMRC, takes two weeks)
* original employment history from HMRC (ordered from HMRC, takes two weeks)
* original NI statement from HMRC (actually I have one of these already I think)
* business receipts, bills, invoices
* business bank statements

You can get into the head of caseworker weighing up and assessing your case in HO guidance here:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... _clean.pdf
- see page 18+ re self-employed qualified persons and types of evidence

[csabapalfi]

Thanks, that's really useful!

I ended up sending what I have and asking for a later deadline for the documents I'm waiting for from the HMRC. Will post here what they came back with. (I guess it'll take a few more weeks at least)

[csabapalfi]

I posted everything I could and was asking for an extension of the deadline in my letter.

I also emailed the Home Office on the FurtherNationalityEnquiries email address and got a reply next day saying that the deadline is extended with one more week considering that I'm waiting for another government agency!

(Please note that I had my case ref, caseworkers name, etc in the email subject. I wouldn't expect a next-day reply to emails sent to the Home Office otherwise.)

[noajthan]

I posted everything I could and was asking for an extension of the deadline in my letter.

I also emailed the Home Office on the FurtherNationalityEnquiries email address and got a reply next day saying that the deadline is extended with one more week considering that I'm waiting for another government agency!

(Please note that I had my case ref, caseworkers name, etc in the email subject. I wouldn't expect a next-day reply to emails sent to the Home Office otherwise.)

Well you've done all you can and submitted all you've got. You're in the hands of the caseworker and the system now.
Good luck.

[csabapalfi]

Thanks all!

Received our registration certificate on 23/06/2016.

I wasn't in and the passport delivery requires signature but scheduled redelivery with dxdelivery (the company the Home Office uses) for Monday.

Thanks again!

[noajthan]

Thanks all!

Received our registration certificate on 23/06/2016.

I wasn't in and the passport delivery requires signature but scheduled redelivery with dxdelivery (the company the Home Office uses) for Monday.

Thanks again!

Wonderful news. Good to know British sense of fair play can prevail.

So now you can forget all that mucking about with WRS and selfemployment proofs and all the rest of it.

[csabapalfi]

Thanks!

I already did forgot all of the complications!

Now we just have to keep waiting for our EEA PR applications with my wife

[noajthan]

Thanks!

I already did forgot all of the complications!

Now we just have to keep waiting for our EEA PR applications with my wife

We certainly live in interesting times. How we will all laugh about it - one day.